My 2 cents -
While it is easy to blame problems on a paint brand, the problem is there are so many variables involved with airbrush types, needle size, dirty needle, compressor, water/condensation, then thinning 10 different ways, the airbrush operator, get my drift. I use lifecolor paints a lot, I can spray something, go off do something else and come back spray some more from the exact same mix and it will spray different just from the short dry time. In my opinion it is more probable to isolate the problem to the user and not the paint. I have been looking to try some (ammo) when I do I'll let you know.
- John

good point!

Guys,
In an effort to help resolve the issue, I primed an upcoming project this evening. This is Tamiya's white plastic & chrome primed in AMMO Black Primer. It is humid where I am and this had some effect, but still 3 coats covered the model perfectly. The initial coat was very light and did resemble some of the photos above, this was let to dry for 10 15 minutes max, then the second coat applied, followed by the third and final coat and it is now ready for painting. At no point was the primer thinned at all. The model was primed at 15 psi through a Badger Krome airbrush ( although his should not matter ).




I hope this is of some help, I will continue to try to find the source of the issue but I am sure it is not inherent to the primer or paint.

When I can spray all major brands properly out of my two airbrushes without a hitch* and buy – for me – new brands and dial in how to use them in half an hour it's quite indicative when one certain manufacturers paint just refuses to work.

No matter how much I cleaned, didn't thin, thinned, upped & lowered air pressure and tried other arcane means to get the non-Vallejo-manufactured AK Interactive acrylics to work they just didn't. If once certain paint brand requires goats and virgins to be sacrificed in order to work I'll just stick to the ones that don't involve waking up Chtulhu.

* OK, I admit, that new-ish Vallejo Air Dark Metal was a bit finicky in my H&S Infinity with a 0.2mm nozzle. Solved it by using a 0.4 nozzle.

You have posted in this thread three times and I guess you must have read the topic by now. How about answering the original question? Are you using the same manufacturer of paint that AK–Interactive did?

Hi Max,
I can understand your original question as such & am sure Ian can, I have followed this with interest as I have both Vallejo paints, Ammo & some AK paints.
But in my humble opinion wouldn't it just be better for you, us other modellers & even Ian to try what he has said & see if it works? I know I will be.

I think Ian is trying to help solve your & other modellers Issue's by the question's that he is asking?? I sure hope that when I come to paint my next project with either The AK paints I have or the new Ammo ones that if I run into trouble that the local supplier / importer would be so helpful.

I can understand your frustration with paint not "sitting correct" as I have expreinced the same with Life Colour, the fact that you are based in Sweeden & Ian is offering to send you replacements & also asking for the problem paints that you have to see if there is a production issue / quality control problem some where is not only very kind of him, but very proactive & smart from a business point of view as if he / they (Ammo) can find a problem then they could fix it because of people like yourself who have informed them about an issue & have helped them to Iron it out!!
Just my two cents worth & as I have said I will try the advice personally as I have paints from all these ranges & just want to get the best results like all the others can do with them.
Once again thank you for posing the question as the answer's on how to get the best results using the paints benefits many. Just not sure how being told if it is the same manufactour helps the issue??
Surely finding out how to spray it correctly is much more imporetant?
Cheers Mike

UNBELIEVABLE!

Would someone JUST answer the QUESTION in the ORIGINAL POST, without
going into all the SONG & DANCE about THIS & THAT!

How complicated can it be?

Hi guys -

There is a fair bit of misinformation being passed around, and hopefully this will help clarify.

The previous supplier to AK was not Vallejo paints, in fact, I believe they never did supply them at any time, and the two gentlemen named Vallejo are not related or have even met before. The last name is simply very common in Spain. I work with both company's and have crossed emails accidentally, and Vallejo paints should not even be mentioned in this regards.

As posted back in November on a lot of websites, the original supplier to AK left when Miguel left and started AMMO. My understanding is, and Ian can correct me if I'm wrong, is that supplier is now AMMO's supplier.

