Hi Hisham- interesting stuff in this thread- thats certainly an enterprising use of an old tractor!
I recently bought two upgrade sets from Voyager for Trumpeter's BM-21 Grad- this included metal rocket tubes- brass replacements for the whole rack- they come as a seperate set- I'd say they may be of use to you here instead of having to make your own tubes or source metal tubes. This is the set:
http://www.voyagermodel.com/productdetails.asp?itemid=PE35601
Hope this is of some help.
Armor/AFV
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Karl187
#284
Joined: October 04, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2014 - 10:40 PM UTC
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2014 - 10:44 PM UTC
Tubes/pipes can be cut by rolling them under a sharp knife.
This is how it is done by plumbers (except for large pipes).
Place the tube on a hard surface (so that it can not bend).
Place the knife edge against the tube where the cut shall be.
Press gently (you don't want to make the tube flat ...)
Roll the tube over the surface by "sawing" the knife backwards and forwards. Make sure that the tube is rolled more than one full turn so that the kinife edge cuts all around it. Keep rolling back and forth until the tube is cut.
This is what the plumbers use but for our small size tubes we can use a scalpel to do the same work.
The tube is put in the cutter, the edge is pressed in by turning the black knob and then you rotate the pipe in the cutter.
This is how it is done by plumbers (except for large pipes).
Place the tube on a hard surface (so that it can not bend).
Place the knife edge against the tube where the cut shall be.
Press gently (you don't want to make the tube flat ...)
Roll the tube over the surface by "sawing" the knife backwards and forwards. Make sure that the tube is rolled more than one full turn so that the kinife edge cuts all around it. Keep rolling back and forth until the tube is cut.
This is what the plumbers use but for our small size tubes we can use a scalpel to do the same work.
The tube is put in the cutter, the edge is pressed in by turning the black knob and then you rotate the pipe in the cutter.
Hisham
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
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Posted: Sunday, August 10, 2014 - 10:48 PM UTC
Hey Karl, I was just checking out this set at Hobbyeasy's site.. thing is it's around $23 and I would only use four tubes.. I might still get it, I'll see.. Voyager also has a set with the rockets.. very useful.
One favour, if I may ask, could you measure the width of the tubes in millimeters?
Thanks
Hisham
One favour, if I may ask, could you measure the width of the tubes in millimeters?
Thanks
Hisham
okdoky
Joined: April 30, 2007
KitMaker: 1,597 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 11, 2014 - 12:53 AM UTC
Quoted Text
In the last close-up picture you also see the switchboard to fire the rocket tubes.
Funny...Just 4 simple switches to turn on the lights in your livingroom are used to fire missiletubes.
Not so funny for those on the receiving end though !!!!
"Lights on ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, LIGHTS OUT !!!!!"
But that is war.
Lots of possibilities for variety of vehicles including pick-up, flat bed vans, trucks and of course ,,,,,,,,, tractors !!!!
Nige
Karl187
#284
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 11, 2014 - 03:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey Karl, I was just checking out this set at Hobbyeasy's site.. thing is it's around $23 and I would only use four tubes.. I might still get it, I'll see.. Voyager also has a set with the rockets.. very useful.
One favour, if I may ask, could you measure the width of the tubes in millimeters?
Thanks
Hisham
Width appears to be 4mm. You get some rockets in the set I have- its a real nice set- will certainly add a good bit of brass weight to the BM-21 model
!RobinNilsson
TOS ModeratorJoined: November 29, 2006
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Posted: Monday, August 11, 2014 - 03:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextIn the last close-up picture you also see the switchboard to fire the rocket tubes.
Funny...Just 4 simple switches to turn on the lights in your livingroom are used to fire missiletubes.
Not so funny for those on the receiving end though !!!!
"Lights on ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, LIGHTS OUT !!!!!"
But that is war.
Lots of possibilities for variety of vehicles including pick-up, flat bed vans, trucks and of course ,,,,,,,,, tractors !!!!
Nige
One more thing to remember to not forget: The correct position of the switches when reloading ...
Hisham
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 11, 2014 - 05:09 AM UTC
Thanks for the measurement, Karl
Now I need to decide whether to just get that Voyager set with the tubes, or get plastic tubing and get the other set with just the rockets
Hisham
Now I need to decide whether to just get that Voyager set with the tubes, or get plastic tubing and get the other set with just the rockets
Hisham
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 08:49 PM UTC
Hi Hisham
Just a few more views in case you need some
You can notice the French Milan ATGM transport case on the right :
Low-budget mount
HTH
Just a few more views in case you need some
You can notice the French Milan ATGM transport case on the right :
Low-budget mount
HTH
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 09:30 PM UTC
Hi Hisham,
a colleague at work served on a BM-21 in the Soviet Army. I will ask him on monday.
