Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
I think HobbyBoss screwed the pooch . . .
armyguy
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Posted: Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 01:40 AM UTC
Mike you're right in keeping this thread alive .
First you invest your money to buy a H B kit then you have to invest more money in a Italeri kit or a very expensive resin cab to fix H B mistake.
They should correct the error's on the cab, fender's and hood. Then with proof of purchase send replacement parts to the purchaser.
To keep releasing more kit's in this series with these error's is a shame and a disservice to the customer.
165thspc
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Posted: Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 08:12 AM UTC
Thanks. I certainly feel the same way!
armyguy
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Posted: Sunday, June 14, 2015 - 04:23 AM UTC
[quote] Suggestion HB; please, please, please introduce the open cab fuel truck first (So far it looks great!) And hold up on the enclosed cab until you fix this serious problem - while you still can.
To introduce the open cab version of the fuel truck or the 352 you would still have the problem of long fenders and hood if Hobby Boss does not fix their molds.
If you look the sprue shots in the review of the tankerhttp://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/225302#1898447
armyguy
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2015 - 02:46 AM UTC
Here are the test shot's of Hobby Boss fuel truck that show both open cab and closed cab parts on the sprues together. It finelly came to me were I saw them.
http://ipmsphilippines.com/test-shots/testshot-hobbyboss-135th-gmc-cckw-fuel-tanker-truck/
I was just looking at your White666 build Mike nice. Getting hard to keep up with what you have going.
panamadan
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2015 - 05:48 AM UTC
Has anyone checked these kits vs 35th scale plans?
Comparing it to another companies kit isn't the correct way to check it.
Dan
DocEvan
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2015 - 06:21 AM UTC
Many thanks for the reminder. I LOVE HobbyBoss kits from building the White 666 and the Diamond-T 981, but as I already have a half-built CMK conversion of the 750 gal tanker in the closet, I'll just finish that instead.

otherwise, I fully agree that kitbashing using the Italeri hard cab will be the best solution to the Hobby Boss problem.
165thspc
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2015 - 07:07 AM UTC
Dan; I agree comparing one model manufacture's product to another is less than ideal. However in this case I would think we are on a bit more solid ground in that both the Tamiya and Italeri model measurements agree.

Then on page one of this thread there is an image that photographically super-imposes the HB door over a photograph of the real thing and again on page two there are the actual measurements taken from a Deuce on display at the World War II Museum in New Orleans that we can all just simply scale the HB door off of.
panamadan
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2015 - 07:39 AM UTC
The discussion would end one way or another if the kit were placed on 35th scale plans.
Looking at photos is another poor way to check a kits accuracy.
Dan
armyguy
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2015 - 08:24 AM UTC
Dan you have a good point.
Now who has some 1/35 scale plans that are accurate so this can be settled . For all we know maybe Italeri and Tamiya measurements are off.But you don't need any plans or measurements to see that there is something definitely wrong with the Hobby Boss's cab and fenders.
Over on Missing Lnx there are some disappointed Deuce builders
asking the same questions.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/thread/1432140688/HobbyBoss+CCKW+352+sprue+shot
165thspc
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2015 - 07:33 PM UTC
As to comparing the HB kit to scale drawings, what drawings are we going to use? A drawing is an artist/engineer's representation of what is/was built. Does anyone have a set of original GM engineering drawings laying around? Those I would trust. However I would not trust anything dated later than 1943 - everything else is just an artist's "impression" of the vehicle and subject to human error.

I'm sure the HobbyBoss design staff produced a great looking set of scale drawings for the production of their Deuce kit but the drawings were wrong!

Being an artist, photographer and somewhat of a industrial design engineer I would suggest that comparison of the model to original photographs AND ORIGINAL vehicles would be the safest, best and only course of action to take.

When the HB fuel truck first appeared as test sprue shots, my artist's eye for proportion knew immediately that something was not right.

