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The "Meat Grinder"
panzerconor
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Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 04:24 PM UTC
After Operation Typhoon stalled out before Moscow in early December 1941, the Russian counteroffensive threw the entire front line off balance. Not being restored until the following spring, what was left in the wake of Germany's efforts the December before was the Rzhev salient, named for the town it centered around. Being so threatening towards Moscow, STAVKA wanted it eliminated. Also, being so threatening towards Moscow, Hitler wanted it held onto in hopes of future assaults. Thus, the Rzhev salient sucked in thousands of Russian and Axis troops, and spat out bloody corpses. Operation Mars, the Soviet operation to eliminate the salient failed, gaining very little at the cost of tons of men and material. (Operation Uranus, the Russian encirclement of Stalingrad, was actually the diversionary attack coinciding with Mars) The salient held out until finally being ordered to clear out in March 1943, to free up German troop reserves for a little endeavor in the vicinity of Kursk. In terms of casualties and sheer brutality, the area earned it's name as the Rzhev "Meat Grinder" or "slaughterhouse."

And that's my historical background bit, for anyone who's unfamiliar with this relatively obscure battle. I'm shooting for a diorama of a German recon unit or patrol that gets caught in an ambush on some road somewhere in the endless countryside.

This is the type of environment I plan to create, only in summer:


I've got a MiniArt telegraph pole kit and I'll be scooping up more groundwork materials once I reach that point. I've got a bunch of early war kits to dig into, but I won't be using all the figure's I've got.

Aaaand, here they are.













Bam. I'm happy with the skin tones, they came out good enough. As you can tell, the eyes are not a strong point, but they're getting there. As for cleanup, I still have seam lines popping out well into the painting process, but they're not awful. One actually looks like veins in an arm. I did a wash of Fieldgrey with German Tank crew over the prone figure, but haven't decided if I'm going to do the same to the rest of them. Can't tell if it's a good idea. Thoughts?

These are the ones who haven't met the paintbrush yet:





I rolled up the sleeves on the German figure, just needs some touch ups. The Russian had the fingers on his left hand removed and new ones molded on, which I haven't photographed yet.





I tried to give a "swing" to the German's gear to give the figure a feeling of movement. The 3 of them haven't got heads yet as I'm waiting for 3 Hornet sets to come in from Colorado Miniatures, one had to be special ordered so it's taking a while.

"AAAAAARRRGH!"


So that's it for now! Comments and suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

-Conor
jrutman
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Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 04:37 PM UTC
Holy crap man!! That is so much better than the last stuff you did it's ree-dik--ooo-lass!!
Great selection of figgies for sure.
Big improvement on your assembly and putty applications and over-all look of the figs.
J
1stjaeger
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Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2014 - 11:57 PM UTC

Fully agree with Jerry!!

"Practice makes perfect" is really confirmed by your work!!

It gets better all the time!! So keep going!!!

Pay attention as to the "angles" of the figures. Lying figures shooting and hand-to-hand fighting together is not impossible, but no too probable either, unless the lying figure is firing at a totally different target angled well off the brawling groups (flank attack!?).

And be careful with these "eastern" figures. The idea behind is great, but they require a fair bit of care (filing/filling) to be "nice".

Keep up the good work m8!!

Cheers

Romain

panzerconor
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Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014 - 09:37 AM UTC
Thanks guys. I'm really impressed with the figures actually. Masterbox really stepped up it's game in the newer kits. Only one is "messy" so to speak. Still, Dragon has the crispest detail. The knife-wielding figure's suspenders seemed to vanish after I did the first batch of fieldgrey hahaha. You can tell where I struggled, but I can more or less we what I've got to do in the photos. Oh well.

Romain, you've brought up the big Achilles Heel to my evil scheme here. I'm hoping I can pull it off, but there's a chance that this may end up as two smaller scenes. The movie "We Were Soldiers" was actually the inspiration for this. I remember the 1st Cav being lined up along the top of a small embankment with NVA troops charging into their lines, which is similar to the plan here.

