_GOTOBOTTOM
AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
German uniform color reference?
communityguy
#280
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: May 14, 2012
KitMaker: 493 posts
Armorama: 358 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 24, 2013 - 04:30 AM UTC
I know there are 1000 individual books that show German uniforms. But I'm looking for a single source that shows COLOR images (illustrated or photographs, no preference) of each of the German WWII uniforms. I would love for this magic reference book to call out what the official colors of each part of the uniform were.

Anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks!
Karl187
#284
Visit this Community
Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 - 11:29 PM UTC
Hi Jake- as you say there are a myriad of books on this subject you could choose from. For me an excellent title on German uniforms and equipment is 'Deutsche Soldaten' by Augustin Salz. It is by no means exhaustive but its fairly comprehensive. The major shortfall, I would say, is the lack of detail regarding late-war camouflage patterns.
alanmac
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 12:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I would love for this magic reference book to call out what the official colors of each part of the uniform were.



Yes, good luck with that. The simple truth is even if there was an offical colour given to each part of the uniform the reality is that this was not "uniform" across either production or during the life of the garment/equipment. Suppliers varied, the quality of material and dyes, how they were cleaned etc. all played there part in giving us these variations.

Here is an example to prove my point. All are genuine uniforms from WW2 photographed together so no difference in colour film can be attributed to the variation.

Field Grey Tunics


Another example


Whilst you may find books with colour pictures or illustrations saying this is the colour as you can see the reality was that there isnt one, just lots of variations based on what it was supposed to be.

Alan
Paulinsibculo
Visit this Community
Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
Armorama: 1,239 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 01:05 AM UTC
Hi, Jake,

Though there are even some color films on you tube, showing German equipment and clothing, a very affordable source are the series Men-at-Arms, Elite and Warrior by Osprey Military, an imprint of Reed Consumer Books Ltd.
Easy enough to order via their website http://www.ospreypublishing.com/world_war_2/

And furthermore: there must be at least a million books on this subject since 1945.

Good luck,

Paul
SdAufKla
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: May 07, 2010
KitMaker: 2,238 posts
Armorama: 2,158 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 03:50 AM UTC
Jake,

There's no single, one-source book that covers everything. However, when searching, what you want to look for are PHOTOS (not color illustrations like you find in the Concord or Osprey books) and ORIGINAL items vice reproductions. A lot of books with color photos show re-enactors and these can be "iffy" when it comes to what they're actually wearing. Reproductions and anachronisms are quite common with re-enactor portrayals, and you have to really study subject to pick out the errors sometimes.

Here are two books that I have in my own library that show the range of what's available.

The first is a good general reference and depicts numerous different uniforms and is well written by a collector who paid attention to the details to get them right:

http://www.amazon.com/German-Army-Uniforms-World-War/dp/0760302499/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1385566005&sr=1-1

Krawczyk, Wade. "German Army Uniforms of World War II in Color Photographs." Motorbooks International Publishers & Wholesalers, Osceola, WI. 1995. ISBN: 0-7603-0249-9

You can get a used copy for less than US$20. It's a good modeling reference.

This next book shows the kinds of specialty references that are available. It is considered the most comprehensive reference on WH and LW camouflage available.

http://www.amazon.com/Camouflage-Uniforms-German-Wehrmacht-Fallschirmjager/dp/0764316230/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_3

Palinckx, Werner. "Camouflage Uniforms of the German Wehrmacht." Schiffer Publishing, 2007. ISBN-10: 0764316230

A copy of this will run you US$60+.

Then there are Michael Beaver's books on Waffen SS camouflage which are comparably priced. The list goes on and on... I probably have 5 or 6 feet of shelf space devoted to uniform references just because there's no single ideal book.

Remember that everyone in WWII Germany had a uniform, from the train conductor and Forest Meister to the soldier and everyone in between. Each service had it's own uniforms, and all of the uniforms varied in details over the course of the war. The subject can be a life-time's study in and of itself.

Krawczyk's book is a good modeler's starting place if your interest is in German Army uniforms, though. Excellent, large and detailed photos and a modest price.

