Hi,
the AA plates needed to be changed as the turret wouldn't turn 360° with those 100% rectangular... I added a small détal on the rear and remade the hatches handles (made them double)
and here is beginning of the turret production
spit
Hosted by Darren Baker
E-50 Standardpanzer build log
spitfire303
Vendee, France
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Posted: Monday, December 08, 2014 - 04:50 AM UTC
Posted: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 - 12:39 PM UTC
@spitfire303 – Pawel,
Must say you are making good progress on this vehicle. The upper hull looks terrific. I do have a question here are you going to leave the air exhaust opening on the engine deck without any AA armor plates?
This turret looks quite interesting already. I like the casting texture and cast in foundry markings. Just wondering, if you’re going to do anything about the rather obvious gap between the turret roof and commander’s copula? Was the copula just placed there for the photos or is it already fixed to the turret?
~ Eddy
Must say you are making good progress on this vehicle. The upper hull looks terrific. I do have a question here are you going to leave the air exhaust opening on the engine deck without any AA armor plates?
This turret looks quite interesting already. I like the casting texture and cast in foundry markings. Just wondering, if you’re going to do anything about the rather obvious gap between the turret roof and commander’s copula? Was the copula just placed there for the photos or is it already fixed to the turret?
~ Eddy
spitfire303
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Posted: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 - 05:27 PM UTC
Thank you Eddy for your feedback.
Well, I've asked myself the question about the air intakes too. There are two obvious choices: T II style without any protection in the middle or the Panther like supplied by Voyager and others (however I've never seen any real time picture). Visually, I would go for the T II design to leave some grills visible. don't really know yet. What would be your choice?
About the commander cupola. I haven't noticed the gap... what can I do? Fill it with putty? Any similar historical pic available of another vehicle is available (with similar layout turret/cupola)?
thx
spit
Well, I've asked myself the question about the air intakes too. There are two obvious choices: T II style without any protection in the middle or the Panther like supplied by Voyager and others (however I've never seen any real time picture). Visually, I would go for the T II design to leave some grills visible. don't really know yet. What would be your choice?
About the commander cupola. I haven't noticed the gap... what can I do? Fill it with putty? Any similar historical pic available of another vehicle is available (with similar layout turret/cupola)?
thx
spit
ninjrk
Alabama, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 - 12:05 AM UTC
Truthfully, I think you're probably OK. The Panther F had a similar overhang visible in both the few photographs as well as the Dragon kit.
spitfire303
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Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 - 12:44 AM UTC
Hi guys,
Matt,
thank you for those very helpful images. I'll eave as it is.
I'm back with the build (soory for the delay...).
Let's continue the work on the turret.
Here is the super idea I had to fit the plates....
JUST... DON'T DO IT.. NEVER It's impossible to fit the rods to pre made wholes in the plates...
A different approach with home made supports (made of PE left overs)
And here come the plates
I continue. I think this evening I'll add loops on the sides of the turret (like march 45 Tiger II)
spit
Matt,
thank you for those very helpful images. I'll eave as it is.
I'm back with the build (soory for the delay...).
Let's continue the work on the turret.
Here is the super idea I had to fit the plates....
JUST... DON'T DO IT.. NEVER It's impossible to fit the rods to pre made wholes in the plates...
A different approach with home made supports (made of PE left overs)
And here come the plates
I continue. I think this evening I'll add loops on the sides of the turret (like march 45 Tiger II)
spit
Jamesite
United Kingdom
Joined: December 05, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 - 02:54 PM UTC
Pawel,
Excellent work as always my friend! So far very good all around. My knowledge of these paper panzers is very limited so I can't say too much on the 'accuracy' front.
The paper panzer parts all look very good. Interesting to see how those Photo Etch casting numbers work out, could prove very useful for a variety of applications. Likewise keen to have a look at the figures when they arrive. Hopefully I can do them justice.
