Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 02:37 PM UTC
:-) Hi Guys:
Here I´ll post some pics of my new project. It´s a Sherman M4A1 with 75 mm gun and M34 A1 gun shield. I have the hull of a Italeri M4A1 76W that I built a couple of years ago. As I was not very happy with this model, I dicided to make something with it. So, searching in my Sherman Spare Box I found a turret of an M4 (Tamiya), all the sprue, complete !
I rebuild the hull and repainted it, added some sand bags to disimulate some loosing parts.
I think I will have a nice looking M4A1 75mm Late (Late ?)
I will send this pics to the Sherman Galore site. I´m also starting to build a Sherman Jumbo, but I dicided to pay attention to this project first.
Here are some pics:
Coments and critics were will be ok.
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few"
Winston Spencer Churchill
Kansas, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 05:34 AM UTC
csch:
If you're going to contiue with this, you really need to use a later high-bustle 75mm turret -- like found in the Tamiya M4A3 or Italeri "Marine" kits -- not that low-bustle 75mm turret from the Tamiya M4.
Sorry if I runied your plans.
Bob K
Owner, Kansas City FullMetalJacket -- two-time Armorama FFL Champions! 2005 and 2006
God Bless the Troops
Sero Sed Serio
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: March 02, 2003
KitMaker: 411 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 05:49 AM UTC
Csch !?
As u know, I'am doing the same thing as u're now doing. But.. i've bought (found) an old M4A3 turret which is Tamiya's old one #35122. (As hollowpoint says).
Remember to replace the tracks, antenna holder and machine gun of Italeri also.
PS: U showed me the pictures of M4A1s(75mm) with loader hatches (high bustle) remember, buddy !? :-)
I wish u success and waiting to see further pictures of your M4A1 75mm soon
it ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe
If you don't know by now...
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 09:31 AM UTC
Thanks for the advice.
Yes M113, I remember I posted the pics.
But is it imposible that existed a M4A1 75mm 47º hull with the low bustle turret ? Somwhere I read that in WW2 you can find all the posibles combinations in the Shermen, due to the many versions, usage of stock parts in the factories and field reparations.
Here is a pic that I found in the web that shows a M4A1 75mm with a very early gun shield (M34) and it seems to have the 47º hull. I think this is an early turret and if so, it could be a low bustle turret. I´m wrong?
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few"
Winston Spencer Churchill
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: March 02, 2003
KitMaker: 411 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 09:51 AM UTC
Well..csch..i'm not sure about that low-bustle turret always.
But..personally i've tried with Tamiya's m4 turret, it doesnt fit. First of all the turret is higly smaller than the hole. That means either u'll have to add an additional part if u want the turret turns, or u'll stick it totally. And the profile view...really..not good
But..i've tried also with high bustle turrets (old and new M4A3 of Tamiya). They're really ok.
And again if u trust the place u read, that says it's possible..the choice is yours off course.
I just paid (today) US$22.- for that old M4A3, only for the turret and barrel.
Off course many other modifications can be done but i've decided to not to use aftermarket pieces.
After all buddy, it's your decision :-)
Take it easy
it ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe
If you don't know by now...
Kansas, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 10:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Here is a pic that I found in the web that shows a M4A1 75mm with a very early gun shield (M34) and it seems to have the 47º hull. I think this is an early turret and if so, it could be a low bustle turret. I´m wrong?
You're right about the low-bustle turret. but you're wrong about the hull. That's an early, small-hatch hull.
Bob K
Owner, Kansas City FullMetalJacket -- two-time Armorama FFL Champions! 2005 and 2006
God Bless the Troops
Sero Sed Serio
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 10:23 AM UTC
Thanks M113.
The problem is that here it´s very dificult to obtain aftermarket sets and I realy don´t want to spend more money via the web in this old kit. I´ll leave that for other projects. I have a Verlinden Turret w / 75mm gun and M34 gun shield, but it´s also a low bustle one.
I noticed what you said about the size of the ring in the turret and the size of the hole in the hull, but with a little of extra work and some plasticard I think I can fix that.
I don´t know ...
I will continue with turret building and making more research. Don´t know.
If somebody knows if this combination is posible, please tell me.
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few"
Winston Spencer Churchill
Kansas, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 11:12 AM UTC
Relax about the turret race size -- just cut it off the bottom if it's too big and eye-ball it into place. You'll be fine. Use that early M4 75mm turret on a DML M4A4 (that's what I'm doing with mine). or get a Formations M3A1 with applique armor
Bob K
Owner, Kansas City FullMetalJacket -- two-time Armorama FFL Champions! 2005 and 2006
God Bless the Troops
Sero Sed Serio
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: March 02, 2003
KitMaker: 411 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 11:38 AM UTC
Bob,
That's not the problem. Just the opposite. The turret of Tamiya "m4" is too small than the hole :-) But the M4a3's (all Tamiya) is perfect. And turns and fits well.
