ET Model Chain and Balls set disappointment
Correze, France
Joined: June 10, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 01:03 AM UTC
Hi all,
I'm currently building the Acadmey Merkava IV LIC and wanted to replace the poor flat PE chain and balls system provided in the kit by the ET model offering.
At first look, it is a great set with PE brackets and balls hooks, drilled copper balls and brass chain (in fact it was missing in my set and was quickly sent by the Internet shop after an inquiry). I followed the instructions and here is a work in progress result.
But, because there is a BUT, the chain is not suitable being too long. The side chains are resting on the hull top which is not correct at all.
The link measures 2mm long whereas it shouldn't be more than 1,7mm.
Now I just have to find a suitable length of chain to make some use of the rest of the set.
Olivier
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Napoléon
Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 01:23 AM UTC
that's too bad. I bought 2 of the sets myself, but haven't used them yet.
Warszawa, Poland
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Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 01:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Now I just have to find a suitable length of chain to make some use of the rest of the set.
Or, you could cut away a single link from each chain section?...
Pawel "Vodnik" Krupowicz
Professional Certified Rivet Counter.
Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
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Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 01:43 AM UTC
Do those chain sections come pre-cut to those lengths, or did you cut them according to the instructions?
And like Pawel said, would it be too difficult to cut off a link from each section?
Hisham
Correze, France
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Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 04:36 AM UTC
Some answers :
Pawel : of course you could cut a link away but this would not be accurate. ET is correct on the number of links. If you're not a rivet counter (unlike what your signature states ;-) ) you can choose this solution.
Hisham : ET gives you 50cm of brass chain. You have to cut the length you need according to the instructions. It's quite easy as the metal is soft enough. I used an old blade on my modeling knive to do so.
A quick search over the Internet directed me to some online shops specialized in naval modeling which sell this kind of chain. So I guess I can find what I need.
Jason : Which Merkava kit do you have ? If it's the Hobby Boss, could you check if there is the same problem?
Olivier
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Napoléon
Al Qahirah, Egypt / لعربية
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Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 04:59 AM UTC
OK, now I understand... it's the correct "number of links as it should be".. but since the length of each link is too long, you end up with the required number of links but not the required length.. hmm.. strange problem!!
Hisham
Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 05:18 AM UTC
Oklahoma, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 05:56 AM UTC
Oliver,
I used chain from JB Models/RB Models on my HobbyBoss Merkava 3D. The links of the chain looked like the type of chain that is found on the Merkava and I believe that I used the same number of links as I saw in reference photos. I used either the smallest or second to the smallest chain selection on the webpage. It should be 3-4 Euros per package, which should provide chain for several Merkava models.
Good luck
John
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CMOT
Editor-in-ChiefEngland - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 05:57 AM UTC
Olivier as the chain was missing from the set did the supplier send you chain from another set or did they send what they thought was appropriate chain?
Correze, France
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Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 08:21 AM UTC
Thanks a lot for the tip John.
Darren, I can't tell what the supplier did. As I also sent an inquiry to ET Model, I hope they will send me the right piece of chain as on their site, it looks different than the one I got.
I keep my fingers crossed.
Olivier
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Napoléon
Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 11:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
. . . of course you could cut a link away but this would not be accurate. ET is correct on the number of links.
I can't imagine that commissioning a custom chain would be practical, so this is probably an existing commercial product. It would be surprising to me if there was a commercially-produced chain that was exactly 1/35 of the link length and diameter of the real chains, not to mention balls that are exactly correct as well. That may be the best compromise combination that is available.
KL
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 02:59 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
. . . of course you could cut a link away but this would not be accurate. ET is correct on the number of links.
I can't imagine that commissioning a custom chain would be practical, so this is probably an existing commercial product. It would be surprising to me if there was a commercially-produced chain that was exactly 1/35 of the link length and diameter of the real chains, not to mention balls that are exactly correct as well. That may be the best compromise combination that is available.
KL
No, but the last time I used chain for model railroading (about 20 years ago) you could purchase several different sizes from Walther's. They were measured in links per inch, and there's a nearly a size for any application.
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Indiana, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 03:27 PM UTC
Looking at a Pic on the prime portal, I think they are mounted too low. If you mounted them on the bustle rack instead of below it will work.
http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/jian_zhen_wei/merkava_iv/Look at the 2 pics on the bottom of page.. Should work.
Herky.
