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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
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KPZ 70 arrived !
chnoone
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Armed Forces Europe, United States
Joined: January 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,036 posts
Armorama: 1,033 posts
Posted: Friday, May 09, 2014 - 03:48 AM UTC
Hey Chuck4 & rest of U all

You are right with your observation of the kit that it does not meet nor match what could be expected not just by Dragon but especially for that price.
Since their M1s are still state of art of what is possible, if you have the will to do it, and lots of their WW2 stuff seems very good ... it is hard to understand why dragon is letting things slip ? ... but their M48 is supposed to be a great improvement to whats available otherwise ... no consistency here.
Either way ... MENG "Terminator" is up next !

Dirty upped the lower hull and test fitted the wheels ... their next to get dirty.
No to much progress today ...




And here other things I'm also working on:




Cheers
Christopher
ivanhoe6
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Wisconsin, United States
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Posted: Friday, May 09, 2014 - 07:43 AM UTC
Christopher you have been a very busy boy, nice work !
I'm over my whine about what it is and what it lacks. Just as long as everything goes together smoothly I'm good with it. I just won't ever be the "first kid on the block" with the "Black Label" kits.
Thank you for sharing your build with us and patiently answering all the comments. Keep up the good work and keep sharing with us.
Tom
Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: January 11, 2009
KitMaker: 673 posts
Armorama: 286 posts
Posted: Friday, May 09, 2014 - 07:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello,
just to inform you, the reinforced stoppers of Dragon`s kit are wrong. They are the WTS Koblenz`s Type, not the Munster ones!!!
But the rest of the kit has the munster features. In a German board has already a small discussion begun!
Best wishes!


As stated in the german Modellboard forum: the reinforced stoppers are not wrong! The Koblenz Kpz. 70 has the original stoppers and the whole MBT is sitting on 4 metal struts to prevent the MBT laying on the body. For the same reason the Munster tank has changed the original stoppers by steel bars welded in place.
If you rework the Dragon kit, you will get a tank with non moveable suspension in reality!
In this point Dragon made a good job to give us the Munster prototype with its original stoppers.


Michael
Chuck4
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United States
Joined: November 13, 2013
KitMaker: 403 posts
Armorama: 401 posts
Posted: Friday, May 09, 2014 - 08:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Hello,
just to inform you, the reinforced stoppers of Dragon`s kit are wrong. They are the WTS Koblenz`s Type, not the Munster ones!!!
But the rest of the kit has the munster features. In a German board has already a small discussion begun!
Best wishes!


As stated in the german Modellboard forum: the reinforced stoppers are not wrong! The Koblenz Kpz. 70 has the original stoppers and the whole MBT is sitting on 4 metal struts to prevent the MBT laying on the body. For the same reason the Munster tank has changed the original stoppers by steel bars welded in place.
If you rework the Dragon kit, you will get a tank with non moveable suspension in reality!
In this point Dragon made a good job to give us the Munster prototype with its original stoppers.


Michael


What is meant by the stopper? Are we talking about the helical bump stops for the suspension arms?
Gotrek58
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Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Joined: January 11, 2009
KitMaker: 673 posts
Armorama: 286 posts
Posted: Friday, May 09, 2014 - 08:44 AM UTC
YES - the helical bump stops!


Michael
chnoone
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Armed Forces Europe, United States
Joined: January 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,036 posts
Armorama: 1,033 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 02:55 AM UTC
Here a quick progress report:
Did some work on the turret and the wheels
Beginning to look good I would say.
The pics are not the best but the Vallejo color really gets close, the Tamiya Grey Primer sucks a lot of paint though !




Cheers
Christopher:-H
PantherF
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Indiana, United States
Joined: June 10, 2005
KitMaker: 6,188 posts
Armorama: 5,960 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 03:08 AM UTC
I appreciate you taking the time and showing off your build! It only reinforces my need for getting this one because it's still a good price and we can add what we want or what the kit is lacking.

Maybe next week!







Jeff
Chuck4
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United States
Joined: November 13, 2013
KitMaker: 403 posts
Armorama: 401 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 07:18 AM UTC
I looked at barrel in the MBT-70 kit more closely. My sample is unusable because the bore evacuator appearently contracted a lot after coming out of the mold and as a result not only is there a massive sink spot in the middle of the bore escavator, the entire barrel is bent in the direction of the sink spot.

