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M4 High speed tractor (3in/90mm)
MAD_DUCK
Joined: March 05, 2002
KitMaker: 434 posts
Armorama: 406 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 11:47 AM UTC
I got this kit the other day and I have a question, I know it didn't pull the M59 Long Tom, so what can I put behind it?
sdk10159
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 556 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 12:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I got this kit the other day and I have a question, I know it didn't pull the M59 Long Tom, so what can I put behind it?
I had the same question when I built this kit. At the time, there were no 90mm AA gun kits out there. Now there is. Commander Models make a resin 90mm kit, but it's way too expensive for me.
So, what I did was have the M4 tow a captured German 88. The dio was titled, "On the Way to Aberdeen"
MAD_DUCK
Joined: March 05, 2002
KitMaker: 434 posts
Armorama: 406 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 12:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI got this kit the other day and I have a question, I know it didn't pull the M59 Long Tom, so what can I put behind it?
I had the same question when I built this kit. At the time, there were no 90mm AA gun kits out there. Now there is. Commander Models make a resin 90mm kit, but it's way too expensive for me.
So, what I did was have the M4 tow a captured German 88. The dio was titled, "On the Way to Aberdeen"
That's an idea. but I wouldn't want to steal it from you. I looked at the Commander Models 90mm. I could almost except the price if it wasn't for the was the molding looks
sdk10159
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 556 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 01:00 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextI got this kit the other day and I have a question, I know it didn't pull the M59 Long Tom, so what can I put behind it?
I had the same question when I built this kit. At the time, there were no 90mm AA gun kits out there. Now there is. Commander Models make a resin 90mm kit, but it's way too expensive for me.
So, what I did was have the M4 tow a captured German 88. The dio was titled, "On the Way to Aberdeen"
That's an idea. but I wouldn't want to steal it from you. I looked at the Commander Models 90mm. I could almost except the price if it wasn't for the was the molding looks
I wouldn't worry about "stealing my idea". If its something you'd like to do, then by all means, go for it. But maybe change it around some.
How about having it tow a captured 128mm gun?
MAD_DUCK
Joined: March 05, 2002
KitMaker: 434 posts
Armorama: 406 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 01:47 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextQuoted TextI got this kit the other day and I have a question, I know it didn't pull the M59 Long Tom, so what can I put behind it?
I had the same question when I built this kit. At the time, there were no 90mm AA gun kits out there. Now there is. Commander Models make a resin 90mm kit, but it's way too expensive for me.
So, what I did was have the M4 tow a captured German 88. The dio was titled, "On the Way to Aberdeen"
That's an idea. but I wouldn't want to steal it from you. I looked at the Commander Models 90mm. I could almost except the price if it wasn't for the was the molding looks
I wouldn't worry about "stealing my idea". If its something you'd like to do, then by all means, go for it. But maybe change it around some.
How about having it tow a captured 128mm gun?
A German 88mm or a 128 mm, I wouldn't know the difference. I build mostly modern subjects. I have no idea of what the difference in panthers are or which kit would be good or what details would be wrong in the kit.
Cobrahistorian
Joined: November 11, 2006
KitMaker: 710 posts
Armorama: 553 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 02:04 PM UTC
The Commander Models M1A1 is pretty good overall. I've got one that will go behind my M4HST. Unfortunately no other US heavy AA guns exist in any form. I'm hoping that we'll see an M2 90mm in styrene at some point in the not so distant future, but I haven't quite gotten any kit manufacturers to bite on that just yet.
Jon
Jon
sdk10159
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 556 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 02:55 PM UTC
[quote][quote][quote][quote]
Krupp produced a 128 mm anti-tank gun late in the war. It was huge. I believe Trumpeter makes a kit of it.
"I have no idea of what the difference in panthers are or which kit would be good or what details would be wrong in the kit"
Me either, as I build mostly Allied stuff. But who cares? IF it looks like a Panther... Do what I do, enjoy the build
Quoted Text
A German 88mm or a 128 mm, I wouldn't know the difference. I build mostly modern subjects. I have no idea of what the difference in panthers are or which kit would be good or what details would be wrong in the kit.
Krupp produced a 128 mm anti-tank gun late in the war. It was huge. I believe Trumpeter makes a kit of it.