I guess it's hard to find that Dragon's turret too in Argentina as it is here also
it ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe
If you don't know by now...
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 11:56 AM UTC
It´s hard but not imposible. The thing is that if I found it, it will be the complete kit. Dragon kits are very popular here.
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few"
Winston Spencer Churchill
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: March 02, 2003
KitMaker: 411 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 12:04 PM UTC
Gooood ! :-) I'm very happy for you.
Poor me
All my Dragon kits come from 15.000 km away
I cannot wait to see it's pictures then.
Take it easy
it ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe
If you don't know by now...
Kansas, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 12:30 PM UTC
Quoted Text
That's not the problem. Just the opposite. The turret of Tamiya "m4" is too small than the hole But the M4a3's (all Tamiya) is perfect. And turns and fits well.
Too small? What's the problem? Finish it, drop it in there, use the Mk. 1 Eyeball to center, glue it.
Unless, of course, you want to run it up and down the iiving room carpet, rolling track and turning turret, making "boom-boom" noises (to Vietnam vets: I know Boom-Boom means something else to you ...
).
Bob K
Owner, Kansas City FullMetalJacket -- two-time Armorama FFL Champions! 2005 and 2006
God Bless the Troops
Sero Sed Serio
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 12:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
csch:
If you're going to contiue with this, you really need to use a later high-bustle 75mm turret -- like found in the Tamiya M4A3 or Italeri "Marine" kits -- not that low-bustle 75mm turret from the Tamiya M4.
Sorry if I runied your plans.
HOLLOWPOINT:,
I am not the SHERMAN GOD, but all the posts on what he should and shouldn't do has me confused. There were M4A1 75mm dry low Bustle early and late. So was your suggestion of a different turret selection due to kit mis-match size or why? He could continue w/ the lower hull as is and use the italeri 75mm early kit turret or the Tamiya early, or the Velinden early. All would be accurate. By I am aware of the turret ring problem,
between Italeri/Tamiya kit bashes. Please advise. Tod
"HAAA YOU THINK THIS CAR IS BAD,,MY OTHER ONE ONLY HAS TWO WHEELS'
In War...., Everybody Loses something!!
WHEN DOES A HOBBY Become A SICKNESS
Kansas, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 01:39 PM UTC
Tod:
It's all based on the hull. With the Italeri hull -- big-hatch, wet-stowage, etc. -- it has to be a later 75mm turret or a 76mm turret. It's even a stretch with the high-bustle 75mm turret because this was normally a Dupex Drive tank.
The last photo that csch posted is a small-hatch, dry stowage tank --- and it has a low-bustle 75mm turret.
Bob K
Owner, Kansas City FullMetalJacket -- two-time Armorama FFL Champions! 2005 and 2006
God Bless the Troops
Sero Sed Serio
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
KitMaker: 1,941 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 01:44 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
csch:
If you're going to contiue with this, you really need to use a later high-bustle 75mm turret -- like found in the Tamiya M4A3 or Italeri "Marine" kits -- not that low-bustle 75mm turret from the Tamiya M4.
Sorry if I runied your plans.
HOLLOWPOINT:,
I am not the SHERMAN GOD, but all the posts on what he should and shouldn't do has me confused. There were M4A1 75mm dry low Bustle early and late. So was your suggestion of a different turret selection due to kit mis-match size or why? He could continue w/ the lower hull as is and use the italeri 75mm early kit turret or the Tamiya early, or the Velinden early. All would be accurate. By I am aware of the turret ring problem,
between Italeri/Tamiya kit bashes. Please advise. Tod
Let me understand. You think this combination (M4A1 75mm low bustle turret and M4A1 47º hull) existed in WW2 ? :-)
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few"
Winston Spencer Churchill
Vatican City
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 01:51 PM UTC
I know it's a little off topic. Awesome looking Sherman you got there CSCH, I know nothing about Sherman, but yours looked real nice.
Dave O'Mally aka Davidus ArwenIsMineus Pig No. 2, Da Jackel
A servant to the Sty - Liaison Officer for Z-Team to the Sty
Commandant U-Boot Waffe der Pigsmarine, OD is Extremely Asexual
Minister of OD Paint Removal
Order of Wisconsin 2 Parts Grenade
S
Florida, United States
Joined: December 15, 2003
KitMaker: 177 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 01:59 PM UTC
@ csch: me imagino que sera bastante dificil conseguir cosas de aftermarket alla. Hay bastante de Dragon en todas partes pero nada en comparacion con lo que tenemos aca. Amigo, date una vuelta por los estados unidos y no te vas a querer volver mas a Argentina. Imaginate meterte en un supermercado "Norte" de modelos nada mas
jejeje se vemo.