Personally I suspect that the HB mistake was made way back when the Bofers model was first produced. No one (including me) noticed it back then so HB management dictated to the design staff that they would continue to use the fender mold pattern they had already produced to save some minor production cost.

The HB design staff then had to shoehorn every new Deuce model into the pinched constraints of the original model's errors. Management thought they could get away with it. They were wrong!

165thspc
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2015 - 07:39 PM UTC
Thanks Dave for the connection over to the "Missing-Lnx" thread to get their read on the HB model. I had not previously seen their comments.
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2015 - 07:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Now who has some 1/35 scale plans that are accurate so this can be settled .



IIRC (I'm at work at the moment ), there are some 1/35 scale drawings in this book :



Can't vouch for their accuracy though....

H.P.
165thspc
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2015 - 07:50 PM UTC
I originally started the "Waiting for a New Deuce and a Half" thread on Armorama in the hopes of generating new market interest in what I felt was a sadly overlooked US vehicle.

HobbyBoss came along with their offering of many new 2 1/2 tonners and I was honestly excited, thinking all my wishes had come true. However while the shear number of variants that HobbyBoss is planning on introducing is commendable, the products they are delivering are sadly flawed.

Acceptable to some but regrettably not to me. The brand new HB kits will simply become parts donors in my spares box, used to convert other more correct manufacturer's kits to the variants I am interested in.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2015 - 08:18 PM UTC
Michael, your dogged persuit of this is noble, however, I think you are beating the proverbial dead horse here. The average modeler could care less if the door is 1mm too short and the fenders 1mm too long. Their general guide is, "Does it look like a WWII GMC 2 1/2 ton truck?" The answer is yes, it does. Is it perfect? No. (What model really is?) Is it close enough? Yes, it is for most.

The handful of modelers upset by this at both sites are not the average buyer/builder. HB will/has sold a bunch of these and will continue to do so.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2015 - 08:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Michael, your dogged persuit of this is noble, however, I think you are beating the proverbial dead horse here. The average modeler could care less if the door is 1mm too short and the fenders 1mm too long. Their general guide is, "Does it look like a WWII GMC 2 1/2 ton truck?" The answer is yes, it does. Is it perfect? No. (What model really is?) Is it close enough? Yes, it is for most.

The handful of modelers upset by this at both sites are not the average buyer/builder. HB will/has sold a bunch of these and will continue to do so.



I will simply "steal" the cabs from some Italeri CCKWs or wait for resin cabs/fenders, but the resin will probably be more expensive than the Italeri kits so the choice is easy ...
It is annoying the HB made a mistake but there are worse things to worry about ... If HB sell a LOT of their CCKWs then maybe Italeri could sell loose sprues with the cabs ;-) I can always hope can't I ?
/ Robin
165thspc
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2015 - 09:16 PM UTC
Like Don Quixote - tilting at windmills!

Given the quality of work I have seen down through the years exhibited on this site, if any "tilting" is going to be done then this is the right place to do it.
165thspc
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Posted: Monday, June 15, 2015 - 09:28 PM UTC
Consider the Dragon M103 debacle with all its' assorted detailing and measurement problems - doesn't it seem to you like many of the top manufactures are getting sloppy these days?

Not across the board with every model but now and again? But it seems to happen all too often these days.

On the plus side of the ledger; I could also say that the White 666 truck from HobbyBoss seems to be a tour de force of model engineering perfection! Proof that they are well capable of doing very excellent work.


OK - I'll be quiet for awhile. Have a good one. Cheers!
165thspc
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Posted: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 - 07:34 PM UTC
Not my words but those of Dennis Struk:
(From the thread "Waiting for a New Deuce and a Half")


Quoted Text



The best way to fix the HOBBY BOSS kits is to chuck their Steel Cabs, and buy a ridiculously expensive resin after-market cab, or you can spend a FRACTION of the money and buy an ITALERI Deuce-and-a-half, and with a little bit of finagling, you can fit the ITALERI Steel Cabs onto the HOBBY BOSS OR the TAMIYA, or even the HELLER kits... Need a Soft Cab Jimmy? Use your left-over TAMIYA Soft Cabs with whichever Hard Cab kit that you like. I NEVER throw ANYTHING away, personally...

