_GOTOBOTTOM
AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Help on panzer crew rank & insignia?
Motives
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 444 posts
Armorama: 428 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2014 - 12:43 AM UTC
Hi

I recently purchased the AM works panzer crew set to detail my little crew that I'm painting to go with my Pz.IV build:



Looking at the set I realize I have NO idea on how to use it... Instructions are pretty bare bone so I wondered if anyone could take the time and guide me to what configuration of ranks and insignias a "typical" tank crew would sport during the ~42 time period?

Looking at pictures I have a basic understanding of what should be used but my biggest issue is what markings goes on the respective crewmen and what rank they would have.
The commander is always an officer right? But what about the rest of the crew?
I will showcase all 5 crewmen.

Any help is appreciated!
easyco69
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 2,275 posts
Armorama: 2,233 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2014 - 02:13 AM UTC
Thats a tough one.
Hope this may help.




Panzer Crews
Motives
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 444 posts
Armorama: 428 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2014 - 02:38 AM UTC
Cheers David

I found some additional info over at network54:

Vehicle Commander:
Feldwebel, Unteroffizier or Oberfeldwebel, Leutnant

Loader:
Gefreiter

Gunner:
Gefreiter, Unteroffizier, (Unter and Obergefreiter too?)

Radio Operator:
Schutze, (Oberschutze?)

Driver
Gefreiter/Oberschutze


Does that sound like a "logical" panzer crew?
Hohenstaufen
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: December 13, 2004
KitMaker: 2,192 posts
Armorama: 1,615 posts
Posted: Thursday, September 25, 2014 - 11:32 PM UTC
Johan,
As in any other army, the ranks of the panzer crew would depend on the position of the tank within the unit. For example the company or battalion commanders tank, the commander was of course the officer concerned, the remainder of the crew may all be of NCO rank, e.g Unteroffizer/Unterscharfuhrer (SS) or above. In the battalion or regimental HQ section, other tanks would be commanded by the Adjutant, usually a Lieutenant or possibly a Hauptman/Hauptsturmfuhrer at regiment level, the Ordnance Officer, also a Lieutenant, and the RSM/CSM (Hauptfeld- or Stabsfeldwebel/Hauptscharfuhrer). The RSM/CSM wore the two cuff rings of "Der Speiss" on both forearms.
Within a tank platoon, the commanders of the tanks other than the platoon commanders would likely be the platoon sergeant (a Feldwebel or Oberscharfuhrer), the remainder would be commanded by senior corporals or lance sergeants - Unteroffizier/Unterscharfuhrer, as they were in effect the section commanders. Within the crew, the gunner was seen as the 2ic, and a tank commander in training, so he would, even in an "ordinary" tank, perhaps be a Gefreiter or Obergefreiter, SS equivalent Sturmann (one stripe) or Rottenfuhrer (two). The remainder of the crew would be ordinary soldiers, but a Panzerschutze was usually promoted Panzeroberschutze (one star on arm) after 6 months effective service. The loader and radio operator/front machine gunner were seen as the junior members of the crew.
Other insignia depend on the uniform - I note the sheet includes rank insignia for winter uniforms (the green and yellow stripes and oak leaves).
Experienced tank crew would probably all have the panzer assault badge on the left lower breast. Other possibilities are Panzer Destruction badges on upper right arm (the silver strips), and of course bravery awards, Iron Cross etc.
Hope this is of help.
Motives
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 444 posts
Armorama: 428 posts
Posted: Friday, September 26, 2014 - 07:35 AM UTC
Wow Steve, thanks for your incredibly informative post!
I definitly think I got what I need now . I will go reference-hunting and then do a little write up on how my crew will be portrayed
Motives
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 444 posts
Armorama: 428 posts
Posted: Friday, September 26, 2014 - 07:47 AM UTC
Actually... One more question

What does the white/red/white tab on the collar stand for and what version is used where? I have seen there are different shapes on the decalsheet and also in period pictures
gastec
Visit this Community
Auckland, New Zealand
Joined: February 03, 2014
KitMaker: 1,042 posts
Armorama: 871 posts
Posted: Friday, September 26, 2014 - 08:12 AM UTC
Isn't that a medal ribbon?

Gary
Motives
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 444 posts
Armorama: 428 posts
Posted: Friday, September 26, 2014 - 09:04 AM UTC
I learned it's the "Iron cross 2nd class".

But are all the different versions on the decal sheet just variants of the same award?
Motives
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 444 posts
Armorama: 428 posts
Posted: Friday, September 26, 2014 - 10:34 PM UTC
So here is my proposed crew. Any comments and feedback welcome!

Hohenstaufen
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: December 13, 2004
KitMaker: 2,192 posts
Armorama: 1,615 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 27, 2014 - 12:33 PM UTC
Looks a likely crew to me. The ribbon on the lapel is indeed the EKII (Iron Cross 2nd class). The tunic also bears the cuff rings of "Der Speiss", the Iron Cross 1st class and the tank assault badge. Not sure what the "other ribbons" are on your decal sheet, can't quite make them out (my eyes/age). One possibility is the "Frozen Meat Award", soldier slang for the Winter 1941-42 award. This is also a combination of red, black and white, but the stripes are in a different order (Black/red/white/black/white/red/black). Awarded to all German soldiers who served in Russia during this period (and survived!). Alternatively they may be different sizes of the EKII for different uniforms.
Motives
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 444 posts
Armorama: 428 posts
Posted: Monday, September 29, 2014 - 09:05 PM UTC
Thanks Steve
I'm painting now, hope to try the decals later this week
Motives
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: October 15, 2013
KitMaker: 444 posts
Armorama: 428 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 - 08:53 PM UTC
For anyone interested, I got the first set of collar patches and shoulder straps on:



One weird thing with this set is that dragon has molded all figures without ties so they tend to look very casual with their buttoned up shirts
chumpo
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: August 30, 2010
KitMaker: 749 posts
Armorama: 521 posts
Posted: Monday, October 06, 2014 - 01:13 PM UTC
I used to complain to myself on how hard it was to paint the collar tabs and shoulder boards , then I came across this and duh , why bother to try to paint them when it easier to just get the decals . Silly me .
 _GOTOTOP