That is a fascinating photo that I don't recall seeing before.
The turret of this Tiger is unquestionably not the one it was issued with. It's an "initial" turret with no escape hatch, but it has been upgraded with spare track hangers.

The hull is numbered 250202 or similar, so we know that it dated from April 1943 and what features it has.

Your Tamiya kit is problematic as a depiction of an Africa Tiger. The hull roof is wrong and the Feifel tubes are crude. But, if you want to model THIS wreck, the kit has a useful mix of the parts you need.

I can list the exact features of that Tiger if you want.

David

Tamiya's hull roof is not right for an Africa "501" Tiger, that's all. It has the S-mine bases installed, and the cables are moved because of that. It's basically the roof of the Bovington Tiger from February 1943. They also used the extended hull front edges.
Really, with all the research we have done by now, there is a need for somebody to release a correct Africa Tiger and make this kit go away.

But you can use it to make a plausible Tiger similar to what's in the photo.

The turret would have;
- Two pistol ports, no side hatch.
- No periscope on the right side roof (Tamiya provide the wrong kind, part F42, anyway).
- Spare track hangers on the turret. 5 on the left, 2 on the right. Watch the spacing. If you don't include spare track links, you should make the bottom holders which Tamiya don't provide.
- No smoke launchers. But these USED to be present. They have been cut off, leaving 2 welded tabs on the turret roof. You have some cutting to do there.
- The mantlet could be either kind as provided by Tamiya, probably E11.
- The submersion cover, F33, would be discarded long ago.
- The original turret bin is problematic, because we don't know which one it was. Most likely it was the wide type, which Tamiya provide in the Africa kit. But it would have 4 latches, not 2 as the kit depicts. Also, Tamiya's Africa bin is significantly undersized. You might be happier to represent the tank without any turret bin, which will require you to cut off those tabs at the back of the turret.

I will talk about the hull later.

David

Is it possible then that this Tamiya kit would be fairly accurate for a 504 Tiger such as old 131?

I'm looking forward to this build. That's quite the assemblage of spare parts there!

Question for David.

Is it possible then that this Tamiya kit would be fairly accurate for a 504 Tiger such as old 131?

Hi James,

I will keep an eye on this little tiger cub!!

Have you thought about maybe using white glue / pva, as you could then take it apart later on?? Personially I have never done it but have heard that you can then sit them in warm water to help "break" the glue back down.

Cheers Mike

p.s congrats on the new house too

James;

To leave off the mud guards and track cable, implies a very early Tiger, one of just 9 used at Leningrad. They didn't have Feifels. Just letting you know.

All Tigers of 501 in Africa, plus some later Tigers, had the same cut-down front hull edges. I don't have many great photos of it, so I hope these help.

David

The Voyager bins were custom-made for one single Tiger, which ended up in Russian hands in January 1943.

I haven't noticed the Feifels added to any Tiger retrospectively. Upgrades and retrofits begin to appear in late 1943, by which time Feifels were not in use.

The engine panel for those Initials had a simple rectangular panel to seal it.

Yes, you're heading into a sort of what-if territory, but it's not outlandish. One of those Initial Tigers was still operating in late 1943. Suppose it had survived a few more months; they could easily have put the Late tracks on it.

David

Have you thought about maybe using white glue / pva, as you could then take it apart later on?? Personially I have never done it but have heard that you can then sit them in warm water to help "break" the glue back down.

Cheers Mike

Hi James,

Very glad to hear that the pva is working,I will remember that for future use as well.

Things are good at my end thanks for asking the hand is nearly normal


I watched the game last night you guy's will sure be a force next year, I am thinking.

Cheers Mike

James;

This is the only Initial surviving in mid 1943, still operating near Leningrad.

The tool layout on these guys, top and rear, was unlike the Tamiya kit.

Really, it's by leaving the stuff off the sides that you put the model into "unlikely" territory.

Have fun!

David

Hi James,

Very happy see you starting your this blog. I'm sure it will be another great project of yours. The tiger I is a great modelling subject. In your hands it will surely be a masterpiece. Good info on the eduard's pe clamps. I must take a closer look on it. I wait to see more.

Cheers

Spit

looks like an initial in Italy in 1943?

Cheers,

James

That is Tiger 222 of s.Pz.Abt. 503 and it fought on the Eastern front.

In that photo it's at the Palais Rohan Strasbourg France according to the researchers at TIIF,DE. We don't know why.

This tank doesn't have bare sides like you're building into your model. The welded mouning points along the side tell use that it once had a cable and mudguards there. These were the bent-line mudguards provided in the Tamiya Africa kit.

The hull roof is also similar to African Tigers, which unfortunately Tamiya didn't provide. There is no provision for S-mines.

As for the turret; it has a Pz.3 bin, so we would expect it to have no side hatch. But there is a photo taken from the other side in which it does seem to have the hatch! This battalion had plenty of Tigers and they tended to mix them up, so we can't rule that out.

David