Hello all,

I know that this topic has been beaten to death and I truly apologize for bringing it up again, but I am unable to find the specific answer I am looking for (and I admit I am a little confused )..

I am interested in building a M2A2 Bradley as fielded during the IFOR mandate period (1996-97 I believe) and want to make sure that I use the correct interior.

I am gathering from various posts here and elsewhere that the Bradley interior layout was changed based on experience from ODS. My problem is that I am confused whether the term "ODS" is referring to the first Gulf War (Operation Desert Storm) or the second one (Operation Iraqi Freedom - OIF/ODS II).

Just wanted to try and clear up my confusion. Was the interior modified after the first or second Gulf War?

In other words, would M2A2 IFOR Bradley have the seating arrangement per the Tamiya M2 Bradley interior (individual crew seats), or the MENG interior (bench crew seats etc)?

Thanks for your help,
Sven

The ODS variant was developped after the First Gulf War :

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/m2a2ods.htm

Here's a extensive walkaround :

http://www.primeportal.net/apc/pierric_boudehen/m2a2_ods/index.php?Page=1

H.P.

Thank you as always H.P. for very clear answer.

Ok, now I know how to proceed. Revised interior (bench) layout for IFOR Bradleys :-)

Thanks again!
Sven

In fact it's up to you Sven. IIRC, both variants could be seen at the beginning of OIF (2003), so I guess this can apply to an IFOR Bradley as well...

H.P.

Aha, that's very interesting :-)

Ok, I will keep that in mind.

My plan was to use as much of the Meng Bradley as possible, so I will most likely use the updated interior configuration (minus all the very latest upgrades of course).

Now I just need to figure out if the IFOR Bradleys had the extra applique armour on the roof, otherwise there will be some rather difficult work to be done on the Meng model to remove it (or I can just use the Tamiya kit I suppose).

thanks again!
Sven

AFAIK, the roof appliqué armor is a M2A3 feature, not a M2A2 ODS one...The first M2A3 Bradley entered service in April 2000.

H.P.

Thanks H.P.!

Then I will need to use the upper hull from Tamiya and not the Meng one. It would be too much work (probably impossible) to remove/shave the extra armour from that part without making a mess of the whole thing.

Hopefully, Meng will release a M2A2 in the near future, that would be the best solution :-)

Cheers,
Sven

You will need to use the rear floor from the Tamiya kit as well. Most of the Meng interior is too new.

Thanks Gino!

This is getting more and more complicated :-)

Cheers,
Sven

The Meng seats are not correct for that time period either. You'll have to scratch those as well, or at least the posts they're mounted on.

I would use the Tamiya M2A2 ODS kit with parts from the Dragon MLRS to update the running gear. For the interior, I would use the Tamiya M2 interior. From the Meng kit, I would only use the turret interior parts, or get the Eduard PE turret interior set. I think the Meng kit would be too much work to use as a base unless you are comfortable with backdating just about all the details.

Hi Robert and Gino!

I think I might just give the Meng backdate thing a pass and work with the Tamiya kit (or hope that Meng themselves release an M2A2 :-) ).

Thanks for all your inputs (that means you too H.P.!), this helped med get back to reality :-)

Cheers,
Sven

I spent 10 months in Bosnia in 1996 working on Bradleys...so here goes:

Bench seats like what was found in the Tamiya kit. I need to dig though my collection of photos to see if I have any interior photos for you.

The Bradley ODS modifications are a bit of a misnomer. The ODS encompassed other changes to the exterior and the official M2/3A2 ODS Bradley nomenclature didn't come into effect till late in 1990/early 2000s. Personally, the biggest difference between an A2 Bradley with MWO's applied to it and the actual M2/3A2 Bradley ODS is that the ODS variants have electronically controlled transmissions. The original transmissions weren't the greatest.

