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Dioramas
Do you love dioramas & vignettes? We sure do.
layout advice
ArtyG37B
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Monday, June 16, 2014 - 11:42 AM UTC
in the planning stages for a dio. I'm trying to represent a slice of an arty gun battery on Ex.
All the APC's and CP will have their ramps down. the M109 will have all engine hatches open showing the engine which has had a breakdown. there will be lots of ammo and canisters behind the gun.
and yes i know the trees are in neat rows, in our trg area the spruce trees were planted in neat rows.
There will be a few soldiers walking through the empty space in the centre ( 2 carrying a tow frame, 1 walking towards the woods with a shovel and TP)



any advice? I'm not totally satisfied.
PolishBrigade12
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Monday, June 16, 2014 - 12:17 PM UTC
Howdy Ian,

My first suggestion is to find any pics that would be even remotely come close to what you are attempting to accomplish with this layout. Given that, you could expand on it and take it from there.

I recon I'm anal retentive when dealing with layouts, digging for any possibility of a comparable or feasible photo that can justify my imagination. If they are not to be found, Ruck Over! This is a hobby and imagination is more than just half the fun in the process of this Sport.

Hope that helps Ian.

Cheers, Ski.
ArtyG37B
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Monday, June 16, 2014 - 12:32 PM UTC
Thanks Steven. this actually a scene from my own gun Bty. i was not totally content with how i layed out the models on the board
clayocker
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New South Wales, Australia
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Posted: Monday, June 16, 2014 - 03:38 PM UTC
Hi Ian. If it was me I would be looking to tighten everything up. I think there is too much open space on there. I would be looking to reduce the overall size of the board to about 60% of current. Keeping everything a little closer will just give the viewer a better sense of continuity and action. I find when everything is too spaced out your eye can get lost. Looking forward to watching your progress.
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
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Tennessee, United States
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Posted: Monday, June 16, 2014 - 03:53 PM UTC
Hi Ian,

What scale? Are these Minitanks?
ArtyG37B
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Posted: Monday, June 16, 2014 - 05:41 PM UTC
hi Frederick, 1/35 scale.
Motives
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Posted: Monday, June 16, 2014 - 11:55 PM UTC
That diorama is massive!
I would simplify, condense and focus my effort a little bit if I where you.
What is the story you want to tell and what is critical to sell it?
hofpig
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Posted: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 12:38 AM UTC
You could park the apc's on the dirt road, move the trees and other bits on that side to the side of the road. That would make your board a little smaller and the scene tighter. I'd also consider moving the jeep and water? trailer to the other side of the road, nearer the SPG's. You could probably afford to loose a little of the left hand edge of the board as well. If we could see what you are going to do at the centre area we could make better comments, at the moment it looks a little too empty.

One thing I have a tendancy to do is plan it on paper first, although these days I more often use ms paint to rough it out before I start on the base. My real advice would be to do what YOU think is right what looks good for you on gut instinct will most likely be right. After all if you based this on your on Bty then you will have a better idea of what it should look like than a lot of us.

Paul
hofpig
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Posted: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 12:42 AM UTC
You could perhaps break it down into a series of smaller dios. The SPG under repair in one, the Bty set up to fire in another etc. Unless of course you have the room for a large dio in which case just ignore me LOL.

Paul
jrutman
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Posted: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 01:43 AM UTC
You seem to be having the problem that a lot of us have because we served in military units. Unit sop calls for the vehicles to be dispersed to avoid making it easy for incoming arty to take out more than it should with a salvoe of indirect fire.
This makes it hard to transfer personal experience of military reality to a dio. You have to follow "diorama rules" which are seldom like real life.
Movies have the same problem as you must condense the story into 90 minutes while trying to maintain some realism.
It all comes down to....this is your dio and so do what makes YOU happy.
Your layout makes sense to me. I would maybe change the jeeps location and make it interact with a specific vehicle. IE,the Bt commander dismounting to check out what the f--k is going on here?
J
ArtyG37B
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Posted: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 04:59 AM UTC
Ok here's the story:

the guys in green are the command team receiving move orders.
the blue guys are the gun guides doing all round security.
the red guys are the gun det packing up the gun to go back to base.
the pink guys are the maintainers.
there will be more figures, drivers for the carriers and jeep plus crew for the CP.
ArtyG37B
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Posted: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 05:00 AM UTC
oh, yeah the green behind the gun is ammo and pers kit.
jrutman
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Posted: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 05:11 AM UTC
Looks like you have all elements covered. Head shed,commander,maint,FO,fdc and gun track are all accounted for.
Will there be wire comms laid? Being recovered maybe?
Don't know your time period so I may be too"early" for that?
J
SdAufKla
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Posted: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 05:38 AM UTC
Smaller, smaller, smaller... I only say this since you asked and since you're still in the early planning stages.