AK is now using a new supplier as a result.

Regarding the spraying issues --- it is HIGHLY recommended to shake the sh@t out of any vinyl acrylic type of paint. My first thought is the paint was not properly shaken prior to use, I mean like for at least 5 minutes kind of thing. This goes for Lifecolor and Vallejos as well. There is a reason AMMO is now adding ball bearings into their bottles, the carrier liquids like to separate from the pigments more and this can cause issues long term. It could be a batch issue as well, but given the new added ball bearing it's likely the source of the problem.

The other possible problem could be some form of surface substance issue. Maybe something was on the model, maybe the mold release agent was too much for the primer? It looks like some form of reaction and/or pigment/carrier separation to my eyes, especially if your airbrush/compressor adjustments did nothing to improve things. HTH.

Mike, please see the following image;

http://i.imgur.com/mKScMZd.jpg

Got the 4B0 modulation set when AK Interactive started out and it still sprays like a dream, just like every other Vallejo Air I own (some which predates the 4B0 set).

Since the Ammo by Mig now features a new yellow cap I was hoping that it somehow meant changes in manufacturing. Hoping because I've had nothing but less than satisfying experiences with the newer manufacture AK-paint, the ones I call "red tops".

I've been using waterbased acrylics since the late 80's and are well accustomed to the amount of shaking, stirring and general mayhem you have to use in order to blend binder and pigment. Especially with the older brands. (And sometimes not even that helped >_< )

I stand corrected re. Vallejo supplying AK at some point, but it wasn't the supplier in issue, or involved now with AMMO.

The yellow cap AMMO paints does indicate a change in manufacturing (processes anyway), they added a ball bearing inside for superior mixing properties, according to their new info. You might have also had a bad batch, I've seen plenty of high-quality paint jobs to know they do work well.

I have no issues with my setup spraying any of them, so it sounds likely to be isolated to some specific mixing or batch issues. I've sprayed AK, Vallejo, Lifecolor and Tamiya in the last month with no problems with any of them. I haven't sprayed AMMO yet, so can't comment. However, I always thin more regardless of whether they are pre-thinned or not and my typical psi is approx. 15-20psi and through .3 and .35mm Iwata/Tamiya airbrushes.

One other tip - I also use three airbrushes, I do not mix vinyl acrylics with my lacquer acrylics anymore through the same airbrush, even after stripping and thoroughly cleaning, plus one for enamels. That change has all but eradicated any spraying issues for the last few years. Only tip drying has been of any sort of issue I've had since.

I think the Vallejo-produced paint led to the initial confusion regarding Vallejo and mr. Vallejo involved with AK-Interactive.

Ball bearings didn't fix my problems with the red tops I had and I guess it's just an issue of the manufacturer not having proper procedures and/or QA. I really don't rule out that I got bad batches (on around 24 bottles of paint though!) since I've also seen wonderful paintjobs done with AK paint. It's just that since I was burned by the AK paints I really don't want to go through the motions of buying essentially the same product that has a 50/50 chance of working with me, my setup or the alignment of Saturn over Venus. Especially not when other paints manage to perform just as good.

I have my Infinity reserved for water soluble paint and the much cheaper Neo for anything else, and I make pretty dang sure to use a solvent like IPA (due to it's quick evaporation) to thoroughly clean my airbrush when switching between paints. And yes, I let them air dry far longer than it takes for any residue of the solvent to remain. I've had one nozzle gummed up by trying to thin VMA with isopropyl (don't believe everything you read on the internet!) and I wont be doing that again

And as I said earlier, I have had no problems with any other paint brands apart from the more or less obligatory tip dry with watersoluble acrylics.

This post has just turned into a mess really. I only wanted to know if it was the same manufacturer, now I sit here writing essays -.-

Guys give Iain a chance to deal with one issue at a time or it will get a little confusing. Iain is a good guy and will do his utmost to help you all with your issues.

I echo the comments on Ian.

