Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
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tam's T72M1
trakpin
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 667 posts
Armorama: 639 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 02:07 AM UTC
read elsewhere here that it's a DDR NVA version oob. what's the earliest date it would've been fielded? got one on the way and this turret: http://www.karaya.pl/en/sbs/0/t-72a-turret-for-tamiya-kit-sbs35004.html ,assuming umm-usa can get their act together re shipping
DerGeist
Joined: January 21, 2008
KitMaker: 735 posts
Armorama: 707 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 03:02 AM UTC
To make an accurate tank with that turret you'll need a new glacias plate as well. The Tam kit depicts an M1 which had an add-on armor plate welded to the front plate, there were only 20 or so NVA examples all with a later M turret. With that turret you'll need one of these http://saammodels.tripod.com/t-72.html
Erik
Erik
grunt136mike
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,896 posts
Armorama: 1,858 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 04:42 AM UTC
Hi Trakpin;
Assuming that you aren't into being Accurate, then this is a Good Build OOB ! But you need too check the SBS turret as its just a copy of the kits turret. And if you aren't happy about cutting plastic then I would not bother with the SPD front plate.
GOOD LUCK, HAPPY MODELING; MIKE.
Assuming that you aren't into being Accurate, then this is a Good Build OOB ! But you need too check the SBS turret as its just a copy of the kits turret. And if you aren't happy about cutting plastic then I would not bother with the SPD front plate.
GOOD LUCK, HAPPY MODELING; MIKE.
trakpin
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 667 posts
Armorama: 639 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 06:10 AM UTC
thx. about what year would that front glacis be? also, what earliest yr without cutting and with turret?
DerGeist
Joined: January 21, 2008
KitMaker: 735 posts
Armorama: 707 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 07:53 AM UTC
To be accurate, you can't use that A turret with the M1 glacias. That style of glacias was only used on NVA T-72M1's and a few Yugoslav ones as well I believe. If you don't want to cut the front of the hull off you would need to find a late 72M turret to correct the horrible Tamiya kit part. What year it was is irrelevant in this case.
Erik
Erik
RuloMxy
Joined: March 05, 2009
KitMaker: 154 posts
Armorama: 137 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 08:28 AM UTC
If you are not very concerned with accuracy, with the SBS turret you can also model a Finnish T-72 (not all the Finnish T-72 had the extra storage box). Finland purchased some ex-NVA T-72. Here is a link to a Finnish T-72 if you want to work on some of the modifications.
Finish T-72
Here is a link to an article to a command Finish T-72 that somebody build some time ago using the Tamiya kit.
Command Finish T-72
The SBS T-72 has improvements over the the Tamiya turret, especially at the frontal part of the turret.
SBS turret
SBS turret 2
Finish T-72
Here is a link to an article to a command Finish T-72 that somebody build some time ago using the Tamiya kit.
Command Finish T-72
The SBS T-72 has improvements over the the Tamiya turret, especially at the frontal part of the turret.
SBS turret
SBS turret 2
trakpin
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 667 posts
Armorama: 639 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 08:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
To be accurate, you can't use that A turret with the M1 glacis. That style of glacis was only used on NVA T-72M1's and a few Yugoslav ones as well I believe. If you don't want to cut the front of the hull off you would need to find a late 72M turret to correct the horrible Tamiya kit part. What year it was is irrelevant in this case.
Erik
that being the case, really wouldn't be looking forward to a slice and dice, I'll go with the kit lower hull and turret that's on the way, or does the A turret not belong with the tam lower hull. thx
grunt136mike
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,896 posts
Armorama: 1,858 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 03:29 PM UTC
Hi Trakpin;
IMHO I would just build the kit as is, unless you have a special vehicle that you want too base your kit on. Look at the builds that JD has posted on his Blog on building the T-72, or Go Back on the Forum and see if there is one that you like better. Also if you haven't already, look on the WEB and try too find a vehicle that you can base your kit on.
GOOD LUCK; MIKE.