Hans-Hermann
a colleague at work served on a BM-21 in the Soviet Army. I will ask him on monday.
Hans-Hermann
Hisham
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
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Posted: Thursday, August 14, 2014 - 10:11 PM UTC
There you are, Henri-Pierre!! I was wondering where you were Thanks, your contributions are always helpful!
Hans-Hermann.. I assume you're talking about my question regarding how the rockets are stored in the crates, so thanks a lot for asking your friend
Hisham
Thanks, your contributions are always helpful!Hans-Hermann.. I assume you're talking about my question regarding how the rockets are stored in the crates, so thanks a lot for asking your friend
Hisham
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2014 - 01:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
There you are, Henri-Pierre!! I was wondering where you were
You're always welcome Hisham. I was on holiday away from Internet for a few days
H.P.
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2014 - 05:07 AM UTC
Need more ?
I guess Meng's Toyota should be OK for this one :
5 (?)-tube variant :
8-tube variant :
H.P.
I guess Meng's Toyota should be OK for this one :
5 (?)-tube variant :
8-tube variant :
H.P.
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2014 - 06:13 AM UTC
Hans-Hermann.. I assume you're talking about my question regarding how the rockets are stored in the crates, so thanks a lot for asking your friend
Hisham[/quote]
Hisham I will rather ask him how big is outside diameter of the launchtubes.
Hisham
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2014 - 06:57 AM UTC
Oh, OK.. the size of the tubes is also helpful info, thanks.. I still haven't ordered any
Henri-Pierre.. the very last pic you posted - upper right corner - I see two sets of four tubes.. do those look like they are on the same vehicle? Because all the pics I've seen so far show each vehicle carrying only four tubes.. I figured maybe it had to do something with weight or something?
Thanks again, guys
Hisham
Henri-Pierre.. the very last pic you posted - upper right corner - I see two sets of four tubes.. do those look like they are on the same vehicle? Because all the pics I've seen so far show each vehicle carrying only four tubes.. I figured maybe it had to do something with weight or something?
Thanks again, guys
Hisham
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2014 - 08:35 AM UTC
I guess the 8 tubes are on the same pick-up. In fact you can even find 10-tube launchers as well, like this one fitted to a Land Cruiser used by the Hezbollah in Lebanon :
https://milinme.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/mlm-6424.jpg
(from https://milinme.wordpress.com/2011/09/page/2/ )
H.P.
https://milinme.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/mlm-6424.jpg
(from https://milinme.wordpress.com/2011/09/page/2/ )
H.P.
Hisham
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2014 - 06:19 PM UTC
Thanks for those additional links, Henri-Pierre, opens up even more options
Hisham
Hisham
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 18, 2014 - 08:42 AM UTC
Hi Hisham and all,
just back from work with some inside informations on the Grad rocket. While my friend couldn`t provide the outside diameter of the launchtube, he told me that the wall thickness is 5 mm. The tube has inside a twisted groove that spins the rocket before the stabilizing fins flip out. The rocket has a plastic cover on the rear that fits into the grooves. When the rocket is fired electrically (2.3 V current), small pins flip out and get into the grooves, thus spinning the rocket.
Bottom line is: Inside diameter 122 mm plus 2 or 3 mm for grooves plus 10 mm wall thickness is roughly 140 mm, which makes 4 mm in 1/35 scale.
The rockets weights 68kg, transported into wooden crates, weighting 100 kg total. For BM-21 reloading is done via a special reload truck. Also rocket can be manually loaded by two men. So don´t forget the electrically firing mechanism.
HTH
Hans-Hermann
just back from work with some inside informations on the Grad rocket. While my friend couldn`t provide the outside diameter of the launchtube, he told me that the wall thickness is 5 mm. The tube has inside a twisted groove that spins the rocket before the stabilizing fins flip out. The rocket has a plastic cover on the rear that fits into the grooves. When the rocket is fired electrically (2.3 V current), small pins flip out and get into the grooves, thus spinning the rocket.
Bottom line is: Inside diameter 122 mm plus 2 or 3 mm for grooves plus 10 mm wall thickness is roughly 140 mm, which makes 4 mm in 1/35 scale.
The rockets weights 68kg, transported into wooden crates, weighting 100 kg total. For BM-21 reloading is done via a special reload truck. Also rocket can be manually loaded by two men. So don´t forget the electrically firing mechanism.