The original AK Interactive paints (black cap) were made by Vallejo Acrylics in their Model Air line. Close insoection of their labels will reveal their AV logo. Later on AK began manufacturing their paints themselves (well i guess technically got a new manufacturer), and these are distinguished by an orange cap. Inthe past year, AK dumped Mig, and a few others, and several others left the company to form AMMO. I have read a letter from the paint manufacturer that produced the products for AK Interactive on Mig's facebook saying they will produce products for the AMMO line exclusively. Therefor, the acrylics from AMMO are the same as the orange capped acrylics from AK before the split.


As for resolving your paint issues, i would first shake the living daylights from the paint. The get in there with a tool and stir. Then shake some more. Then airbrush at 15-20 psi and see if that solves your problems. If that doesnt work, contact AMMO directly via email with pics if possible. Ian is a good guy and will do whayever he can to help you out from my limited interactions with him.

I hope this post has been helpful.

The only AK Interactive paint sets made by Vallejo were the original 4BO Color Modulation set and the original German Dark Yellow Color Modulation set. Those were the only two sets produced by Vallejo, and it was many moons ago.

I'll let Iain (note the second i) answer the AMMO questions but as far as AK Interactive, the formula has been changed more than just once, and the current formula is different than it was pre-split.

Cap color alone is not the indicator of new/old formulas, as seen in the photo below. Same paint color, same cap color, different labels, different formulas





Personally, I'd recommend popping the eyedropper off and stirring the clotted clump of sticky pigments that has settled on the bottom of the bottle with a brush handle vs. just simply shaking it. I do this with all my AK paints and it not only improves the way it sprays but also the color and adhesion.

I have had limited but very positive experiences with the Ammo paints and like another poster I thinned with Mr.Color Self Leveling Thinner. Although the Ammo paint was much thinner out of the bottle than Tamiya, it still needs to be thinned IMO for airbrushing. I use the same thinner at a higher ratio
for Tamiya paints as well with fantastic results.

Some ideas that will help regardless of what acrylic paint you are using.
Give a SLIGHT AND THIN coat of primer, then let it dry for a few minutes while you move on to prime other areas.
The result may be uneven, like in pictures of the post from Karl 187, even thinner. The initial primer coat on the Citroen pictured above was not pretty, much like Karl's photos.
This thin coat kills surface tension and surface issues like Mike pointed out above. Then you can go with a
second THIN coat.
Let the second coat dry and move on to a 3rd as needed.
It is critical that these be thin transparent layers, the same is true of your base colors applied once your primer is dry.

Acrylics in general have an issue of surface
tension and ours are no exception. You can see this when you paint directly over plastic.
This is why it is highly recommended to use a primer. The primer has a slightly
matt surface that helps kill the surface tension and helps paint to be more evenly distributed on the surface.
It is important to note regardless of which brand of paint you prefer, coats MUST BE VERY thin. All of them. Primer and paint.

I agree about extra thinning in general, even for airbrush prepped paints.

And given the info in this thread, some questions pop into my head...

1) If you guys are using Mr. Color Leveling Thinner with AMMO successfully, that would mean the AK paints previous to the AMMO/Mig split should also perform better via the same combo?

2) If Vallejo, Lifecolor, AK, and AMMO are considered "vinyl acrylics" and Mr. Color Leveling Thinner (by default Tamiya Lacquer Thinner likely as well) should also improve spraying performance? We know lacquer acrylics perform far better this way, but the news of vinyl acrylics doing is news to me, at least. Unless AMMO is not a vinyl acrylic in the classic sense?

Just some thoughts from this convo, it's all good info to get out there if repeatable and reliable at the bench. I'm a huge Gunze (Mr. Hobby) fan in general, nearly everything they make is amazing, just a tad difficult to get in NA/Europe.

Mike, I've heard about Leveling thinner from Oishi Modeller, the guy with exceptional skills.

So Ammo have outsourced the paint production to China but are too afraid to admit it?