As I said earlier, I'll just keep on buying the old ITAERI Jimmies, and dress them up with the ABER PE sets, which are THE BEST PE sets that money can buy for the 1/35 Jimmies... These PE sets are easily adaptable to ANY 1/35 Jimmy, even though they are specifically designed to be used with the ITALERI kits. Both Hard Cab and Soft Cab PE sets are offered by ABER...

For a Cargo Box Tarp, I use the HELLER kit's Tarp. The downside of that is that the HELLER Tarp is molded with TOO TIGHT a fit to properly position it on the TAMIYA or ITALERI Cargo Boxes. A LOT of filing and sanding is required to make the Tarp fit properly, and at the right level vis-a-vis the Cargo Box... Some hobby dealers sell an after-market resin Tarp to fit the TAMIYA Jimmy, but at an average of $40 bucks apiece, I think I'll just use some elbow grease, and use the HELLER Tarps, instead...

165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 05:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text



For a Cargo Box Tarp, I use the HELLER kit's Tarp. The downside of that is that the HELLER Tarp is molded with TOO TIGHT a fit to properly position it on the TAMIYA or ITALERI Cargo Boxes. A LOT of filing and sanding is required to make the Tarp fit properly, and at the right level vis-a-vis the Cargo Box... Some hobby dealers sell an after-market resin Tarp to fit the TAMIYA Jimmy, but at an average of $40 bucks apiece, I think I'll just use some elbow grease, and use the HELLER Tarps, instead...

[/quote]

F.Y.I. I just swap the entire Heller load box onto the Tamiya Jimmy - problem solved. That also gives me a steel load box variant instead of always using the very nice Tamiya wood load box.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 06:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Dan; I agree comparing one model manufacture's product to another is less than ideal. However in this case I would think we are on a bit more solid ground in that both the Tamiya and Italeri model measurements agree.

Then on page one of this thread there is an image that photographically super-imposes the HB door over a photograph of the real thing and again on page two there are the actual measurements taken from a Deuce on display at the World War II Museum in New Orleans that we can all just simply scale the HB door off of.



DITTO on ALL of the above. I have several actual US ARMY Tech Manuals, and the TAMIYA/ITALERI scaled-down dimensions are VERY CLOSE to the dimensions of the 1:1 scale -352 and -353 Jimmies in the Tech Manuals... Just thought I'd share that with the "doubters". It stands to reason that ITALERI got the shapes and dimensions of their Steel Cabs right, even with a very slight margin of error when superimposing the ITALERI Steel Cab parts over photos and/or drawings of actual Steel Cabs...
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 06:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Consider the Dragon M103 debacle with all its' assorted detailing and measurement problems - doesn't it seem to you like many of the top manufactures are getting sloppy these days?

Not across the board with every model but now and again? But it seems to happen all too often these days.

On the plus side of the ledger; I could also say that the White 666 truck from HobbyBoss seems to be a tour de force of model engineering perfection! Proof that they are well capable of doing very excellent work.


OK - I'll be quiet for awhile. Have a good one. Cheers!



They (DRAGON, in particular) GET SLOPPY WHERE US VEHICLES ARE CONCERNED!!! YET, they spend money ridiculously when it comes to their UMPTEENS of TIGER Is, OVERLY PROLIFIC Pz.Kpfw.IIIs and TIRESOME Sd.Kfz.10 Half Tracks... I'll probably get some FLAK over the above statements from the "Panzer-Heads", but I really don't much care- These are only my opinions, and EVERYONE on this site is entitled to their own...

Cases in point of their SLOPPINESS IN EXECUTION AND LAISSEZ-FAIR ATTITUDES in producing AMERICAN Vehicles are their 1/35 US Jeeps, M4-series Shermans and M3/M4-based vehicles, the aforementioned M103 Heavy Tanks, their M6 Heavy Tanks, and their ENTIRE LINE of WWII US Half Tracks, just to name a few.