As I mentioned to you, but for the benefit of all, the roof armour may have been good to assemble by adding rods to the upper sheet of armour then adding the second sheet and finally adding the whole lot to the turret roof. Either way, looks to be a fiddly job and good to be out of the way!
Keep up the good work,
James
Excellent work as always my friend! So far very good all around. My knowledge of these paper panzers is very limited so I can't say too much on the 'accuracy' front.
The paper panzer parts all look very good. Interesting to see how those Photo Etch casting numbers work out, could prove very useful for a variety of applications. Likewise keen to have a look at the figures when they arrive. Hopefully I can do them justice.
As I mentioned to you, but for the benefit of all, the roof armour may have been good to assemble by adding rods to the upper sheet of armour then adding the second sheet and finally adding the whole lot to the turret roof. Either way, looks to be a fiddly job and good to be out of the way!
Keep up the good work,
James
Biggles2
Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 - 10:16 PM UTC
Did you cut off the inner flanges of the armored exhaust covers?
Or did you construct it so that the 'mystery bracket' is fitted on top of the flanges and longer bolts holding both pieces on? Otherwise, without inner flanges, the exhaust covers are only held on by the outer bolts and pressure from the 'mystery bracket' being jammed between them. It's all hypothetical, anyway!
Or did you construct it so that the 'mystery bracket' is fitted on top of the flanges and longer bolts holding both pieces on? Otherwise, without inner flanges, the exhaust covers are only held on by the outer bolts and pressure from the 'mystery bracket' being jammed between them. It's all hypothetical, anyway!
Posted: Thursday, February 05, 2015 - 12:58 AM UTC
Turret is looking really good there Pawel,
Perhaps some spare track links added to the rear most sides of the turret? How about a hatch handle for the rear escape hatch like that fitted to late panthers? And maybe a lifting ring of sorts for the cast gun barrel piece?
Keep it coming I'm enjoying this . . .
~Eddy
Perhaps some spare track links added to the rear most sides of the turret? How about a hatch handle for the rear escape hatch like that fitted to late panthers? And maybe a lifting ring of sorts for the cast gun barrel piece?
Keep it coming I'm enjoying this . . .
~Eddy
spitfire303
Vendee, France
Joined: December 22, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, February 05, 2015 - 02:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Pawel,
Excellent work as always my friend! So far very good all around. My knowledge of these paper panzers is very limited so I can't say too much on the 'accuracy' front.
The paper panzer parts all look very good. Interesting to see how those Photo Etch casting numbers work out, could prove very useful for a variety of applications. Likewise keen to have a look at the figures when they arrive. Hopefully I can do them justice.
As I mentioned to you, but for the benefit of all, the roof armour may have been good to assemble by adding rods to the upper sheet of armour then adding the second sheet and finally adding the whole lot to the turret roof. Either way, looks to be a fiddly job and good to be out of the way!
Keep up the good work,
James
Hi James,
nice to see you back on armorama. It's always nice to have old friends close by. Thank you for the kind words. You know the good thing about the paper panzers is that they never existed (most of them) and we can do whatever we like! So no need to be an expert.
The casting numbers and all other PPP items are really, really nice and... original. The only fear I have is the tiny size of those numbers. One careful must be to
I'm sure the figures will be really outstanding after your treatment.
About the turret plates. The whole problem here (at least it was for me) that there are 12 holes so 12 rods to fit in. The main issue is that the rods or at least not all of them are 100% straight. This makes the second plate almost impossible to fit in. There surely will be at least one rod not aligned and when you'll e trying to fit it in another one will slip away. That's what happened to me with the rods on the turret.
For me one of the solutions (not the one I've chosen) would be to put the two plates together and put some spacers between them. When ready, you could put the rods into both of them at the same time and glue the whole structure to the turret. Why I haven't chosen this solution was the fact I remembered doing it on a Panther and the issue was that the rods were not very well glued to the roof. It was quite fragile structure. That's why in this build I made the 5 PE supports, CA glued the plates and only than used the 0.5mm copper wire rods an again CA glue. I almost finished adding the loops to both sides. I like the way it looks. Pictures soon.