The German's will end up scattered along the road, with a small embankment on both sides, and a water-logged ditch on the side between the Germans and Russians. I'll have some of the Germans in a skirmish line, most of it on the road, and one unlucky end of it caught in hand-to-hand in the ditch. This should help clear it up:

one end of it breaking (hand-to hand):



one end holding/panicking:



and another group of Germans rushing to the scene:



It won't be exactly like those kits, as I'm mixing it up a bit, but hopefully that gives you an idea of how I'm thinking of arranging it. I'm a bit concerned about overcrowding the dio, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Like I said it may or may not work how I planned, only time will tell!

Thanks again guys

-Conor
1stjaeger
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Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014 - 09:48 AM UTC

Conor, I like your plan a lot!! A tad Hollywood, but very interesting because tricky to manage!!

One grows with the task!! And this one gives you plenty of opportunity to grow!!

You'll do nicely, I'm sure!!

Cheers

Romain

pseudorealityx
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Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014 - 09:55 AM UTC
The only thing I'll mention is that you're looking at fighting in the first few months of the year, near Moscow. You've got guys with their shirt sleeves rolled up, when the average temperatures would be ~30 degrees F, about freezing.

I think those figure sets were more designed for more of a summer environment.
panzerconor
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Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014 - 10:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The only thing I'll mention is that you're looking at fighting in the first few months of the year, near Moscow. You've got guys with their shirt sleeves rolled up, when the average temperatures would be ~30 degrees F, about freezing.

I think those figure sets were more designed for more of a summer environment.



Must have misread, the time of year I'm doing for this is July 1942 hahaha. It's after the Russian offensive at the end of 1941, in the salient that the Germans held onto throughout 42 and into 43.

-Conor
pseudorealityx
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Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014 - 10:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The only thing I'll mention is that you're looking at fighting in the first few months of the year, near Moscow. You've got guys with their shirt sleeves rolled up, when the average temperatures would be ~30 degrees F, about freezing.

I think those figure sets were more designed for more of a summer environment.



Must have misread, the time of year I'm doing for this is July 1942 hahaha. It's after the Russian offensive at the end of 1941, in the salient that the Germans held onto throughout 42 and into 43.

-Conor



Sorry man!!!

Good luck with this one.
jrutman
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Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014 - 01:37 PM UTC
Sounds like a good plan. Lots of figs. I hope you don't be like me and loose interest! I have learned to keep it small so I actually finish things,
J
panzerconor
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Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014 - 02:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Sounds like a good plan. Lots of figs. I hope you don't be like me and loose interest! I have learned to keep it small so I actually finish things,
J



I'm hoping I keep my interest up hahaha. Hopefully I get the momentum going and break this into managable sections so I keep myself amused, because in the past I've lost intrest every time hahaha. My last vignette was small enough that it didn't give me time to get bored!

-Conor
milvehfan
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Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014 - 02:20 PM UTC
Hi,

Nice Plan and start.....

mil
corsair924
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Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014 - 02:46 PM UTC
Hmmm. . . really nice figures and a great idea for the back story but I wonder if its somewhat irrelevant, this kind of fighting happened all along the Eastern Front through out the war. Only difference I can think of would be the specific uniforms, weapons and tanks involved.
Perhaps have a PZ3, a T-26 or a truck wreak dividing the scene/providing cover and explanation for why some troops are upright while the others are prone
panzerconor
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Posted: Monday, January 13, 2014 - 06:44 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hmmm. . . really nice figures and a great idea for the back story but I wonder if its somewhat irrelevant, this kind of fighting happened all along the Eastern Front through out the war. Only difference I can think of would be the specific uniforms, weapons and tanks involved.
Perhaps have a PZ3, a T-26 or a truck wreak dividing the scene/providing cover and explanation for why some troops are upright while the others are prone



You nailed it! Been thinking a lot about that. I've got a 38t by Italeri that would make a nice wreck, but I kind of want to use a truck if I end up adding a vehicle. I'm just afraid I'll bog myself down and lose interest if I add too much. Regarding making things specific, the best I can think to do is add Grossdeutschland armbands or divisional insignia. A vehicle wreck with specific markings would do nicely as well.

I've got a lot to think about, but this is only the beginning stages so I've got some time. I want to throw together the basics of the groundwork so I can figure out specific positions for everything, that way I'll know what will work or what won't, and what I need and don't need.

