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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Syrian Stug 3 AA MG Type?
Jamesite
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Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 06:59 PM UTC
Hey gents,

I'm always interested in something a bit different and have been looking at Axis armour used by Syria post war.

I have a half built Tamiya Stug III in the stash (1/48) and thought it might make for an interesting paint job, however I see some very interesting mods were made, most prolific was the addition of an AA MG, but I do not recognise the type, can anyone help?

Here are the best pics I can find:







A close up of the mount:



and before anyone tells me the Tamiya kit is too early a model here's and early G example:



Any help would be very much appreciated!

Cheers,

James


Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 09:49 PM UTC
A KPV 14.5-mm Heavy Machine Gun ??? . It can be fed either from the left or the right of the receiver....

H.P.
Jamesite
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Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 10:39 PM UTC
When I posted I kind of hoped/expected you to respond H.P.!

Not a bad call, certainly looks like it may fit the bill.

Hmmm, now where to find one in 1/48.......

Will probably have to scratch build it and don't fancy my chances.......

Cheers,

James
TonyE78
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Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 11:57 PM UTC
I Wonder if it might be a Breda SAFAT 12.7mm machine gun, possibly originating from an aircraft.
Jamesite
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Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 01:48 AM UTC
Very interesting Tony!

Not a weapon I was familiar with but it looks a better fit, certainly the muzzle break is a better match.
An aircraft mg seems a logical option and may explain the dual ammo canisters? Where they got it from would be interesting but I imagine plenty of people would be unloading this kind of stuff after the war. Apparently Spain and France were originators of much of the equipment too.

I could also get one of these barrels in 1/48 - if they weren't out of stock in my hobby shop!

Good stuff though, these kinds of subjects are very interesting.

Cheers,

James
Frenchy
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Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 02:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Where they got it from would be interesting but I imagine plenty of people would be unloading this kind of stuff after the war.


The Breda could be a serious option indeed...In fact I was not 100% satisfied with the KPV I've just found out that the Syrian Air Force had been equipped with Breda-fitted Fiat G.55 fighters after WW2...



H.P.
Jamesite
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Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 12:37 PM UTC
Well lads you may have cracked it!

It looks the part and knowing they were available to Syria at the time definitely makes it plausible.

Good work and thanks very much!

James
Tanksami
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Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 01:15 PM UTC
Hi James,

Man what a cool bit of metal!! So if you are doing this in 48th, would you mind if I did a future 35th build of it??

Love the uniqueness of it!! Have you seen the photo of the one at Lanturn??...I think it is a simuliar vechile, but can't see the gun mount, everything else looks pretty much the same.

Cheers Mike
Jamesite
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Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 - 02:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi James,

Man what a cool bit of metal!! So if you are doing this in 48th, would you mind if I did a future 35th build of it??

Love the uniqueness of it!! Have you seen the photo of the one at Lanturn??...I think it is a simuliar vechile, but can't see the gun mount, everything else looks pretty much the same.

Cheers Mike


Not at all mate, go ahead!

Would normally of gone 1/35 but I had a foray into 1/48 a while back and bought the Tamiya kit so thought I may as well use it.

I think the gun and mount are missing from the Latrun vehicle but the gun shield added to the cupola is still there. There is a walkaround online if you can find it.

Be keen to see you give it a go!

James
yeahwiggie
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Posted: Sunday, June 29, 2014 - 05:07 PM UTC
I've been eyeballing this Stug-version for a while now too.
If such a gun is available in 1/35, I doubt it. The gunmount is quite complicated too, so a real challenge to recreate as well.

The vehicle itself looks like it is painted in a color resembling "Russian green".... whatever shade that may be precisely.

And then there's the marking. You can see some sort of tacticalmarkings or vehiclenr. on the nose, but as far as the writings on the sides of the gunmount..... My Syrian is a bit rusty, there.
Tanksami
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Posted: Sunday, June 29, 2014 - 05:40 PM UTC
Hi Guys,

Is the possibly zim on these as the surface looks a litte uneven in a couple of the first photos that James posted, or else I need to put my glasses on

Mike
yeahwiggie
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Posted: Sunday, June 29, 2014 - 06:07 PM UTC
Looks like, along with a Notek-light on the front, same vehicle as pic.3 I suppose.
Maybe during and after the parade?
Tanksami
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Posted: Sunday, June 29, 2014 - 06:58 PM UTC
Yeah I think it is a waffle pattern type myself
Jamesite
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Posted: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 - 09:43 PM UTC
Yeah waffle pattern Mike, and likely Russian green too Ron, as these were passed on from captured Russian stocks. May even have seen service with the USSR?

The text is difficult. I was planning to use some Archer transfers arabic vehicle slogans (not correct but would give the right impression) or some Syrian T-34 decals from an old CMK conversion set in 1/35.