Biggles,
the inner part of the exhaust cover with the bolts must be cut off so the towing device fits. It is designed as the part of the exhaust (which must be cut off) was already there. If you look on the picture of the unfinished T II on the first page you'll see it looks quite right.
Eddy,
thanks for posting. I'll surely try to add some more details.
thank you all
spit
Biggles2
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Posted: Thursday, February 05, 2015 - 09:21 PM UTC
My question was not whether it's right or not, because it does look properly placed, rather, if the bracket is occupying the bolt holes originally intended for the inner exhaust cover flanges, does that mean there are now only 3 bolts holding each exhaust cover, on the outer flanges? Or if the bracket was positioned over, or on top of, the inner exhaust cover flanges, and both units bolted together on the same, but longer, bolts. On the prototype, that is.
Posted: Friday, February 06, 2015 - 12:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
My question was not whether it's right or not, because it does look properly placed, rather, if the bracket is occupying the bolt holes originally intended for the inner exhaust cover flanges, does that mean there are now only 3 bolts holding each exhaust cover, on the outer flanges? Or if the bracket was positioned over, or on top of, the inner exhaust cover flanges, and both units bolted together on the same, but longer, bolts. On the prototype, that is.
Ola Biggles
To answer your question. It was our thoughts that the towing bracket was simply mounted on top of the inner brackets of the exhaust covers. We kinda figured that that middle section would be secured through and through with longer bolts in the factory. It would have been the easiest solution. When I made the master for that set I decided to have the bolt detail on both the exhaust covers as well as the towing device for the simple reason that some modelers might not choose to add the towing device. And if they did shaving off 6 bolts would have been easier then adding and aligning 6.
Pawel.
Great job so far mate. It's a joy seeing this built come together. I'm currently working slowly on putting a late panther G together to mount the einheitsturm on it.
DaGreatQueeg
Napier, New Zealand
Joined: August 01, 2005
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Posted: Friday, February 06, 2015 - 01:46 AM UTC
Clean and interesting build Pawel! Nice to see a collection of the PPP extras too as I've been eyeing a few of those up myself ...
cheers
Brent
cheers
Brent
rinaldi119
Oregon, United States
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Posted: Friday, February 06, 2015 - 03:19 AM UTC
This is coming along swimmingly... I have a lot of the PPP items too, beautifully cast I must say. Wonderful work so far!
On the chassis -- Trumpeter's entire E50/75 series of kits -- I'm of the opinion they screwed up not understanding tank engineering in general. For starters, I feel all the wheels stations should have at least be fitted with double wheels a la the Panther II, E100, and Tiger II chassis. To me there is no way the tonnage being reported for this chassis series (the E75 would likely have topped 90-tons fully loaded) can survive long in the field on a single thin disc wheel per axle...the wheel bearings alone would have to be magically impressive to handle such stresses as Trumpeter has designed it.
I brought this up to John at PPP and we were in general agreement. Trumpeter's arrangement only looks superficially correct from direct side view as they likely only had that Panzer Tract volume as ref. The suspension also sits way too high on these kits, by how much I don't know exactly, but I've been lowering my kits like a good SoCal car guy should.
On the chassis -- Trumpeter's entire E50/75 series of kits -- I'm of the opinion they screwed up not understanding tank engineering in general. For starters, I feel all the wheels stations should have at least be fitted with double wheels a la the Panther II, E100, and Tiger II chassis. To me there is no way the tonnage being reported for this chassis series (the E75 would likely have topped 90-tons fully loaded) can survive long in the field on a single thin disc wheel per axle...the wheel bearings alone would have to be magically impressive to handle such stresses as Trumpeter has designed it.
I brought this up to John at PPP and we were in general agreement. Trumpeter's arrangement only looks superficially correct from direct side view as they likely only had that Panzer Tract volume as ref. The suspension also sits way too high on these kits, by how much I don't know exactly, but I've been lowering my kits like a good SoCal car guy should.
spitfire303
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Posted: Friday, February 06, 2015 - 04:34 AM UTC
Thank you all for your comments.