HTH,
Major_Steuben
Visit this Community
Minnesota, United States
Joined: April 24, 2013
KitMaker: 40 posts
Armorama: 40 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 04:35 AM UTC
Comm Guy,
I look at every model project, whether it is a single figure/vehicle or a diorama as a story. If you are having more than one vehicle/figure, keep in mind the real "uniform" color is slightly different on each. Like the other posters have said, depending on manufacturer, length in the field, theater of war etc. the colors will be different.

It is good to know what the color "should" so we don't have rangers in pink assaulting point du hoc. But Remember, that the khaki and olive drab combination was often referred to as "Pinks and greens" because the "khaki" pants were often light and on the red side. Color pictures are great references so that you can see in your mind what the color is. Total disclosure- I am a textile dyer by profession and training.

I make up a story for each item in a build. Is there a gristled veteran sergeant that is still wearing tall jack boots talking to a fresh replacement with short laced boots and putees. the uniform jackets of both would be different colors and quality of manufacture. Are they wearing "capured" clothing?

Also vehicles should be viewed in the same way. The M-60(IP) stopped by the MPs riding in a M-151 during a REFORGER exercise is not going to be same exactly the same color though they may have had the same specified FS color applied to them. The M-60 may have been in the field for several years whereas the MPs might wash the M-151 weekly.

To achieve these variations I have two methods. I use the same color from two paint manufacturers, such as Testors Olive Drab and vallejo or Humbrol Olive drab. Testors even sells faded olive drab in spray cans.

What it comes down to is does it "look right" to you.

That is the way I look at it.

Major Steuben
ivanhoe6
Visit this Community
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 08:49 AM UTC
Hi Jake,
Alan's 7 uniform tops show that you have lots of lee way in your colors.
What I like using is Osprey's 3 Modelling figure books. Not only do you get nice how to tips but color charts of different camo patterns and the equivalent Vallejo colors. As shown in Modelling Waffen-SS figures by Alpine's Calvin Tan. This one is the best of the 3 books.
HTH
Tom
Modelfreak04
Visit this Community
Lisboa, Portugal
Joined: November 10, 2013
KitMaker: 54 posts
Armorama: 54 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 09:25 AM UTC
Hy!

I would recommend these from Histoire et Collections. There are English versions.

http://livres.histoireetcollections.com/publication/2602/soldats-allemands-de-la-seconde-guerre-mondiale.html

http://livres.histoireetcollections.com/publication/1987/feldbluse-la-vareuse-du-soldat-allemand-1933-1945.html

http://livres.histoireetcollections.com/publication/1993/guerre-eclair-1937-1941-l-allemagne-a-l-assaut-de-l-europe.html

dioman13
Visit this Community
Indiana, United States
Joined: August 19, 2007
KitMaker: 2,184 posts
Armorama: 1,468 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 05:52 PM UTC
Hey Jake. What ever book you settle on, a side by side book should be, German army uniforms and insignia 1933-1945, byBrian L. Davis from Arco publishing Co. Inc.. B/W photos but, it gives a standard color for all German uniforms from RAD to field troops, and officers. It breaks down into 3 main sections. 1 Rank and rank insignia; 2 Badges and insignia and 3 Uniforms. Headdress to footwear. There are a few swatch's of cammo colors included. Also collar tabs, sleeve ranks, buttons and buckles chest plates and chains and also piping. The discriptions include materials used, size, and colors. These also keep up with the changes during the war, additions, supliments ect. Don't know when or were I got my copy, but it is one book so worn from thumbing through it for the German uniform details.
mparham02
Visit this Community
Oregon, United States
Joined: September 02, 2010
KitMaker: 60 posts
Armorama: 38 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 08:16 PM UTC
I would agree with the other comment that there is no one single reference. However, I have found what I think is the best one book resource. Ok, its actually two books, but you did ask for German only. the book covers uniforms, equipment, and weapon The books are:

Fighting Men of World War II Axis Forces
ISBN-13:978-0-7858-2815-0

Fighting Men of World War II Allied Forces
ISBN-13: 978-0-7858-2814-3

Both books are by: David Miller

I got mine for about $20.00

I hope this helps

alanmac
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 - 11:42 PM UTC
YOUR WELCOME

This is one of the reason why I and many other people no longer post as much as we use to on forums.

