Hello,
I am finishing up a couple of kits, one of them being the 1/35 Tamiya BMW motorcycle with sidecar. I am planning on using the markings to assign the vehicle and riders to one of the SS dvisions, but have a question regarding the appropriate color for the uniforms. The riders are wearing greatcoats and I have seen several images of German soldiers wearing greatcoats with a green collar. Did the SS use green collars, or were they black and were rank insignia and SS insignia on the collars? Or were the greatcoats all the same color? The greatcoats on the figures are buttoned up so you can not see the uniforms underneath. Thanks for the help!

The dark green collars were standard on greatcoats until 1942 and from then onwards they were field grey the same as the greatcoat. I have seen greatcoats with collar insignia but they tend to be early war and after that they tend to disappear. The sleeve eagle is standard appears to be the same. I suppose it depends which sort of period you are planning on modelling. It would appear that officers tended to wear the collar insignia as they would purchase their greatcoats privately and naturally use a better quality cloth and as they were having garments individually tailored that they would have SS runes and rank added. Not a definitive answer but hope it's of some help.

Thanks for the reply. I am not sure exactly sure which year I will be modelling, but I am leaning towards a winter dio with a non-armored cab SDKFZ 7/1 Flakvierling. The flak crew will be wearing white winter garments. My idea is that the motorcycle has arrived to deliver a message or is just passing through and the flak crew is on alert due to the sounds of Allied aircraft approaching. I am planning to paint both the Flakvierling and motorcycle, panzer gray with a winter whitewash. It will be my first attempt using the hairspray method. I can't decide which SS division to use, the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. I am leaning towards the 3rd because I like their insignia. Not overly concerned on being super historically accurate, but at least plausible.

Hi Art ... I do believe that the motorcycle riders wore a rubberized type of long coat but since you are planning more of a winter dio (did they really use motorcycles in the winter?) then I guess they could be wearing the normal great coat..

Rick

I would also go with greatcoats for the motorcyle crew as the rubberized coat didn't give much warmth (neither did the greatcoat!). Motorcycles were occasionally used in winter, but in most of the pics I've seen, the motorcycles are being towed by a car or truck! Since the gun crew will all be wearing winter camo suits it sounds like it won't be earlier than winter 42 -43; in the first year everyone just froze in their greatcoats.

Just thinking to myself .. (might as well tell you too .. The first year of the winter uniform , you would be better to make the other color mouse grey instead of any kind of camo scheme as these seem to be seen more later in the war.

The Tamiya motorcycle crew are wearing the motorcycle coat. This has a "pelmet" across the shoulders at the rear which is lacking on a greatcoat. It could be gathered up and fastened between the legs for wear on the bike. It was a single colour, grey green waterproof fabric, although it had a cloth collar, and no badges were worn on it except shoulder straps, so unless the riders had transfers on their helmets it would not be immediately apparent they were SS apart from the licence plate.
Motorcycles were used in the winter, even in Russia, and various steps were taken to make them slightly more comfortable in the low temperatures. This included the issue of a face mask, made from a gas mask with no filter, and various heated elements on handlebars and in the sidecar. The handlebar muffs had warm air piped in from the exhausts.
Just for the record, apart from the Blitzkrieg in the West in 1940, 3rd SS division "Totenkopf" fought only on the Eastern Front from 1941 on.

Dear Art,

Waffen SS soldiers are wearing greatcoats with black collars, without any rank or SS insignia on the collars. Only SS eagle on the left arm.

See the following pic for reference:



So, no matter which SS division to use in your diorama.

Regards
Giovanni

Hi Steve, you're right about the motorcycle greatcoat, quite different from that one for infantry, grey green waterproof fabric. But check the figures provided in the kit. Sometimes riders are wearing the normal greatcoat.

Regards
Giovanni

Giovanni,
Yes you are right about some motorcyclists wearing greatcoats, also the Special Winter Clothing. There is a photo of an HJ despatch rider wearing the U boat leathers, which would be very practical. But I'm pretty sure the Tamiya riders have the motorcycle coat. The two accompanying infantry are indeed dressed in greatcoats, but I'm pretty sure Art wouldn't elect to use them, they are very old figures now and pretty poor! I'm not sure where the black collar comes from, none of my references show this, and in fact your picture shows a bottle green one. As the Waffen SS expanded, it was often forced to use Heer stocks of clothing suitably badged up. There are photos of fully badged up greatcoats with SS collar dogs and ranking, these are usually earlier in the war, some even have cuff titles. As the war progressed, the tendency was to revert to a badgeless field grey collar, similar to the Heer pattern, and in line with the removal of bottle green collars from tunics, the only SS insignia being the arm eagle as you say.

Hi Steve,

Yes, I fully agree with you after checking the Tamiya kit: riders are equipped with motorcycle greatcoat, the Kradmantel.

From my files:

quote

The motorcyclist's protective coat (Kradmantel) was introduced in 1934 and designed to be worn over the standard field uniform and equipment, so they were cut quite large. These coats were quite popular amongst troops for their stylish appearance and functionality. They were commonly worn by non-motorcycle personnel in spite of regulations. This model is made of stone-grey rubberized canvas and features correct field grey buttons, zinc dish buttons, bottle green wool collar and enlisted shoulder boards with infantry waffenfarbe.

unquote

Thanks for your clarification!
Regards

Giovanni