-Conor
jrutman
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Posted: Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 03:13 AM UTC
OK,thinking along the lines of keeping it more simple so you don't loose momentum.
How about a hasty trenchline(shallow) or groups of shallow foxholes/fighting positions. The group of germans that is firing can be in one group of holes/trench and the hand to hand guys in another group)just drivin out of their holes and slightly to the rear) simulating a small russian breakthrough?
Something needs to divide these two groups though,maybe a small building or shed? Or a small hill?
Maybe the building would be better as you can use it for cover for the re-enforcement/counterattack group?
Pretty cool as this would be the entire east front in miniature,IE mobile warfare.
J
SdAufKla
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Posted: Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 03:57 AM UTC
Pretty ambitious project, Connor.

I agree with Jerry that you should maybe give your composition some more thought.

You should have a single main point of focus which tells the story you want, with the rest of the elements arranged around that to support that idea and help bring the viewer's attention to it.

I see two ways to do this with the elements you have selected:

As Jerry suggests, you could make the scene smaller which has some very good advantages, not the least of which is an intense focus on the main idea.

Alternatively, you could go for a larger composition, but that will require some planning and testing of the arrangements of the elements being used.

All of the elements should be arranged to balance the scene with your main focus more or less at the center of attention. Don't forget that the terrain and elevations can be used to make the arrangement logical and at the same time visually balanced. Also, think in terms of not just left to right and higher or lower, but also of front to rear.

Here's how I might work out the composition to the initial mockup phase:

To me, the most dramatic (and therefore strongest and most interesting) part that you've shown are the troops engaged in the hand-to-hand combat. However, if you have all of the other German troops coming into the scene from the same side as if they're coming to help, logic suggests that the space needed for them will push the main focus (the hand-to-hand combat) over to one side.

I might suggest that you position the group of troops firing their weapons in fighting positions off to the right side of your diorama, the hand-to-hand combat in the center, and the troops rushing up to reinforce the Soviet penetration coming into the scene from the left side front.

So, perhaps imagine a German fighting position (a trench line or series of hasty positions) running from the right front corner of your dio to the center rear.

In the right front corner, you have the Germans in postion firing and engaging targets that are off to the right front, but off the actual dio.

In the center rear, perhaps slightly elevated, you have the position being overrun by the Soviets and the desperate hand-to-hand combat.

Coming into the scene from the left front towards the center rear, you have the German reserves rushing to seal the breach.

If you elevated the right front to the center rear, you could have the left front at a lower elevation so that the reserves can approach from cover.

Perhaps the scene then becomes a hilltop position rising in elevation from the right front to the center rear with a road cut and embankment paralleling from the left center to the front center. This could elevate the center of attention at the rear with the hand-to-hand and the supporting "cast" in slightly lower positions in the left and right front corners, with the right corner being somewhat higher than the left.

Here's a quick sketch of what I'm trying to describe:



Looking at this sketch, I can see that the center foreground might need some more work - maybe curve the position on the right down some more or perhaps just some interesting detail with the terrain (but nothing so visually strong that it detracts from the main elements). The whole composition might be condensed into a smaller footprint?

This still makes for a very large dio, but something like this might help to balance the elements and put the main focus nearer the balance point while still allowing you to use the figures posed more or less as they come from the box.

Note the "golden triangle" which creates symmetrical balance from side to side and front to rear, and also concentric balance focused towards the center of the scene. If each of the main elements are at different elevations, this same kind of balance is retained up and down height wise.

(The "rule of threes" or the "golden or magic triangle" can be very helpful, but sometimes a little too formulaic. Still, it does work which is why artists have been using it for centuries to compose their works.)

You can test (mockup) your composition out by positioning your figures (even while still WIPs) and using books or something to provide changes in elevation. You can use rulers or even pieces of string to mark out lines and edges. If you do this on a table, you can walk around and look at your composition experiment to see what the best viewing lines are. Play around with things until you have the scene the way you want, then use the edges of paper sheets or rulers to lay out your diorama's edges so that the best view is from the direction you want and you've eliminated as much "dead space" as you can. Now sketch it all out either in 1:1 or smaller with the dimensions recorded.

Like I said, an ambitious project, but possible with some planning.
panzerconor
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Posted: Tuesday, January 14, 2014 - 05:22 PM UTC
You guys, you guys is some smart fellas.