Robert,
it's good to have someone from the staff on board to give precise answers
Mike,
thanks for stopping by. Interesting thing about the suspension. I agree it's too economical version... but weren't the German tanks known for having troubles with suspension parts? Well, it wouldn't be easy to change it now...
I do remember some of your (beautiful) panthers with lowered suspension.
ok, a mini update.
I must apologize PPP crew but I did a lot of holes in your beautiful turret
I've chosen the loops rather than the spare tracks. I hope that during the painting /weathering process it may give some interesting possibilities.
thanks for watching
spit
Robert,
it's good to have someone from the staff on board to give precise answers
Mike,
thanks for stopping by. Interesting thing about the suspension. I agree it's too economical version... but weren't the German tanks known for having troubles with suspension parts? Well, it wouldn't be easy to change it now...
I do remember some of your (beautiful) panthers with lowered suspension.
ok, a mini update.
I must apologize PPP crew but I did a lot of holes in your beautiful turret
I've chosen the loops rather than the spare tracks. I hope that during the painting /weathering process it may give some interesting possibilities.
thanks for watching
spit
MikeyBugs95
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Posted: Friday, February 06, 2015 - 12:25 PM UTC
I was just reading the beginning of the thread and saw the mystery brackets. Has schurzen ever been mounted to a panther? What if it was for some hair brained scheme to mount two tanks together? Or maybe to have a bolt-on weapons station/platform?
Biggles2
Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Friday, February 06, 2015 - 08:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextMy question was not whether it's right or not, because it does look properly placed, rather, if the bracket is occupying the bolt holes originally intended for the inner exhaust cover flanges, does that mean there are now only 3 bolts holding each exhaust cover, on the outer flanges? Or if the bracket was positioned over, or on top of, the inner exhaust cover flanges, and both units bolted together on the same, but longer, bolts. On the prototype, that is.
Ola Biggles
To answer your question. It was our thoughts that the towing bracket was simply mounted on top of the inner brackets of the exhaust covers. We kinda figured that that middle section would be secured through and through with longer bolts in the factory. It would have been the easiest solution. When I made the master for that set I decided to have the bolt detail on both the exhaust covers as well as the towing device for the simple reason that some modelers might not choose to add the towing device. And if they did shaving off 6 bolts would have been easier then adding and aligning 6.
Pawel.
Great job so far mate. It's a joy seeing this built come together. I'm currently working slowly on putting a late panther G together to mount the einheitsturm on it.
Thank you. That answers perfectly my trivial question. So the bracket does not sit flush with the rear plate, rather there is a stand-off space of the thickness of the exhaust cover flanges? I couldn't tell this from the pics.
Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2015 - 11:57 PM UTC
Pawel
I like that idea with the loops. That will indeed give a lot of options with weathering further on. Already looking forward to it.
@ Biggles
Correct... The towing device indeed does not sit flush on the backplate. As it is bolted on top of the flanges of the exhaust cover there is a small void between the exhaust covers and under the towing device.
I like that idea with the loops. That will indeed give a lot of options with weathering further on. Already looking forward to it.
@ Biggles
Correct... The towing device indeed does not sit flush on the backplate. As it is bolted on top of the flanges of the exhaust cover there is a small void between the exhaust covers and under the towing device.
Jamesite
United Kingdom
Joined: December 05, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2015 - 09:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi James,
nice to see you back on armorama. It's always nice to have old friends close by. Thank you for the kind words. You know the good thing about the paper panzers is that they never existed (most of them) and we can do whatever we like! So no need to be an expert.
The casting numbers and all other PPP items are really, really nice and... original. The only fear I have is the tiny size of those numbers. One careful must be to
I'm sure the figures will be really outstanding after your treatment.