You get a person post a question and people take time to respond, give information etc. and the original poster hasn't got the decency to acknowledge those post with even the bare minimum "thank you" despite visiting the forum since then.

Its just bad manners.
retiredyank
Visit this Community
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 01:58 AM UTC
There aren't any dates, but here are some quality, color photos of German field uniforms.
http://www.youkidding.me/2011/12/collection-of-pictures-from-second.html
communityguy
#280
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: May 14, 2012
KitMaker: 493 posts
Armorama: 358 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 02:23 AM UTC
@Alan,

Oh boy... cut me some slack, brother. I haven't replied yet for several reasons:

1. I travel a ton for work and have been on the road constantly for the last few weeks, with supporting my wife's marathon running travel, the holidays, and post-holiday work crazy.

2. I never like to jump in on thanks until the thread looks like it's slowing - no need to clutter by saying thanks three times while the conversation is still in progress. Jumping in with thanks often kills the forward progress of a thread like this - other readers who may be inclined/capable of adding content see the original poster's "thank you" and assume all is answered and then skip posting more awesomeness.

Check my other postings and I think you'll see that I'm not one to hold back thanks or praise or appreciation.

3. I've been researching the data posted as I get a chance and had a few follow-up questions, but wanted to be smart about them rather than blasting out multiple ill-formed questions.

---

But all that said, I'll jump in and say a huge THANK YOU to all responders in this thread. The info is great, and I've been researching the books, links, and images posted. Very kind of all of you to share.

I've been trying to match up the multiple sources and over the holiday break, my intention is to overlay some of the photos with some of the Vallejo color chart info I've found so that there are color names/numbers with arrows pointing to the corresponding part of the uniform. Hopefully this will be a useful guide for newbies like me.

Anyway, again thanks for all the help!

jhoenig
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Joined: December 29, 2011
KitMaker: 343 posts
Armorama: 313 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 02:51 AM UTC
I hear ya Jake, don't sweat it.
Bonaparte84
Visit this Community
Hessen, Germany
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 331 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 03:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

There aren't any dates, but here are some quality, color photos of German field uniforms.
http://www.youkidding.me/2011/12/collection-of-pictures-from-second.html



Sorry Matt,

Thanks for pics, some of which I didn't know so far, but for this thread the link doesn't make any sense. I checked all the pictures and couldn't detect color differences of German uniforms WITHIN ONE PICTURE, and that would be the only way to actually make a point hereJust look at the Gebrigsjäger in the snow, if the colours shown were halfway accurate, he would have 3rd degree burns all over the face...
Back then, heck even today, use different (even digital) cameras to shoot the same motive and the results will be very different in terms of colour.
Any representation of colours will always be just that: a representation, not a copy.

Regarding German uniforms, Alan's post was very helpful, to the extent that it shows different shades within the same picture. Based on that, we know that different shades of something green-greyish was used for German uniforms. Fullstop.
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
Visit this Community
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
Armorama: 2,447 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 04:54 AM UTC
Look for Handbook on German Military Forces (Paperback)
Author: U. S. War Department: In 1953, the U.S. War Department declassified its Handbook on German Military Forces, but the document has stayed virtually unknown until today. This book is a massive compendum of information on every aspect of Hilter's forces--a reference book indispensable to scholars of World War II and devotees of military history. Illustrated.An exhaustive, clearly written, illustrated compilation of information about the German war machine from 1939 to 1945 covers military command structure, unit organization, field tactics, fortification, weapons and other equipment, uniforms and insignia.

The illustrations are basic compared to Osprey, etc., yet it covers all branches of the Wehrmacht.
Hohenstaufen
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: December 13, 2004
KitMaker: 2,192 posts
Armorama: 1,615 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 06:47 AM UTC
Fred,
While I agree the US Handbook on German Military Forces is an interesting primary source, it does by definition, contain errors and misinterpretations. I'm not going to list any, it would just be tedious. I would not recommend this source to someone new to the WWII German military, as there are much more accurate books available, and have been for some time (some are mentioned above, I would particularly recommend the Histoire and Collections titles). The Handbook was prepared using Intelligence garnered from POWs and observation of the enemy, and as such is flawed. The best researched post-war books have the benefit of full access to German sources.
 _GOTOTOP