"I have no idea of what the difference in panthers are or which kit would be good or what details would be wrong in the kit"
Me either, as I build mostly Allied stuff. But who cares? IF it looks like a Panther... Do what I do, enjoy the build
MAD_DUCK
Joined: March 05, 2002
KitMaker: 434 posts
Armorama: 406 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 03:06 PM UTC
Good point Steve. I think that if it comes from Trumpeter is should be a good kit. It's good to break the norm now and then. I'll start on it after I'm done with my Ontos..
sdk10159
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 556 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 03:28 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Good point Steve. I think that if it comes from Trumpeter is should be a good kit. It's good to break the norm now and then. I'll start on it after I'm done with my Ontos..
Cool. Post some pics of that build if you can. The Ontos is on my "to do" list at some point
cassshay
Joined: September 17, 2013
KitMaker: 55 posts
Armorama: 52 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 03:29 PM UTC
You could put a 3 inch M5 behind it. AFV Club makes a kit on the M6 chassis.
Mark
Mark
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 08:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
You could put a 3 inch M5 behind it. AFV Club makes a kit on the M6 chassis.
The 3 inch gun here is the Anti-aircraft gun (http://www.antiaircraft.org/3inch.htm), not the M5 Anti-tank one. AFAIK, the M5 was usually towed by M3 half-tracks.
On a side note, I've stumbled across this picture :
that apparently shows the AA gun tractor variant towing a 8 inch howitzer...
H.P.
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 09:45 PM UTC
PS : the M4 in my previous post in a postwar Dutch Army one.
You can find a better version of this picture here
H.P.
You can find a better version of this picture here
H.P.
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
Armorama: 1,239 posts
Posted: Friday, October 11, 2013 - 12:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
PS : the M4 in my previous post in a postwar Dutch Army one.
You can find a better version of this picture here
H.P.
Henri-Pierre,
Most likely, this is a combination in use by the Artillery Training Area staff in 't Harde, The Netherlands. (Artillerie SchietKamp ASK)
Being a Dutch artillery officer, I have started my carreer there. During our first days in the army, we were confronted with quite some unique pieces there. Since in the 70-ies, various types of guns were still in use ( M109, M110, 8", AAA-guns like the Bofors, etc.) we had to do 'tours' on all types, since it was not yet clear to which unit we finally would go. The school's collection was a mix of all sorts.
This habit has been in practise since decades, which therefore would allow a Dutch AAA tractor pulling a field artillery gun.
Caution: in case one would use the AFV M115, Item # AF 35S-06, in a WW2 setting, one would need Masters Productions dolly and wheels for M1 155 Long Tom and 203 mm, Item # MP35019.
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Friday, October 11, 2013 - 01:34 AM UTC
Thanks for the information Paul. "Training drill" came to my mind when I first saw this rather weird combination 
.
H.P.
.H.P.
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
Armorama: 1,239 posts
Posted: Friday, October 11, 2013 - 02:14 AM UTC
Some better study of the picture made clear that this tractor belonged to 102 Veldartillerie Groep ( 102 Field Artillery Group ). These art units were controlled and commanded by the Army Corps artillery staff. Their task was to attack targets, deeper into enemy territory and, occasionaly, support the brigade's own artillerie battalion ( each Dutch brigade had one artillery battalion ( ' afdeling' in Dutch ). The brigade's artillery supported the own infantery and tank battalions.
Since in 1959 and 1960 the heavy AAA units were dismantled, it seems likely that the tractors were, due to their technical status, re-issued to FA units.
Corps artillery consisted of 6 battalions with 155 mm M1(later M59) guns, 3 battalions 8" (203mm) M1 (later M115). The doctrine was based on US organisation and working procedures ( which created some internal friction in the 50-ies, since quite some Dutch officers were trained and educated in the UK).
In 1961 the Dutch goverment decide to purchase various types of SP artillery, one of them the AMX 105 howitser. (Based on its preformance during the Israeli Sinai campaign in 1956 ). Due to the fact that this gun was already outdated, in 1966 the 175 mm M107 was bought, together with the M109 and M110.
In 1970 the 25 towed 25 pounder and the 105 mm M2A1 were scrapped.
(Though the 25 pounder stayed for training of forward mortar and artillery observers and ceremonial purposes until 1985.)
The photo can be studied in detail in " Vuur en Beweging", 325 jaar Veldartillerie, 1677 - 2002, ISBN 90 5352 735 4.
Since in 1959 and 1960 the heavy AAA units were dismantled, it seems likely that the tractors were, due to their technical status, re-issued to FA units.
Corps artillery consisted of 6 battalions with 155 mm M1(later M59) guns, 3 battalions 8" (203mm) M1 (later M115). The doctrine was based on US organisation and working procedures ( which created some internal friction in the 50-ies, since quite some Dutch officers were trained and educated in the UK).
