I'm a tad confused regarding these two colors. The AKI German Colors 1945 book seems to indicate that they are both RAL 8012. My gut tells me that would not necessarily be the case.
Can anyone please clarify?
Also, a reasonable mix for primer "red" using Tamiya? I'm thinking a mix of Hull Red and Flat Red?
I have used Floquil Red Oxide and think it looks the part, but I want to switch to acrylics exclusively (Tamiya paints are readily available at my LHS)
AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
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German primer "red" and Rotbraun RAL 8012
orangelion03
Joined: March 09, 2013
KitMaker: 176 posts
Armorama: 148 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 02:47 PM UTC
Grauwolf
#084
Joined: September 14, 2005
KitMaker: 2,485 posts
Armorama: 743 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 02:53 PM UTC
Hi r.e.arance,
You can use Pollyscale red oxide acrylic....same color as
Floquil oxide red enamel.
Trying to mix your own is possible but just a big headache.
Cheers,
Joe
You can use Pollyscale red oxide acrylic....same color as
Floquil oxide red enamel.
Trying to mix your own is possible but just a big headache.
Cheers,
Joe
FAUST
#130
Joined: June 07, 2002
KitMaker: 8,797 posts
Armorama: 4,190 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 07:24 PM UTC
Ola R.E.
I never bother with 1:1 colors in RAL. In scale they are way too dark.
I mix my own Primer red from Tamiya Acrylics basically the recipe is Hull red with indeed flatred. 1 drop of black a few drops of buff to make it look older. a few drops of X22 Clear to give it the slight sheen painted metal has and to make the colors stronger. And I have it all prethinned in an old Tamiya bottle so I can directly take it out of the bottle and airbrush it. I always airbrush it over a preshade of black. The end result looks like this.
Is it accurate to RAL. Most likely not but it looks like red primer and that works for me. Can't give you any ratios since I mix everything by eye.
Hope this is of some help to you.
With friendly greetz
Robert
I never bother with 1:1 colors in RAL. In scale they are way too dark.
I mix my own Primer red from Tamiya Acrylics basically the recipe is Hull red with indeed flatred. 1 drop of black a few drops of buff to make it look older. a few drops of X22 Clear to give it the slight sheen painted metal has and to make the colors stronger. And I have it all prethinned in an old Tamiya bottle so I can directly take it out of the bottle and airbrush it. I always airbrush it over a preshade of black. The end result looks like this.
Is it accurate to RAL. Most likely not but it looks like red primer and that works for me. Can't give you any ratios since I mix everything by eye.
Hope this is of some help to you.
With friendly greetz
Robert
Plasticbattle
#003
Joined: May 14, 2002
KitMaker: 9,763 posts
Armorama: 7,444 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 25, 2013 - 11:11 PM UTC
I do the same as Faust and agree that any specific colour as used in the 1:1 model is too dark. Go with what is pleasing to your eye. 
orangelion03
Joined: March 09, 2013
KitMaker: 176 posts
Armorama: 148 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 - 03:45 AM UTC
Thanks for input gents!
What about the primer vs rotbraun color issue? Are they both RLM 8012? Reason I'm asking this is that I am tempted to paint a Jagdpanther project as shown in the 1945 colors book. Caption states it is overall primer 8012 with dg and green stripes. Am I imagining it or did I read somewhere where some tanks being painted overall rotbraun? Frankly, there is so much info out there that I feel paralyzed as to what to do. I know, I know...paint what you want, etc...
What about the primer vs rotbraun color issue? Are they both RLM 8012? Reason I'm asking this is that I am tempted to paint a Jagdpanther project as shown in the 1945 colors book. Caption states it is overall primer 8012 with dg and green stripes. Am I imagining it or did I read somewhere where some tanks being painted overall rotbraun? Frankly, there is so much info out there that I feel paralyzed as to what to do. I know, I know...paint what you want, etc...
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 - 08:21 AM UTC
I'm not sure if this applies to your kit. But, yes. Later in the war, some vehicles were painted rotbraun.