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: December 27, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 02:10 PM UTC
Quoted Text
@ csch: me imagino que sera bastante dificil conseguir cosas de aftermarket alla. Hay bastante de Dragon en todas partes pero nada en comparacion con lo que tenemos aca. Amigo, date una vuelta por los estados unidos y no te vas a querer volver mas a Argentina. Imaginate meterte en un supermercado "Norte" de modelos nada mas jejeje se vemo.
Hola Zverko:
Sos Argentino ? Supongo que sí (por lo del supermercado Norte).
I know that in USA the hobby shops are incredible. I was a couple of times in NY and I could´t believe what I saw. But I live here and modelling with what we can find in BA is not bad. It has our local taste.
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few"
Winston Spencer Churchill
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: March 02, 2003
KitMaker: 411 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 02:49 PM UTC
[quote]
Quoted Text
Unless, of course, you want to run it up and down the iiving room carpet, rolling track and turning turret, making "boom-boom" noises (to Vietnam vets: I know Boom-Boom means something else to you ... ).
Hahahaha..that was good Bob :-) :-) I really like this.
By the way..dont ever tell me u havent done "vrooooommm" and "ratatatata" noises with planes huh ? :-)
It's normal..i can do any noises..i am 45
it ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe
If you don't know by now...
Kansas, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 02:55 PM UTC
Quoted Text
By the way..dont ever tell me u havent done "vrooooommm" and "ratatatata" noises with planes huh ?
OK, I'm busted. You know all my secrets now.
Quoted Text
It's normal..i can do any noises..i am 45
Me too ... 45, I mean ... OK I can do the noises, too.
Bob K
Owner, Kansas City FullMetalJacket -- two-time Armorama FFL Champions! 2005 and 2006
God Bless the Troops
Sero Sed Serio
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 03:31 PM UTC
HOLLOWPOINT:
OK this how I see it. correct me if wrong.
Italeri: M4A1 big hatch = must be late 75mm turret, or 76mm turret
the only early 75mm low turret was on composite hull ? right?
Tamiya #35122 is late 75mm turret ? right.
If these are true then the only kit bash option he has is the Italeri hull /Tamiya late 75mm turret, with what he has to choose from. Am I Tracking?
It boils down to his Italeri selection of large hatch?
"HAAA YOU THINK THIS CAR IS BAD,,MY OTHER ONE ONLY HAS TWO WHEELS'
In War...., Everybody Loses something!!
WHEN DOES A HOBBY Become A SICKNESS
Kansas, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 03:53 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Italeri: M4A1 big hatch = must be late 75mm turret, or 76mm turret
Correct. M4A1 big hatch with a late 75mm turret is a DD or former-DD tank.
Quoted Text
the only early 75mm low turret was on composite hull ? right?
No. The composite hull is technically an M4 (A-nothing). The low-bustle can go on an early, small-hatch M4A1, as offered by DML (rare kit) or Formations, as well as some other aftermarket companies. It can also go on an M4A4, early small-hatch M4A3, early small-hatch M4A2 ... I'm sure I missed something.
Quoted Text
Tamiya #35122 is late 75mm turret ? right.
Roger that.
Quoted Text
If these are true then the only kit bash option he has is the Italeri hull /Tamiya late 75mm turret, with what he has to choose from. Am I Tracking?
You are correct, sir.
Bob K
Owner, Kansas City FullMetalJacket -- two-time Armorama FFL Champions! 2005 and 2006
God Bless the Troops
Sero Sed Serio
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: March 02, 2003
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 04:06 PM UTC
OK Bob. Totally agreed, since i'm working on same project.
Italeri hull + 35122 turret.
But a little question :
Which Commander hatch i have to prefere ? The late one ? (single cover) or early ? (double covers). Thus, if i prefere the late one, the machine gun will be at side, if not it'll be at back of the commander's hatch, rite ?
Thank you from now
it ain't no use to sit and wonder why, babe
If you don't know by now...
Kansas, United States
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 04:24 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Which Commander hatch i have to prefere ? The late one ? (single cover) or early ? (double covers). Thus, if i prefere the late one, the machine gun will be at side, if not it'll be at back of the commander's hatch, rite ?
I'd go early -- split-commander's hatch. I'd also put the MG mount to the front, but that's personal preference -- you can put it anywhere you want.
PLEASE NOTE: I just give an educated opinion -- use photo references of REAL vehicles (not other people's models) as your reference!
Bob K
Owner, Kansas City FullMetalJacket -- two-time Armorama FFL Champions! 2005 and 2006
God Bless the Troops
Sero Sed Serio
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
Armorama: 772 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 04:25 PM UTC
OK Not to throw an ANCHOR, but what about this one.
The DML Firefly Hybrid IC
TAMIYA M4A3 Put in a bag shake & bake = Sherman 2C & a Sherman composite M4A3 Late
"HAAA YOU THINK THIS CAR IS BAD,,MY OTHER ONE ONLY HAS TWO WHEELS'
In War...., Everybody Loses something!!
WHEN DOES A HOBBY Become A SICKNESS