Certainly an interesting project, I've shelved mine while I get my Tiger done, but there are some great subjects out there if you look for them

James
yeahwiggie
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Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 - 04:49 AM UTC
So there are Syrian decals out there?

hobgrot
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Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 - 10:11 AM UTC
DML did a full Sryian Pz-IV kit with decals & Bison Decals did a few sheets - Bison is now dead but you should be able to find some om ebay etc easily.

Colour of these vehicles was Green - some German AFVs came from Czech & French stocks as well as Russian so you need to go & sand back the new paint on the examples in museums to ascertain the proper colour-shade.
Jamesite
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Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 - 11:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So there are Syrian decals out there?



Yes but you'll need to look hard!

Ray makes a good point about Bison, their stuff is still available, and Johan has started star decals instead and are taking requests, perhaps a set of ww2 armour in the middle east would be a worthwhile ask? It's right up his street for subjects so certainly feasible.

Revell also included Syrian markings in their SU-100 kit, but this boils down to the registration markings like you see on the Stug.

James
tanknick22
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Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 - 01:14 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

So there are Syrian decals out there?



Yes but you'll need to look hard!

Ray makes a good point about Bison, their stuff is still available, and Johan has started star decals instead and are taking requests, perhaps a set of ww2 armour in the middle east would be a worthwhile ask? It's right up his street for subjects so certainly feasible.

Revell also included Syrian markings in their SU-100 kit, but this boils down to the registration markings like you see on the Stug.

James

I have a Syrian panzer IV in the works I just got some Syrian decals for t43/85 and t55 for the 67 war from bison on ebay im sure i can make them work for my panzer IV and also read they had a russian 12.7 mm mg on the commanders coupla
Jamesite
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Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 - 02:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have a Syrian panzer IV in the works I just got some Syrian decals for t43/85 and t55 for the 67 war from bison on ebay im sure i can make them work for my panzer IV and also read they had a russian 12.7 mm mg on the commanders coupla


There are some interesting subjects for the Syrian Pz IV including a Hybrid with an late Ausf J hull mated with an Ausf D turret that had been updated with Schurzen and a KwKL48. - definitely on my build list.

Not all had the Dshk but several did.

Good luck with it.

James
Tanksami
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Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 - 06:50 PM UTC
James my friend see what you have unleashed!!

Mmm soviet 4bo over waffle zim on early Stug with late return rollers, late remote mg, plus big ferkofski AA mount lol

I did a little research on those Breda guns & seems like they were a license built version of the early Ma Duece, I think finding or making a correct type of barrel now looks like the next part of the puzzle piece to solve.

Hopefully by then getting similar decals will magic up.

Cheers Mike
tanknick22
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Posted: Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 11:01 AM UTC
thanks james
Jamesite
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Posted: Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 12:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

James my friend see what you have unleashed!!

Mmm soviet 4bo over waffle zim on early Stug with late return rollers, late remote mg, plus big ferkofski AA mount lol

I did a little research on those Breda guns & seems like they were a license built version of the early Ma Duece, I think finding or making a correct type of barrel now looks like the next part of the puzzle piece to solve.

Hopefully by then getting similar decals will magic up.

Cheers Mike


lol Mike,

Yeah a great subject.

I found turned brass barrels in 1/48 for model aircraft, I'm sure you may be able to find equivalents albeit in 1/32 which would be suitable?
Good luck.

Worst case you may be able to manipulate an aircraft version of a .50 cal into something similar. Academy's US MG set would be a good starting point if so (and a bloody handy set to have in the stash regardless - I have 3, shhh don't tell the wife.....)

James
Jamesite
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Posted: Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 12:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

thanks james


No worries mate, give me a shout if you get round to building it, would love to see it.

James
Jamesite
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Posted: Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 01:44 PM UTC

Quoted Text

James my friend see what you have unleashed!!


Looks like you're right Mike, so I might as well help out a bit more.....

First up, here's a few pics of the VERY interesting Pz IV Ausf J/D hybrid:







Here's some reference on Syrian markings from this era, mostly from T-34/85's:











And some Pz IV's, the first is a bit different, haven't seen this logo on much other stuff:



I believe this is still in the original paint, note the dunklegelb running gear:



Now if you want some really rare Syrian ww2 era armour we also have....



Jagdpanzer IV (L/48)



Sherman 'Kangaroo' APC



Hummel (Note looks to have the same AA MG as the Stug III)


I think this may be Jordanian and not Syrian but it's interesting anyway:



Lorraine tractor, I believe with a US or British artillery piece (can't remember exactly sorry).

That little lot should keep you building for a while.....

James
yeahwiggie
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Posted: Thursday, July 03, 2014 - 07:08 PM UTC
What's that AA-mount on the 34/85??
The colour image and the b/w image are the same vehicle, I guess. Maybe taken from different sides. Markings and mount are the same.

I do guess the StuG III with saukopf is an original... what... G?
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