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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Dragon 1C conversion ?
bigal5000
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Posted: Monday, July 07, 2014 - 01:36 AM UTC
I have the Dragon kit 1c firefly and would like to convert to a US composite hull what is the correct turret for the change? Any other mods needed? Thanks very much.
ericadeane
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Posted: Monday, July 07, 2014 - 01:53 AM UTC
The M4 Composite (before conversion to IC 17pdr Firefly status) came in basically 3 configurations by two manufacturers.

1) Small hatch M4 Composites by Chysler (or Detroit Tank Arsenal). Approx 50 produced. Straight VVS return roller arms. Low bustle turret, some w/no pistol port.

2) Large hatch M4 Composites by Chysler (or Detroit Tank Arsenal). After one month's production, raised VVS retn roller arms were installed. High Bustle turrets. Fancy drive sprocket. Notch in side skirt mounting strip. Square air cleaners.

3) Large hatch M4 Composites by ALCO. No notch in skirt strip. Right front hull applique plate has rounded corner, plain sprockets, likely straight retn roller arms, round air cleaners.

Info gotten from here:
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4composite/m4_composite.html


I believe the DML kit gives you a basic DTA-manufactured large hatch kit. You'd omit the 17pdr cleaning rods on the left engine deck of course. Add the hull MG. Get a high bustle 75mm turret (Tamiya M4A3 75W or aftermarket).
Biggles2
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Posted: Monday, July 07, 2014 - 02:14 AM UTC
But with repairs and replacement of parts (sometimes including turrets) any rules go right out the window, right?
tankmodeler
#417
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Posted: Monday, July 07, 2014 - 08:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

But with repairs and replacement of parts (sometimes including turrets) any rules go right out the window, right?

Not really.

Yes, there are exceptions to the rules, but in those cases you really should have a photo to back up any claims of accuracy.

If you are trying to build an accurate vehicle, you can't actually throw any bits you like together and say, hey, there must have been one like this somewhere, because that's not the case. Exceptions to the rules are just that, exceptions. If you have a photo, great build that vehicle and it's all cool. If you don't care about accuracy, then build what you like and it's still cool.

But if you are trying to build accurately, then build to the rules (which come from evidence) or have a photo. If there's no evidence, then it's not real, it's Sci Fi.

Paul
ALBOWIE
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Posted: Monday, July 07, 2014 - 03:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text



2) Large hatch M4 Composites by Chysler (or Detroit Tank Arsenal). After one month's production, raised VVS retn roller arms were installed. High Bustle turrets. Fancy drive sprocket. Notch in side skirt mounting strip. Square air cleaners.


Roy, if you look at most of the British 33 AB and US Army in the Phillipines ones they have LB turrets with Thickened Cheek and no Pistol Port (as are quite a few on the Shaddock Site). The HB turrets appear as well but are a lot rarer than the LB ones.

Al
ericadeane
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Posted: Monday, July 07, 2014 - 11:00 PM UTC
Aha! Good to know, Al. Thnx
ALBOWIE
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Posted: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 - 09:45 AM UTC
Also, I have never seen a HB COmposite in the ETO whether US or UK (via Leife) only PTO

CHeers
Al
sherman-vc
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 - 09:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Also, I have never seen a HB COmposite in the ETO whether US or UK (via Leife) only PTO

CHeers
Al


As a 75mm gun tank maybe, but as a 1C there were a few well at least one for sure, In Donald Graves book on the South Albertas there is a photo of a HB turreted 1C at Berg Op Zoom. Even has the oval loaders hatch instead of the normal square loaders hatch added to other Fireflys.

Regards,

Rod
ALBOWIE
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Posted: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 - 08:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Also, I have never seen a HB COmposite in the ETO whether US or UK (via Leife) only PTO

CHeers
Al


As a 75mm gun tank maybe, but as a 1C there were a few well at least one for sure, In Donald Graves book on the South Albertas there is a photo of a HB turreted 1C at Berg Op Zoom. Even has the oval loaders hatch instead of the normal square loaders hatch added to other Fireflys.

Regards,

Rod


Yeah, I was referring to 75 gun tanks. There are tons of 1c HB turreted version seen in photos. I think the reason that you don't see HB gun tanks in the ETO is because the HB ones were set aside for Firefly conversion - just a thought
sherman-vc
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Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 - 04:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Yeah, I was referring to 75 gun tanks. There are tons of 1c HB turreted version seen in photos. I think the reason that you don't see HB gun tanks in the ETO is because the HB ones were set aside for Firefly conversion - just a thought


Think you are on to something there, I remember reading somewhere that there was a shortage of suitable 75mm armed Shermans available for Firefly conversions. As production had switched to 76mm armed and 105mm armed (both of which were not suitable for firefly conversions I think). I am guessing that the HB M4 hybrids were some of the last production 75mm armed shermans produced (other than M4A3 75mm).
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