As of right now my thoughts are leaning towards a road running diagonally through the center (more or less) of the diorama. Mike, what you pointed out about elevation plays into this part. The road would be higher up, and the fields on it's sides down a slight embankment. Not quite a hill, but definitely something that stands out. The road being a different color than the fields should help it "pop" a bit as well.

Turning to what Jerry said about a hasty fighting position, I would have the German troops having just barely dug themselves into the ground. The road with the embankments would be acting as a sort of trench, or source of relative cover that most of the prone troops would be down behind.

What I've done a lot, mostly at work when things are slow, is try to think not of the scene as it's happening, but what would have happened within the minutes before the scene I'm trying to create.

What I've thought about the most is that it's a simple patrol, recon or probing force. They'd come under indirect artillery fire, or something like that, to force them off the road. In doing so, one half dives down one side, and the other down the opposite side. With this, I've got the prone firing troops doing their thing from cover, and those unfortunate ones on the opposite side locked in hand-to-hand combat.

Now, that leaves the reinforcements. What I'm thinking of doing is having 3 or so soldiers making a mad dash across the road to contain the breakthrough that's beginning to open up. Thinking from the perspective of some NCO in charge, I wouldn't want to throw a squad across a totally exposed stretch of land, so I'm thinking I might add a deceased truck or light tank to provide some sort cover for them.

IF the vehicle or tank makes it into the fray, I'm probably going to throw 1 or 2 infantrymen behind it, more or less pinned down. I've got this image of a German infantryman ducking down only a few feet away from a wounded Russian screaming at him. We'll see.

I saw a few weeks ago on Armorama that some company actually made a kit of corn. Literally, corn in a cornfield. That would work perfectly on the roadsides, as I could have the Russian infantry charging from there. Down the embankment on each side of the road, or perhaps just the Russian side, I'm going to add an watery ditch. The hand-to-hand fight will be going on in there, and I may add a fallen German in it. I'm probably going to leave it at that for any dead soldiers, since there will be at least two, maybe three wounded ones.

I've got a lot to think about But I've just cleaned most of the workbench, so I've got a great big clean spot to build and do some serious thinking at. Mike and Jerry and Mr. Poitras, you've all hit on the things I've pondered in the past few days, and helped guide me in what looks like the right direction. So for that, I thank you.


For the next couple days, I've got three of these guys to do, then I'll be able to do some mock-ups. The other two will end up with a StuG III I get for Christmas



Thanks again!

-Conor
jrutman
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Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 03:23 AM UTC
There ya go! Works for me.
J
1721Lancers
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Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 04:31 AM UTC
Hi Conor, I'm looking forward to seeing this one done.
I like these so called "action figures" , but it is a shame we
don't see more of them. I used the MA figures, I think they where called "hand to hand" to produce this:






I hope yours turns out a little dirtier, if you know what I mean



Paul


p.s. I should've asked if I could add some pics to your thread, if I have offended you then just say so, I'll remove them then

SdAufKla
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Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 05:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

There ya go! Works for me.
J



Yep! FWIW, same here.

All I'd add is once you have your idea firmed up, give it a try and mock it up before you commit to the actual construction of the base. Experiment with your composition and make sure that the elements you envision will come together like you want. Don't be afraid to play around with your idea and test variations of your layout. Also, don't be so committed to your idea that you just hope that it will work out even if your mock ups suggest otherwise. Be willing to change if that's what you need to do to get where you want to go.

Happy modeling!
panzerconor
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Posted: Wednesday, January 15, 2014 - 04:34 PM UTC
Thanks gentlemen, the quest has begun. Paul, WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT TO MY THREAD!? just kidding, I like the dio. Intense little scene you've got there. I've got Dragon's flak 37 in the waiting pile, can't wait to dig into it. I'm going to attempt to get one figure done per day over the next week or so. "Done" in this context means totally put together, but without primer or complete cleaning of any excess or seam lines. What impresses me about this kit is the bottom of the tunics are separate pieces, like in Dragon Gen2 kits. IMO, most figure kits should be done that way. Just adds a lot more realism and depth. I'm going to give all the runner's rifles bayonets, since I think it adds a bit more intensity to the scene. I'm waiting on heads since my order on Colorado Miniatures is taking a while since one set was special ordered. May turn to a trusted ebay seller for a set though, but right now I'm not worried. Heck, the regular heads from the kit are decent enough, but since these 3-4 guys will probably stand out the most, "good enough" or "that'll do" aren't going to cut it.