Texas, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 03:56 PM UTC
Olivier, I think I agree with Mr. Coyle on this one. It was a bit hard to determine with the simplified casting of the turret basket in the kit, but it appears that the kit was wrong in hanging the the strips for the balls and chains below the basket, which would make the kit supplied ones too short. Judging off of the real turret, it looks like you need to attach the PE strips over the sides of the lower frame instead of hanging them from it. The strips on the sides of the turret will then be mounted in a hanging position where they were tack welded to hold them in place in a level position with the lower framework on the basket.
Correze, France
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Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 - 08:28 PM UTC
Academy could have designed the basket too "low" but the way the metal strips to which are attached the chains are designed is correct. They are welded under the basket main frame and not onto the bottom of it. For real, the chain is attached to the strip with a small shackle. ET tried to depict the shackle with a strip of PE to bend upward so you have a kind of loop. The end of it goes into a tiny hole.
I'm sure the links are too long. Each one measures 2mm and it is obviously too thin as compared to the real one.
Walther's and RB Model have 1.69mm links which should be better. I just hope I correctly converted the Walther's links per inch measures in the metric system
Olivier
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Napoléon
Buenos Aires, Argentina
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Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 12:20 AM UTC
You can see it clearly here:
http://forum.valka.cz/attachments/6928/45_Merkava_IV.jpgI believe that RB chain is the closest to the real one.
It's not too much, but it's all we got...
Indiana, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 01:39 AM UTC
I agree with you but if you look at your picture and this one.. You can see where it would be feasable to do what I mentioned. Would still look right in my eyes. the mounts for the chain are higher on the real thing. Academy made the bottom of the turret wrong. the Wide piece at the bottom should actually be where the Ball and chains mount. Try it and I think it will look right. But i am no Rivit counter.
Correze, France
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Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 03:52 AM UTC
Jeremy,
I fully agree with you. Academy made the basket lower frame too thick. I didn't notice this before. This obviously is a part of the problem which combined to the wrong sized links gives the poor result I got.
I'll try to thin down the Academy basket. Not sure if it's a good idea though as the ET part is designed to fit the Academy basket. Hopefully I won't ruin the whole thing
Olivier
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Napoléon
Indiana, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 03:56 AM UTC
Good luck to you, although I don't doubt your ability at all! Let is know what you finally come up with.
J
Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 04:11 PM UTC
Quoted Text
. . . the last time I used chain for model railroading (about 20 years ago) you could purchase several different sizes from Walther's. They were measured in links per inch, and there's a nearly a size for any application.
That's what I mean. Oliver is looking for "exactly" correct. What he got in the ET set is "nearly" correct.
KL
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 05:13 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
. . . the last time I used chain for model railroading (about 20 years ago) you could purchase several different sizes from Walther's. They were measured in links per inch, and there's a nearly a size for any application.
That's what I mean. Oliver is looking for "exactly" correct. What he got in the ET set is "nearly" correct.
KL
Maybe that's what you mean, but that's not what I mean. Nearly a size for application is not the same as nearly correct for one specific application.(Olivier's)
Neither am I talking about what ET supplied, I'm talking about what Walther's offers.
It seems that by going to Walther's site he has found what he needs. Let's wish him luck.
A strong man stands up for himself; A stronger man stands up for others.
Admit nothing. Deny everything. Make counter-accusations.
He is not Khan who calls himself Khan. Afghan proverb
Texas, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 06:31 PM UTC
Yeah, I don't think I care much for their basket...
Olivier, can you do us a quick favor and post a photo of the basket with the turret upside down? I think I see something that will be off help to you.
Correze, France
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Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 02:27 AM UTC
Hello Jeremy
here are two pictures of the underside of the basket.
Olivier
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Napoléon
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Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 - 08:06 PM UTC
Thanks Olivier, that's what I needed to see. It doesn't make this any less frustrating, and Academy's turret basket is losing even more favor with me. They did not represent the basket's frame properly, presumably because they were trying to provide structural integrity to the basket while keeping costs down. All of the ribs for the framework are supposed to be thin sheet metal, at least around the perimeter of the box, and the chains are supposed to be attached directly to the turret basket's frame. There should be nothing hanging down from the lower framework. Academy messed up even more on the back of the turret basket where the slats are, so it looks weird because there is supposed to be a solid piece of metal running across the width of the back just above the metal for the frame, and they have a gap instead which throws all of the slats off. All of this is represented in the last photo that Jeremy Coyle posted from primeportal up above. If you need any further help visualizing this, let me know and I can try to draw it out for you.
Hauts-de-Seine, France
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Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 - 08:59 PM UTC
Another option is to turn the turret from 30° , so the chains will not touch the hull