Are you guys grinding your pigments with second hand two-rollers found on Alibaba?

Is Ammo paints still made by the same manufacturer as AK Interactive used when I received 24 bottles of more or less worthless paint?

I don't understand why you are skirting around the topic? I can excuse the odd other thread hijackers in this topic, but you are on your fourth post as an associate of the company without addressing the original topic. Give me a break please.

We have gone through absolutely EVERYTHING but what I asked about. I have proper airbrushing procedures. I've been doing it for years and learnt the ins and outs. I'm also knowledgeable enough of the craft that I freely admit that I have a lot more to learn. See the Dunning-Kruger syndrome if you're wondering why that's the case. I've been airbrushing with various suppliers and have never had any problems like I did with the paints manufactured with the – as we now know – older AK Interactive formula & manufacturer. I want to avoid that manufacturer since it seems like there is serious corner-cutting or lack of Q & A being made.

To be honest, it really doesn't matter if I try to blow the paint through a straw. They didn't work for me and I didn't want to spend more money just to have to experience the same problems I did earlier. That's why I asked...

Is it still the same manufacturer as AK Interactive used before the Mig-split?

You once had a customer on the edge of buying your paints and even recommending them to his friends and random modellers on the internet. Now I'm pretty sure that I'll pass on using any of the Ammo-products until more trusted sources (i.e. not people that end their reviews with "Thanks to Ammo for supplying…") tells me the quality and QA of your products meet basic standards.

Now you instead have a inquisitive non-customer interested in further posting just to see why it's so hard to answer this pretty simple question. Good job. -.-

If your having problems mixing paint bottles, might want to invest in one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Robart-Manufacturing-Paint-Shaker-Powered/dp/B0006O7M9W/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1404336744&sr=8-2&keywords=paint+shaker

For bottles with bigger openings, I use this:

http://www.amazon.com/Badger-Air-Brush-Co-121-Paint/dp/B000BROV02/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1404336988&sr=8-9&keywords=paint+stirrer

which IMO is one of the best tools I've ever bought

They both work pretty good, I use the shaker one on eyedropper style paint bottles.

As for answering why/who makes the paint, why do they need to disclose that? They might have an agreement with the manufacture that either party might not want that to come out as public knowledge for whatever reason.

With that being said, personally I'm not huge fan of the paint since I've always had good luck with the Tamiya range of paint,which normally goes down easier and is more forgiving painting wise. That's just my personal option though.

It's not like I'm asking for an address, POC and other sensitive information. I was asking for – and expecting – a Yes/No answer with some company-fluff.

The absolute refusal to give even that brief answer is to me both hilarious and slightly troublesome since it automatically leads to the followup questions regarding the trouble of getting/giving a straight answer to what once was a simple question.

Ok, I Will try to give You an answer... AMMO paints are produced by the former AK supplier. When Mig Was fired from AK, the paint supplier switched sides and went with Mig. In other words, now AK has a new high quality supplier, and AMMO, besides some aesthetic changes like the yellow caps and so on, has the same supplier Ak has before October 2013.

Hope this Will help You.

Best regards

As the previus post says, and about the main question of the tread, YES, AMMO OF MIG JIMENEZ PAINTS ARE MADE BY THE SAME FACTORY THAT MADE AK PAINTS BEFORE NOVEMBER 2013; both Mig Jiménez and the
manufacturer made that fact public last december.

Second question, FROM DECEMBER 2013 THE PAINTS OF AK-INTERACTIVE ARE MADE BY OTHER FACTORY, with improved formula and much more better performance (I saw friends of mine airbrushing that paints). This fact was made public by AK-INTERACTIVE too.

My two cents.

Best regards

THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I WAS HOPING THE YELLOW CAPS MEANT A NEW MANUFACTURER BUT APPARENTLY IT DIDN'T. I'LL KEEP USING OTHER BRANDS THEN.

Again, THANKS.

Sincerely,