And so:







Basic figure is OOTB, gear is Dragon and Masterbox's, rifle is AFV Club (really, they were spares in a 251 kit, and the detail is great), strap is PE from dragon. I like all the different colors hahaha. Makes him look almost professional. Something else Masterbox has done is make the German's bread bags unique to each figure, and that gives them ten extra points in my book.

Mike, you said to do mock-ups, so here's what's basically a teaser.



Our runner looks very far back, but he's maybe 8 inches or so away. The block of wood doesn't represent the actual height of the road vs the ditch, but for now it'll serve it's purpose.

So again, the figure hasn't been fully cleaned or been given putty yet, nor will the next 2-4. I may do a little painting here and there, but I want to focus on the figures' construction before anything else.

Thanks for looking

-Conor
jrutman
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 02:49 AM UTC
Nice. I like the way you gave the guy the "flopping gear" effect with breadbag and rifle sling. Maybe tighten up his hand on the rifle a bit?
J
panzerconor
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 04:42 AM UTC
Hmm. I see what you mean, I think his thumb and front fingers are ok but the other half could use a bit of work.

Thanks for calling that out, I would have missed it hahaha

-Conor
jrutman
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 06:45 AM UTC
It shouldn't be too hard to fix. I like the angle the rifle is in already. To keep the rifle at the same position I would cut off his hand and place it on the rifle so it lines up better,then re-attach the hand to the arm,add putty-presto.
So easy to play God in 1/35 scale.
J
panzerconor
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Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 - 06:47 PM UTC
Great Scott! I've actually lived up to my expectations and finished one per day. Masterbox has done a brilliant job of conveying movement with these figures. Of course I bent a few things to give them a "swing" but they've been very easy and pleasing to build. As I said before, all I'm really doing is swapping out most of the gear and replacing it with that of other kits. I ordered a set of Hornet heads "looking up" off Ebay, so that should arrive early next week. Anyways...









His grip on the rifle is very good. I've had to carve away at the torso around the belt, and trim down the ammo pouches, and after that they sit very snug. I added the entrenching tool tucked behind the right pouch by simply carving out the back of the pouch, and on the tunic for it to fit right. After adding some putty in behind the pouch it works well enough.





Onto the next guy!



Same deal with the gear and what not, and I also cut off his finger tips on the left hand, and rebuilt them with putty to give it more grip. "Playing God."









No! Your eyes do not deceive you, he is wearing a smock. At first I ran away and cried for an hour. But, even though the box art had clearly lied to me, I went ahead and did some Googling. Apparently Splittermuster camo came on smocks and helmet covers in 1942. Which would be welcome news for me. But I don't know too much else, like if I should sculpt a hood onto the back to make it right, since I think it's supposed to be a WSS smock. If so, it's still an easy fix. Secondly, I do notice how the bread bag and spade are not fixed very accurately to the belt, so I've got to fix that.

Moving right along...





Simple mock ups is all. This will be the fourth member of the runners...







Basic Dragon figure, only with a Masterbox spade. Nasty flash on the hands now that I noticed it. Keep in mind he'll be elevated a bit, so the rifle is angled down ever so slightly. Right arm is only briefly attached for the photo-op, it'll stay separate until after painting. I've got one more runner coming up. Not a happy one either...

I hate not noticing the seam lines or other tiny flaws until after I've uploaded hahaha. Oh well. Any info on my smock problem would be welcomed, as would any other tips or criticisms. As for me, I'm going to bed. Didn't realize how late it was...

Thanks!

-Conor
jrutman
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Posted: Saturday, January 18, 2014 - 03:23 AM UTC
They are all nice poses and you have come a long way on settling the gear down on them. Nice job. I think you may have more problems cleaning up the flash after assembly but maybe tha's just me?
Yes,the Heer had smocks as well but not nearly as many and they did have a hood on them. They were usually army splinter pattern.
J
 _GOTOTOP