IMHO I would just build the kit as is, unless you have a special vehicle that you want too base your kit on. Look at the builds that JD has posted on his Blog on building the T-72, or Go Back on the Forum and see if there is one that you like better. Also if you haven't already, look on the WEB and try too find a vehicle that you can base your kit on.
GOOD LUCK; MIKE.
trakpin
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 667 posts
Armorama: 639 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 06:02 PM UTC
yeah, I could but I'd like some kind of accuracy to be there. what I have planned for the 72 is throw it in with a Leopard1A4 as part of a minimart dio. their Normandy crossroads makes for a decent DDR rural area. see, the sovs got a bit uppity in the mid 70's and now they gotta be put back in their rightful place and are in the process of losing said DDR 
got the idea from reading Team Yankee for the umpteenth time 
looked on the interwebtubes? you're kidding right? that's more confusing than the how to model a T72 thread
got the idea from reading Team Yankee for the umpteenth time looked on the interwebtubes? you're kidding right? that's more confusing than the how to model a T72 thread
junglejim
Joined: February 18, 2003
KitMaker: 1,728 posts
Armorama: 1,629 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 - 07:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
with the SBS turret you can also model a Finnish T-72 (not all the Finnish T-72 had the extra storage box). Finland purchased some ex-NVA T-72.
Just out of curiosity do you mean they purchased T72M1's? Pretty sure Finland never had any 'plain' T-72A, only M1's; if the SBS turret is in fact an A turret it wouldn't be suitable for a Finnish vehicle.
Jim
RuloMxy
Joined: March 05, 2009
KitMaker: 154 posts
Armorama: 137 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 - 07:36 AM UTC
In broad terms the T-72M1 is the export version of the T-72A. There may be some differences which some are explained in this link.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1209626008/Overview+of+T-72A+models
Some of the T-72M1 that Finland received were purchased directly from the USSR and others from ex-NVA stocks.
I know there are differences, but defining if the SBS turret is a true T-72A of a T-72M1 is getting there to find the smaller details. We could get to discussions like this one.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1086194018/Blast+Models+T-72+A-M1+turret+-+Can+it+be+used---
In my opinion, defining the T-72 turret differences could lead to a discussion as the T-34 turret (year, factory, etc) differences.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1209626008/Overview+of+T-72A+models
Some of the T-72M1 that Finland received were purchased directly from the USSR and others from ex-NVA stocks.
I know there are differences, but defining if the SBS turret is a true T-72A of a T-72M1 is getting there to find the smaller details. We could get to discussions like this one.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47209/thread/1086194018/Blast+Models+T-72+A-M1+turret+-+Can+it+be+used---
In my opinion, defining the T-72 turret differences could lead to a discussion as the T-34 turret (year, factory, etc) differences.
junglejim
Joined: February 18, 2003
KitMaker: 1,728 posts
Armorama: 1,629 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 - 09:19 AM UTC
Interesting, guess I'll have to get Steve's book mentioned here as I had (wrongly) thought A's and M's were the same! Guess that's dated information.