HTH
Hans-Hermann
RobinNilsson
TOS ModeratorJoined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Monday, August 18, 2014 - 06:49 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Hisham and all,
just back from work with some inside informations on the Grad rocket. While my friend couldn`t provide the outside diameter of the launchtube, he told me that the wall thickness is 5 mm. The tube has inside a twisted groove that spins the rocket before the stabilizing fins flip out. The rocket has a plastic cover on the rear that fits into the grooves. When the rocket is fired electrically (2.3 V current), small pins flip out and get into the grooves, thus spinning the rocket.
Bottom line is: Inside diameter 122 mm plus 2 or 3 mm for grooves plus 10 mm wall thickness is roughly 140 mm, which makes 4 mm in 1/35 scale.
The rockets weights 68kg, transported into wooden crates, weighting 100 kg total. For BM-21 reloading is done via a special reload truck. Also rocket can be manually loaded by two men. So don´t forget the electrically firing mechanism.
HTH
Hans-Hermann
In some of the pictures (for instance the burned out pickup) in this thread it is possible to see the grooves as a raised spiral winding on the outside of the tube, other pictures (for instance the colourful one below the burned out one) show tubes that are smooth on the outside. I wonder why ....
/ Robin
Hisham
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
Armorama: 6,363 posts
Posted: Monday, August 18, 2014 - 09:14 PM UTC
Thanks for the info, Hans-Hermann.. I'll go with the 4mm tubes
As for the electric firing system.. where do you think they get the juice from? The vehicle battery then a transformer of some kind? Or maybe they carry a car battery and a transformer in the back? Any ideas?
Thanks again to all
Hisham
As for the electric firing system.. where do you think they get the juice from? The vehicle battery then a transformer of some kind? Or maybe they carry a car battery and a transformer in the back? Any ideas?
Thanks again to all
Hisham
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 18, 2014 - 09:28 PM UTC
I`will ask today.
Karl187
#284
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 18, 2014 - 10:20 PM UTC
Fantastic information Hans- great to know about how this system works. Also good to know the Voyager tubes 4mm diameter is correct!
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Monday, August 18, 2014 - 10:33 PM UTC
Quoted Text
In some of the pictures (for instance the burned out pickup) in this thread it is possible to see the grooves as a raised spiral winding on the outside of the tube, other pictures (for instance the colourful one below the burned out one) show tubes that are smooth on the outside. I wonder why ....
Here's my guess : the groove is on the other side
.Here you can see the whole length of the groove on the right side of the tube...
Reloading :
Rocket crate :
H.P.
RobinNilsson
TOS ModeratorJoined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 18, 2014 - 10:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextIn some of the pictures (for instance the burned out pickup) in this thread it is possible to see the grooves as a raised spiral winding on the outside of the tube, other pictures (for instance the colourful one below the burned out one) show tubes that are smooth on the outside. I wonder why ....
Here's my guess : the groove is on the other side
Here you can see the whole length of the groove on the right side of the tube...
H.P.
Ah Yes !! Of course. The groove makes less than a half turn around the tube .... Obvious
The groove starts as a raised triangular area around the 1 o'clock position and then turns clockwise to somewhere close to the 6 o'clock position
Thanks !/ Robin
Hisham
Joined: July 23, 2004
KitMaker: 6,856 posts
Armorama: 6,363 posts
Posted: Monday, August 18, 2014 - 11:30 PM UTC
Lots of great information, thanks, guys
Any ideas how to replicate this groove? Maybe a really thin half circle plastic strip cemented to the outside in that spiral shape? And I wonder if it exists on the tubes that come with the Trumpeter BM-21.. or the Voyager upgrade set?
Henri-Pierre, thanks a lot for those pics of the crate!
Hisham
Any ideas how to replicate this groove? Maybe a really thin half circle plastic strip cemented to the outside in that spiral shape? And I wonder if it exists on the tubes that come with the Trumpeter BM-21.. or the Voyager upgrade set?
Henri-Pierre, thanks a lot for those pics of the crate!
Hisham
RobinNilsson
TOS ModeratorJoined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 - 12:02 AM UTC
A half-round styrene strip was my plan for the BM-21 kit from ICM (brrr...)
Don't know what Trumpeters tubes look like .....
/ Robin
Review on another Forum:
http://www.missing-lynx.com/reviews/modern/trumpeter01013reviewcs_1.html
it seems that some of the tubes have the outside bulge
for the groove. It shall be visible on all tubes when viewed from the "business end".
Don't know what Trumpeters tubes look like .....
/ Robin
Review on another Forum:
http://www.missing-lynx.com/reviews/modern/trumpeter01013reviewcs_1.html
it seems that some of the tubes have the outside bulge
for the groove. It shall be visible on all tubes when viewed from the "business end".
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