But assuming this problem is not common, and I just drew the short straw, I see dragon had some hits and some misses with the barrel.

1. The bore excavator is actually not exactly concentric with the barrel. Instead it is slightly off center, like the L7 gun, but much more subtle. I never noticed it before. But dragon did, and made the bore excavator slightly off center like on the real thing.

2. The dragon barrel is a tube with constant outside diameter. This is wrong. The barrel tapers slightly from the mantlet to half way to the bore excavator, and had a raised reinforcing band around the muzzle. Dragon missed both features.
hugohuertas
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 07:34 AM UTC
With any new comment, I keep being unable to get how anyone might consider a $70 range a "good price" for this kit...
Myriad of wrong or inexistant details, existing details way on the "gross" side, no PE, and so on
For that money or less, Meng, Takom and even Trumpeter are giving us far better kits

Anyway, everyone is entitled to do whatever he wants with his money
Chuck4
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United States
Joined: November 13, 2013
KitMaker: 403 posts
Armorama: 401 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 07:43 AM UTC
I want to build a mbt70/kpz70. Dragon's offering, such as it is, is the best available. $70 is a lot less than I would likely end up spending of I tried to scratch build one.

So $70 for the dragon kit is worth it.
hugohuertas
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Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 08:06 AM UTC
It may be a semanthic matter, but so its only less than what you would be ready to pay for a Kpz-70...

For me its kinda Dragon trying to get my money and giving me the lesser value for it, but I'm pretty sure that the "true" is somewhere in between both our positions

Apart from that, my "corundrum" point is that for the money Dragon is asking for their latest releases, we modellers should not accept kits below century XXI standards. Otherwise, we are allowing manufacturers to lower their quality just because "anything" sells anyway...
-at the light of this topic and the M103 one, I'm startin to laugh about the criticism received on its day by Trumpeter's T-62's, their mistakes look like a joke now-
KurtLaughlin
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 09:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text


1. The bore excavator is actually not exactly concentric with the barrel. Instead it is slightly off center, like the L7 gun, but much more subtle. I never noticed it before. But dragon did, and made the bore excavator slightly off center like on the real thing.

2. The dragon barrel is a tube with constant outside diameter. This is wrong. The barrel tapers slightly from the mantlet to half way to the bore excavator, and had a raised reinforcing band around the muzzle. Dragon missed both features.


What weapon is the kit supposed to be (XM150???)

KL
Chuck4
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United States
Joined: November 13, 2013
KitMaker: 403 posts
Armorama: 401 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 09:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


1. The bore excavator is actually not exactly concentric with the barrel. Instead it is slightly off center, like the L7 gun, but much more subtle. I never noticed it before. But dragon did, and made the bore excavator slightly off center like on the real thing.

2. The dragon barrel is a tube with constant outside diameter. This is wrong. The barrel tapers slightly from the mantlet to half way to the bore excavator, and had a raised reinforcing band around the muzzle. Dragon missed both features.


What weapon is the kit supposed to be (XM150???)

KL



It's suppose to be the xm150. You can compare the dragon barrel to the real thing on a kpz70
KurtLaughlin
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 11, 2014 - 12:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


1. The bore excavator is actually not exactly concentric with the barrel. Instead it is slightly off center, like the L7 gun, but much more subtle. I never noticed it before. But dragon did, and made the bore excavator slightly off center like on the real thing.

2. The dragon barrel is a tube with constant outside diameter. This is wrong. The barrel tapers slightly from the mantlet to half way to the bore excavator, and had a raised reinforcing band around the muzzle. Dragon missed both features.


What weapon is the kit supposed to be (XM150???)

KL



It's suppose to be the xm150. You can compare the dragon barrel to the real thing on a kpz70


Eh, I don't have the manufacturing drawings for that one. What you describe is similar to the configuration of the M81 and M162 tubes. FWIW, the muzzle reinforcement on the M81 was 7.70 dia x 5.00 lg while on the M162 it was 7.94 dia x 5.00 lg. The cylindrical section near the muzzle was 7-11/64 dia (7.266) on the M81 and 7.388 dia on the M162. If guessing I'd say the XM150 would be closer to the M162.

KL
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