In 1961 the Dutch goverment decide to purchase various types of SP artillery, one of them the AMX 105 howitser. (Based on its preformance during the Israeli Sinai campaign in 1956 ). Due to the fact that this gun was already outdated, in 1966 the 175 mm M107 was bought, together with the M109 and M110.
In 1970 the 25 towed 25 pounder and the 105 mm M2A1 were scrapped.
(Though the 25 pounder stayed for training of forward mortar and artillery observers and ceremonial purposes until 1985.)
The photo can be studied in detail in " Vuur en Beweging", 325 jaar Veldartillerie, 1677 - 2002, ISBN 90 5352 735 4.
MAD_DUCK
Joined: March 05, 2002
KitMaker: 434 posts
Armorama: 406 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 03:14 PM UTC
I think I found what i want to tow with this model. While i was putting it together I noticed the tow hook set up for the kit. How does it work on the real thing?
sdk10159
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 556 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 04:49 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I think I found what i want to tow with this model. While i was putting it together I noticed the tow hook set up for the kit. How does it work on the real thing?
Referring to the pic below
The pintle "hook" unlocks and lifts up. The tow ring on the vehicle moves into the hook and the top is closed and locked with a pin.
The two "things' above and on either side are air hose connections for the towed vehicles brakes.
MAD_DUCK
Joined: March 05, 2002
KitMaker: 434 posts
Armorama: 406 posts
Posted: Friday, October 18, 2013 - 12:00 AM UTC
the kit didn't have that, it has a way different set up where the pintle goes. There is some T shaped object there.
Dazzyboyz47
Joined: December 10, 2013
KitMaker: 8 posts
Armorama: 8 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 - 07:53 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I got this kit the other day and I have a question, I know it didn't pull the M59 Long Tom, so what can I put behind it?
Oh I have just bought the M4 & long Tom for a DIO, because I saw this image!
Now I'm lost
" TARGET="_blank">http://[url=https://gallery.kitmaker.net/showphoto.php/photo/406278]
/url] jowady
Joined: June 12, 2006
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 683 posts
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
Armorama: 683 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 - 09:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI got this kit the other day and I have a question, I know it didn't pull the M59 Long Tom, so what can I put behind it?
Oh I have just bought the M4 & long Tom for a DIO, because I saw this image!
Now I'm lost
There were two versions of the M4 HST, one for the 90 mm AA gun, the other for the 155 and 8 inch guns. Hobby boss makes both versions.
ProfessorP
Joined: February 20, 2007
KitMaker: 339 posts
Armorama: 325 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 - 10:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
There were two versions of the M4 HST, one for the 90 mm AA gun, the other for the 155 and 8 inch guns. Hobby boss makes both versions.
I have read accounts that some artillery crews were equipped with the M4 HST to tow the 155mm howitzer (M1A1). Bronco makes the WWII version of that gun.
iakarch
Joined: May 19, 2007
KitMaker: 459 posts
Armorama: 421 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 - 11:56 AM UTC
The M4 configured for heavy Artillery towed both the 155mm Long Tom M1, M2 and Postwar M59 and the 240mm (8 inch) Howitzer. Both these kits are made by AFC Club. The kit out of the box has the ammo box configured for post war use, the Eduard photo etch set will back date it to WII use. Not the 155mm light piece made by Bronco.
ericadeane
Joined: October 28, 2002
KitMaker: 4,021 posts
Armorama: 3,947 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 - 02:11 AM UTC
The M5 HST was a lighter version and tasked to haul the 155mm howitzer (M1A1) (kitted by Bronco). I think Mirror Models has announced the M5 HST -- I forget.
165thspc
#521
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
Armorama: 8,695 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 - 03:27 AM UTC
Been rather frustrated ever since they came out with this version of the HST. What is the point on the kit while having nothing to pare with it?
I thought perhaps this was the manucacture's way of saying they were coming out with a 90mm gun in plastic in the near future but no. ??????
Disappointing!
I thought perhaps this was the manucacture's way of saying they were coming out with a 90mm gun in plastic in the near future but no. ??????
Disappointing!
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
Armorama: 1,239 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 - 04:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The M4 configured for heavy Artillery towed both the 155mm Long Tom M1, M2 and Postwar M59 and the 240mm (8 inch) Howitzer. Both these kits are made by AFC Club. The kit out of the box has the ammo box configured for post war use, the Eduard photo etch set will back date it to WII use. Not the 155mm light piece made by Bronco.
Another adaption of these guns to the WWII period is the replacement of the AFV dolly by the Masters Productions one. Item # MP35019. The AFV version is a post war one!
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