Cheers,
Jim
Cheers,
Jim
trakpin
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 667 posts
Armorama: 639 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2013 - 11:25 AM UTC
that overview link is 
as hell. atleast I found one thing...maybe. seems smoke dischargers weren't added till 1980? don't recall where, but found that the A turret was used with hulls the had the added glacis armor
this might be if interest
http://www.onthewaymodels.com/articles/Modelling%20the%20t72%20family.htm
got the kit today, and comparing tam with dml, some detail on the dml is a bit better. tam has a molded on dozer blade part, whereas dml is made up of the blade and actuating arms. on the dml, however, the glacis mounting bolts are molded on and a bit undersized. turret shape between the 2 is a bit different too. the dml seems a bit larger/wider in the cheeks. in some pix I've seen, the tam turret front doesn't look all that much different. I'll see how the sbs A turret compares and if I'll use it or not. whichever way, it'll still turn out a decent tank
as hell. atleast I found one thing...maybe. seems smoke dischargers weren't added till 1980? don't recall where, but found that the A turret was used with hulls the had the added glacis armorthis might be if interest
http://www.onthewaymodels.com/articles/Modelling%20the%20t72%20family.htm
got the kit today, and comparing tam with dml, some detail on the dml is a bit better. tam has a molded on dozer blade part, whereas dml is made up of the blade and actuating arms. on the dml, however, the glacis mounting bolts are molded on and a bit undersized. turret shape between the 2 is a bit different too. the dml seems a bit larger/wider in the cheeks. in some pix I've seen, the tam turret front doesn't look all that much different. I'll see how the sbs A turret compares and if I'll use it or not. whichever way, it'll still turn out a decent tank
trakpin
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 667 posts
Armorama: 639 posts
Posted: Friday, August 30, 2013 - 11:11 AM UTC
found this in a post here:
that being the case things'll work out just fine when the sbs turret arrives. how likely would it have been for such a combo to not have side skirts? gonna put fruil tracks on it too, when they arrive
Quoted Text
First, Soviets/Russians do have some T-72A WITH the front glacis welded plate. I am not sure of numbers, but they "inherited" 100+ on a arms deal that did not complete. They would be a rarer vehicle in Russian service, but legitamate. For that you would only need a T-72A turret. I would also recomend the Eduard PE set.
that being the case things'll work out just fine when the sbs turret arrives. how likely would it have been for such a combo to not have side skirts? gonna put fruil tracks on it too, when they arrive
DerGeist
Joined: January 21, 2008
KitMaker: 735 posts
Armorama: 707 posts
Posted: Friday, August 30, 2013 - 01:11 PM UTC
Full on 72A models would have been equipped with side skirts. Only early 72's with the "Ural" turret did not have side skirts.
Erik
Erik
trakpin
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 667 posts
Armorama: 639 posts
Posted: Friday, August 30, 2013 - 10:55 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Full on 72A models would have been equipped with side skirts. Only early 72's with the "Ural" turret did not have side skirts.
Erik
thx. so, what differences would there be between the 2, other than the optical range finder?
RuloMxy
Joined: March 05, 2009
KitMaker: 154 posts
Armorama: 137 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 03:22 AM UTC
There is a long way to model a T-72 Ural from the tamiya T-72 kit. The turret shape is very different, the side skirts are different (short side skirts in T-72 Ural), you may want to add the gill armour, the front hull is different. A good start to model a T-72 Ural is to get the verlinden upper hull (if you are modelling a soviet correct the number of KMT mounts) and the modelpoint T-72 Ural turret if you can find it. Then you need some patience to correct the details to get the T-72 Ural. If it is a rebuild T-72 Ural you may get away with only needing a front hull (Sp Designs) and the modelpoint T-72 Ural turret (there is a SKP T-72 Ural turret, I don't know how accurate it is and also a NK Patriota one).
You may be better off just modelling the battle worn T-72A/M1 to delete some of the skirts, and adding the detail in the area you have deleted the skirts. You can find pictures in the internet of Syrian battle worn T-72s.
http://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/206702 - See the last picture of a T-72M1 (the first photos are ofT-72 with coincidence rangefinders with the short skirts)
Or you may decide to model a T-72A during training exercises to delete all the side skirts and add the corresponding detail (you can find photos of T-72As during the Zapad 81 training exercises).
Please consider for your mid 70's scenario that the T-72A was build in the USSR starting around 1979. The T-72M1 (export version of the T-72A) was build in the Czechoslovakia starting around 1986, and in Poland around the same time. The T-72 Ural may play better for the mid 70's scenario since it was build in the USSR starting around 1972, and in Czechoslovakia starting around 1980. (dates for reference +/- a few years)
You may be better off just modelling the battle worn T-72A/M1 to delete some of the skirts, and adding the detail in the area you have deleted the skirts. You can find pictures in the internet of Syrian battle worn T-72s.
http://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/206702 - See the last picture of a T-72M1 (the first photos are ofT-72 with coincidence rangefinders with the short skirts)
Or you may decide to model a T-72A during training exercises to delete all the side skirts and add the corresponding detail (you can find photos of T-72As during the Zapad 81 training exercises).