Our Bradleys where Desert Storm vets (I got to Germany roughly 4 years after Desert Storm) and they had MWO's performed on them to give them the new Doghouse and exhausts that where found on the Bradleys ODS, so externally they where almost identical to them.

I'd like to see Meng do a M2A2 myself, since I've been wanting to do an IFOR M2A2 in the markings of the unit I was in when I deployed there.

Hi Scott!

Thanks for the information, very much appeciated. Yes, if you manage to dig up some pics of the vehicles from your time in the service, I'd love to see them.

Sorry for an ignorant question, but what do you mean by "MWOs"?

Sven

MWO = Modification Work Order

Thanks Hans-Hermann! :-)

Just to clarify, the Tamiya M2 interior has the older style individual seats, not the bench seats as seen on later M2A2 ODS Brads. Some ODS Brads still had the old-style seating in '03 during the invasion of Iraq. These were upgraded Brads that had the MWOs added to them to bring them up to ODS standards. New-build/rebuild M2A2 ODS Brads had the new interior with bench seats added on them at the factor or depot.

Thanks Gino,

That does open up several opportunities in variances of seat configurations in the IFOR vehicles as well.

I guess it is really a matter of making sure to build the correct individual, dependent on what seating arrangement (amongst other things) I choose.

Apart from the seating, were all other upgrades conducted on all vehicles, or was that as a case-by-case scenario as well?

In other words, is there a difference between the other upgrades implemented on the older vehicles (which retained the individual seating arrangement) compared to the MWO's implemented on rebuilds/new vehicles?

Most upgrades that were for protective measures were applied to all vehicles if they could be done by unit or higher level maintenance short of depot maintenance. Vehicles are only sent to depot level for major rebuild or overhaul. Some vehicles got all the mods, some only got what could be added by the units. In short, not all vehicles were fully modified.

https://plus.google.com/photos/109634117716683600143/albums/5132506743364292433?banner=pwa
hope you like this page
henk

If you need inspiration for IFOR vehicles, here are some photos I took when I was deployed...

https://plus.google.com/photos/107191298024325817985/albums/5933497001212530369?authkey=CJ71yOnav-aUyQE

I could have swore we had bench seats in them, but I could be easily confusing them with the bench seats in the M113. I have to see if I have any interior shots...I have this feeling that prob don't since I normally don't do interiors!

Gino, Henk and Scott!

Thanks so much for this, great pics and information from all who have answered this thread.

Very much appreciated!

Reviving this discussion with some more information that perhaps can be interesting and of course to ask for confirmation if I am understanding this correctly.

I was browsing through two books this weekend:

* IFOR - Allied Forces in Bosnia (Europa Militaria No22) pages 48-50 and
* M2A2, M2A3 Bradley - Backbone of US Mechanized Infantry (Concord 7506) pages 22-24

In both books there are pictures of IFOR vehicles which seem to have pretty much all of the older ("pre-ODS mod") features, such as:

* Wading strips remain in place
* non fluted barrel
* work platform still in place on left side of hull

In the second mentioned book above, there are also SFOR vehicles depicted with the same early configuration features. However, the pictures of KFOR vehicles in that book are showing some signs of the "ODS" modifications (for example fluted barrel and wading strips removed) - but not all of the mods from what I can make out in the pics.

I wonder if it would be safe to assume that in the case of the IFOR and SFOR vehicles pictured in these two books, that they most likely have not received any of the "ODS" mods and as such would also have retained the original interior layout (i.e. individual seating).

Or would that perhaps be an over-simplified assumption on my part?

thanks again,
Sven

The swim barriers on the Bradleys we had weren't removed till Spring/Summer of 1997...not sure if/when the order came down to remove them. The swim barrier was to be removed, but the strips that held them in place where to remain.

We def had fluted barrels (and can see the ODS Doghouse and exhaust in these photos)



Yes the work platforms where still there.

I guess so Sven

Camp Colt, 60 miles north of Tuzla (c. 1995-96) :



H.P.