Kelley
Joined: November 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,966 posts
Armorama: 1,635 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 - 09:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm not sure if this applies to your kit. But, yes. Later in the war, some vehicles were painted rotbraun.
Sorry Matt, but I disagree. I can recall nowhere that I have seen or read that German tanks were painted overall rotbraun late war. There is evidence and a school of thought that a combination of dark green and red brown was used but that is as close as it gets.
R.E., IMHO. no, primer red & rotbraun are not the same. Without getting into a long drawn out explanation, while that was at one time accepted to be the case (and some still accept it) I'll just say that myself and many others believe the written orders were misinterpreted when originally translated from the original German. I have seen pics of wartime red primer, and it is much closer to fire engine red than red brown. Not a color you would want to use to camoflage a vehicle.
Mike
Robbd01
#323
Joined: February 13, 2013
KitMaker: 791 posts
Armorama: 344 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 - 09:35 AM UTC
Here is this link:
http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/22313-german-wehrmacht-camouflage-ral-color-ww2/
Being a gaming site... Well
But it says they are different
RAL 8017 Schokoladenbraun for camo
RAL 8012 Dark Red Primer for basecoat (later in war)
You decide accuracy
Cheers
http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/22313-german-wehrmacht-camouflage-ral-color-ww2/
Being a gaming site... Well
But it says they are different
RAL 8017 Schokoladenbraun for camo
RAL 8012 Dark Red Primer for basecoat (later in war)
You decide accuracy
Cheers
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 - 10:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI'm not sure if this applies to your kit. But, yes. Later in the war, some vehicles were painted rotbraun.
Sorry Matt, but I disagree. I can recall nowhere that I have seen or read that German tanks were painted overall rotbraun late war. There is evidence and a school of thought that a combination of dark green and red brown was used but that is as close as it gets.
R.E., IMHO. no, primer red & rotbraun are not the same. Without getting into a long drawn out explanation, while that was at one time accepted to be the case (and some still accept it) I'll just say that myself and many others believe the written orders were misinterpreted when originally translated from the original German. I have seen pics of wartime red primer, and it is much closer to fire engine red than red brown. Not a color you would want to use to camoflage a vehicle.
Mike
This was discussed on Missing-Lynx here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1231430903/Schokoladenbraun+and+Rotbraun
orangelion03
Joined: March 09, 2013
KitMaker: 176 posts
Armorama: 148 posts
Posted: Friday, July 26, 2013 - 11:35 AM UTC
The below explanation seems sensible. So I'll be using the 1945 book more as inspiration than reference
From that Missing-Lynx link:
Rot or ocassionally written as rotbraun, RAL 8012, is the red primer. Rotbraun, RAL 8017, is the camouflage color. Rotbraun, RAL 8017 is the dark brown color. Camouflage color Rotbraun and Schokoladenbraun are the same color, RAL 8017. RAL 8017, to quote T. Chory, "Today it is aptly called Schokoladenbraun". Chory mentions that method and thickness of application had a great deal to do with whether RAL 8017 appeared as a red brown or a chocolate brown. Sprayed on lightly it was "a true red-brown" but when sprayed on in multiple coats or brushed on it appeared as a dark brown. Hope this adds to the confusion!
From that Missing-Lynx link:
Rot or ocassionally written as rotbraun, RAL 8012, is the red primer. Rotbraun, RAL 8017, is the camouflage color. Rotbraun, RAL 8017 is the dark brown color. Camouflage color Rotbraun and Schokoladenbraun are the same color, RAL 8017. RAL 8017, to quote T. Chory, "Today it is aptly called Schokoladenbraun". Chory mentions that method and thickness of application had a great deal to do with whether RAL 8017 appeared as a red brown or a chocolate brown. Sprayed on lightly it was "a true red-brown" but when sprayed on in multiple coats or brushed on it appeared as a dark brown. Hope this adds to the confusion!
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