Please consider for your mid 70's scenario that the T-72A was build in the USSR starting around 1979. The T-72M1 (export version of the T-72A) was build in the Czechoslovakia starting around 1986, and in Poland around the same time. The T-72 Ural may play better for the mid 70's scenario since it was build in the USSR starting around 1972, and in Czechoslovakia starting around 1980. (dates for reference +/- a few years)
ubisuck
Joined: December 20, 2012
KitMaker: 461 posts
Armorama: 255 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 03:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
assuming umm-usa can get their act together re shipping
Excuse me for the little off-topic question but are you having problems with them? Because I am about to order a tool from umm and now I'm wondering if it's such a good move on my part.
Can you elaborate please?
TIA
Marco
grunt136mike
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,896 posts
Armorama: 1,858 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 01:33 PM UTC
Hi Marco;
I just ordered from them last month, and there was no problem. They were fast and very reasonable on shipping.
And too be very Honest, the T-72 Ural Turret was a Lil-bit of a let down. It seemed like a copy of the Tamiya kit part with a few added changes thrown in. The front of the turret is sloped in at a angle that im not sure of.
On the Plus side the Resin casting was quite nice as well as the Range Finder Details.
CHEERS; MIKE.
I just ordered from them last month, and there was no problem. They were fast and very reasonable on shipping.
And too be very Honest, the T-72 Ural Turret was a Lil-bit of a let down. It seemed like a copy of the Tamiya kit part with a few added changes thrown in. The front of the turret is sloped in at a angle that im not sure of.
On the Plus side the Resin casting was quite nice as well as the Range Finder Details.
CHEERS; MIKE.
trakpin
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 667 posts
Armorama: 639 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2013 - 11:48 PM UTC
not really a prob. their site isn't set up for international ordering, and since USPS upped it rates had to shell out an additional 3.10 just for airmail. inviuce was sent by email via paypal
this is what was in the email:
Thank you for buying UMM items. Your order is greatly appreciated. I'm very sorry for the delay, we have been really busy since the National IPMS show. All the international orders has been delayed recently.
Here is the latest information about your order. It is always best to contact UMM-USA when making international orders because our website is not set up for international shipping rates at this time.This is particularly important now since the USPS has dramatically increased their shipping rates. If you have any questions or concerns about the above, please don't hesitate to contact me: [email protected] .
To complete your order, please choose from the options below. If you wish, you can pay the extra differences or you can cancel your order anytime.
Here are 2 options for EXTRA international shipping: ( www.usps.com for more info)
Option 1. Shipping via USPS (United States Postal Service Registered mail) including insurance will be $15.46 EXTRA which includes a tracking number.
Option 2. Shipping via Airmail First class will be $3.10 EXTRA and DOES NOT INCLUDE INSURANCE AND A TRACKING NUMBER. In this case UMM is not responsible for loss or damage to the shipment.
this is what was in the email:
Thank you for buying UMM items. Your order is greatly appreciated. I'm very sorry for the delay, we have been really busy since the National IPMS show. All the international orders has been delayed recently.
Here is the latest information about your order. It is always best to contact UMM-USA when making international orders because our website is not set up for international shipping rates at this time.This is particularly important now since the USPS has dramatically increased their shipping rates. If you have any questions or concerns about the above, please don't hesitate to contact me: [email protected] .
To complete your order, please choose from the options below. If you wish, you can pay the extra differences or you can cancel your order anytime.
Here are 2 options for EXTRA international shipping: ( www.usps.com for more info)
Option 1. Shipping via USPS (United States Postal Service Registered mail) including insurance will be $15.46 EXTRA which includes a tracking number.