As a training aid in a classroom setting for arty troops, it's undoubtedly technically and tactically correct. As Jerry said earlier, though, the rules of good composition don't always follow real life.

As a piece of visual art, it has too much going on over too large an area. What makes perfect sense to you (from your personal experience and knowledge of the subject) can be easily lost on other viewers as they look from one element to the next, perhaps never understanding the importance or significance of any of those elements.

Every one of your groups of "colored" guys is a story unto themselves, and all are more or less equal in visual weight and interest (and importance to the viewer). Therefore, you don't have a single focus or center of gravity. If everything is equally important, then there is no "most" important.

Paul's suggestion is worthy of consideration - breaking the entire scene down into a series of individual dioramas or vignettes, each with it's own main idea or story.

However, even if you continue with this larger composition, I'd still suggest reducing the size to eliminate as much of the open space as possible.

Don't try to do this by filling up that space, though, with small items or random figures, etc. Those things have their own visual weight and power to draw the viewer's attention. All that does is clutter up the dio and dilute the visual impact of the elements that you want the viewer to concentrate on. Eliminate excess space by rearranging the elements and reducing the overall size of the presentation.

You could, perhaps, carry this off if you placed the guns front and more or less center, facing the viewer with all of the other elements arranged in a crescent left to right and behind the guns and their crews. This places the guns (and the purpose of the operation) in the center where they are clearly the most important idea with the supporting elements creating a background and frame around this main idea. It would still be very large, but it would have more focus on a central (literally) idea. Relegate all the elements except the guns and crews to background and supporting cast and characters.

(This arrangement could be called radial concentric with a foreground emphasis rather than a axial interest.)

Doing this, I would also consider making the base oval in shape to eliminate the corners of a large rectangle (and the need to fill that space). This would allow you to "push" the guns forward of the elements on the left, rear and right, further reinforcing their prominence as the main element.

Facing the guns towards the viewer immediately grabs the viewer's attention since human nature makes us focus on objects and people that face us. (A slight turn to the left or right would be just as good and perhaps a little more candid and less "contrived" looking.) Bringing the guns into the center foreground intuitively gives them importance to the viewer. Action from the other elements can be directed towards the guns and the radially concentric composition helps to focus attention toward the center and the main idea (the guns).

My .02 (but only because you asked).
ArtyG37B
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 05:50 AM UTC
Jerry, timeline is late 80's. at that time we were using radio for the gunline due to dispersed gun pos'n. so no line.
Mike, thank you for the advice. i think it is possible to tighten it up. while not tactically sound. it would keep the visual appeal.
also to fill the dead space of the road I'm considering putting in a carrier from another gun Bty passing through.
ArtyG37B
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 07:23 AM UTC
I did a re-do. made the base smaller and moved things around. while not tactically sound i think it looks good. if were tactical the base would have to be 3m long. considering 100m between CP and nearest gun.
also i now don't need another carrier.
ArtyG37B
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 - 07:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I did a re-do. made the base smaller and moved things around. while not tactically sound i think it looks good. if were tactical the base would have to be 3m long. considering 100m between CP and nearest gun.
also i now don't need another carrier.



oops forgot the pic.

parrot
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 - 09:31 AM UTC
Hi Ian,
I like the smaller version better.But that's just me.
I don't know what you plan,but I think if left the 5 vehicles on the right will be too parallel to each other.If they are coming off the road they would probably be more on an angle.To be honest,I don't like to criticize or comment on anyone's Dio before it's getting to the end.You do what you feel is right.I will say your in for a lot of work on groundwork.Keep us posted.

Tom
ArtyG37B
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Friday, June 20, 2014 - 06:51 AM UTC
Thanks everyone for your advice. It was very useful in helping me decide what to do. I'm going with the smaller layout.
Tom, yes lots of ground work, can you say grass mats?
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