The EXCEPTIONS to this seemingly-biased, indifferent attention to US Vehicles, are DRAGON's EXCELLENT M1-series Abrams kits, #'s 3535, 3536, and 3556, and their M48A Patton-series kits...

Also, BRONCO did a BEAUTIFUL JOB with their M24 Chaffee-series kits, as did AFV CLUB with their version of the M24, which some modellers favor over the BRONCO kit, for whatever personal reasons. I haven't bought any of the HOBBY BOSS White 666s or the MERIT M19, or AFV CLUB's M60A1, or even any of MIRROR MODELS' Diamond-Ts... YET... But I will, in due time...
JPTRR
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#051
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Posted: Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 07:18 PM UTC
Interesting thread. Informative. Educational. Fun.

I admit that when I saw this photo that I was thinking, 'HobbyBoss may have made some errors, but Michael build a superb model'!


No joke, I honestly thought that was a 1/35 model. Perhaps the lighting, perhaps the angle and distance that gives the illusion of it being "modeller's-eye view". Perhaps the cliche cargo in back (not really cliche). What tipped me off that it is the real deal is the lack of preshading and color modulation!

And honestly, if it were not for the trash can and bench behind it, I don't think people would be able to tell it is NOT a model!
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 07:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Mike you're right in keeping this thread alive .
First you invest your money to buy a H B kit then you have to invest more money in a Italeri kit or a very expensive resin cab to fix H B mistake.
They should correct the error's on the cab, fender's and hood. Then with proof of purchase send replacement parts to the purchaser.
To keep releasing more kit's in this series with these error's is a shame and a disservice to the customer.



AGREE, EMPHATICALLY!!! That's why I keep it simple, and buy ITALERI's ancient Jimmies!!! Buy an ABER Soft or Hard Cab PE kit and a TAMIYA Jimmy for the Tire/Wheel assemblies, or an after-market Tire/Wheel set to go with the ITALERI kit, and YOU'RE ALL SET! After all that I've read regarding the HOBBY BOSS Jimmies and their problems, I don't even bother with them! Buying an ITALERI Jimmy or a HELLER Jimmy AND a TAMIYA Jimmy for the Wheel/Tire assemblies, saves me time, money, and aggravation! YES, you CAN buy two (ITALERI & TAMIYA, or HELLER & TAMIYA) kits for LESS MONEY than you're going to spend on a SINGLE, INCORRECT HOBBY BOSS Jimmy... I know, because I've done it. REPEATEDLY...
JPTRR
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Posted: Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 07:24 PM UTC
Michael,

Forgot to add that your trucks look great! I am a fan of your work. Love the Cub in the truck!
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, June 25, 2015 - 07:32 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Michael, your dogged persuit of this is noble, however, I think you are beating the proverbial dead horse here. The average modeler could care less if the door is 1mm too short and the fenders 1mm too long. Their general guide is, "Does it look like a WWII GMC 2 1/2 ton truck?" The answer is yes, it does. Is it perfect? No. (What model really is?) Is it close enough? Yes, it is for most.

The handful of modelers upset by this at both sites are not the average buyer/builder. HB will/has sold a bunch of these and will continue to do so.



It's not so much the dimensions that are in question with the HOBBY BOSS Jimmies- It is much more the SHAPE of the Doors and Steel Cabs that has a lot of soft-skins modellers in such a funk. If it were simply the 1mm differences in dimensions, I don't think that there would have been anywhere NEAR such a hue & cry and gnashing of teeth over HOBBY BOSS' Steel Cab Jimmies...

In Mike's defense, Mike is a HUGE soft-skins enthusiast, and I EMPATHIZE with Mike's views on this subject. I myself, am a big soft-skins fan, ESPECIALLY where US WWII vehicles are concerned...