Option 2. Shipping via Airmail First class will be $3.10 EXTRA and DOES NOT INCLUDE INSURANCE AND A TRACKING NUMBER. In this case UMM is not responsible for loss or damage to the shipment.
ubisuck
Joined: December 20, 2012
KitMaker: 461 posts
Armorama: 255 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 01, 2013 - 05:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
not really a prob. their site isn't set up for international ordering, and since USPS upped it rates had to shell out an additional 3.10 just for airmail. inviuce was sent by email via paypal
Option 2. Shipping via Airmail First class will be $3.10 EXTRA and DOES NOT INCLUDE INSURANCE AND A TRACKING NUMBER. In this case UMM is not responsible for loss or damage to the shipment.
Now I'm no longer sure what to do. I simply wanted to get the:
Quoted Text
The 3D Hand Grab Bender - can make consistent bends in any size wire in any scale!
For Aircraft, infantry vehicles, trains, tanks or cars.
It can also be used for aircraft hydraulic and fuel lines.
Make a consistent bend every time in any one of 28 sizes!
And a roll of wire to make tanks handles in 1/35. If it's going to cost me more in S&H than the actual piece: hmmmmm
Marco
trakpin
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 667 posts
Armorama: 639 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 01, 2013 - 09:00 AM UTC
if you do airmail, they'll email a paypal form. my turret is one the way
You just sent a payment Transaction ID:
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Merchant
UMM-USA / Unique Master Models
[email protected]
Note to UMM-USA / Unique Master Models
Shipping address - confirmed
Description Unit price Qty Amount
Shipping - international $0.00 1 $0.00
Subtotal $0.00
Shipping and handling $3.10
Total $3.10 USD
From amount $3.35 CAD
To amount $3.10 USD
Exchange rate: 1 CAD = 0.926593 USD
Charge will appear on your credit card statement as PAYPAL *
Payment sent to UMM-USA / Unique Master Models
You just sent a payment Transaction ID:
Hello
Thanks for using PayPal. It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.
See your invoice
Merchant
UMM-USA / Unique Master Models
[email protected]
Note to UMM-USA / Unique Master Models
Shipping address - confirmed
Description Unit price Qty Amount
Shipping - international $0.00 1 $0.00
Subtotal $0.00
Shipping and handling $3.10
Total $3.10 USD
From amount $3.35 CAD
To amount $3.10 USD
Exchange rate: 1 CAD = 0.926593 USD
Charge will appear on your credit card statement as PAYPAL *
Payment sent to UMM-USA / Unique Master Models
ubisuck
Joined: December 20, 2012
KitMaker: 461 posts
Armorama: 255 posts
Posted: Monday, September 02, 2013 - 02:04 AM UTC
Thx for the info trakpin ;-)
much appreciated. Because I don't have a lot of money to spend and I have to be certain of the costs before I press the Buy it now button. I don't need surprises because once you press, you can't get out and ever since the owner saw that I had added the item in my cart at his site, he emailed me saying they were ready to ship, item was in-stock blablabla. I usually put the item in cart just so I can find it faster if I decide to buy.
much appreciated. Because I don't have a lot of money to spend and I have to be certain of the costs before I press the Buy it now button. I don't need surprises because once you press, you can't get out and ever since the owner saw that I had added the item in my cart at his site, he emailed me saying they were ready to ship, item was in-stock blablabla. I usually put the item in cart just so I can find it faster if I decide to buy.
trakpin
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 667 posts
Armorama: 639 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 11:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thx for the info trakpin ;-)
much appreciated. Because I don't have a lot of money to spend and I have to be certain of the costs before I press the Buy it now button. I don't need surprises because once you press, you can't get out and ever since the owner saw that I had added the item in my cart at his site, he emailed me saying they were ready to ship, item was in-stock blablabla. I usually put the item in cart just so I can find it faster if I decide to buy.
so, did youi order up anything?
ubisuck
Joined: December 20, 2012
KitMaker: 461 posts
Armorama: 255 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - 11:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
so, did you order up anything?
No, I finally decided to try the Griffon tool "made for this" on eBay from a Chinese seller I've been buying from since at least 2 years now. I asked him "It looks fragile" and he answered: " Not fragile but cheap" so I bought 2. I like honesty and I buy little gadget very very often from him.
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