About the turret plates. The whole problem here (at least it was for me) that there are 12 holes so 12 rods to fit in. The main issue is that the rods or at least not all of them are 100% straight. This makes the second plate almost impossible to fit in. There surely will be at least one rod not aligned and when you'll e trying to fit it in another one will slip away. That's what happened to me with the rods on the turret.
For me one of the solutions (not the one I've chosen) would be to put the two plates together and put some spacers between them. When ready, you could put the rods into both of them at the same time and glue the whole structure to the turret. Why I haven't chosen this solution was the fact I remembered doing it on a Panther and the issue was that the rods were not very well glued to the roof. It was quite fragile structure. That's why in this build I made the 5 PE supports, CA glued the plates and only than used the 0.5mm copper wire rods an again CA glue. I almost finished adding the loops to both sides. I like the way it looks. Pictures soon.
thank you all
spit
Pawel,
A fair solution my friend.
The point is it looks the part now anyway!
I like the idea of the turret loops, but I'm not sure if the gauge of wire you've used may be overscale? It's difficult to tell from the pics however, but IIRC the loops on late panthers etc. were quite fine.
Michael, I must say I agree with your comments on the suspension, the appearance is very strange and looks almost fragile. I'd expect to have seen more roadwheels per station.
Pawel is this something you can try to emulate with the extra wheels you now have?
Cheers,
James
spitfire303
Vendee, France
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Posted: Friday, February 13, 2015 - 03:56 AM UTC
Hi,
Finally I put most of the pieces together. As you may notice (or not) I will try to use the DML's T II sprocket and idler and rear . The fact is that Trump parts are not bad but DML casting is.... far better. I will do the definite check when the tracks will be put together. Well, I must say I haven't done a lot of modifications beside adding some DML parts. I thought about adding a simple handle on the rear door of the turret but there is already one directly above so I thought that it would look good.
so here it is (wheels are only fitted with silly putty)
PPP figures are leaving tomorrow morning to James so he can do some nice work. It's getting wormer here in France so I will be able to start the painting process in my garage soon(difficult to paint when the temperature is below 10°C!!)
spit
Finally I put most of the pieces together. As you may notice (or not) I will try to use the DML's T II sprocket and idler and rear . The fact is that Trump parts are not bad but DML casting is.... far better. I will do the definite check when the tracks will be put together. Well, I must say I haven't done a lot of modifications beside adding some DML parts. I thought about adding a simple handle on the rear door of the turret but there is already one directly above so I thought that it would look good.
so here it is (wheels are only fitted with silly putty)
PPP figures are leaving tomorrow morning to James so he can do some nice work. It's getting wormer here in France so I will be able to start the painting process in my garage soon(difficult to paint when the temperature is below 10°C!!)
spit
Klinker
Tasmania, Australia
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Posted: Friday, February 13, 2015 - 09:59 AM UTC
Looks great, the PPP turret certainly is quite striking, can't wait to see how you paint this E-50.
Jamesite
United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 - 04:45 PM UTC
Great work mate!
Certainly looks to be coming together very cleanly as always!
The suspension really does look 'minimalistic' when you think of the size of the tank. Did you put any thought into using the PPP wheels to add an additional wheel per station?
May be a bit of work but would perhaps fit in with the paper panzer artistic licence theme?!
Look forward to receiving the figures, will let you know when they arrive.
James
Certainly looks to be coming together very cleanly as always!
The suspension really does look 'minimalistic' when you think of the size of the tank. Did you put any thought into using the PPP wheels to add an additional wheel per station?
May be a bit of work but would perhaps fit in with the paper panzer artistic licence theme?!
Look forward to receiving the figures, will let you know when they arrive.
James
John_O
Oost-Vlaanderen, Belgium
Joined: November 23, 2007
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Posted: Saturday, March 21, 2015 - 04:59 PM UTC
Hey Pawel,
Sweet work friend! I hope you can move on to painting soon!
Cheers,
John
Sweet work friend! I hope you can move on to painting soon!
Cheers,
John
spitfire303
Vendee, France
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Posted: Sunday, March 22, 2015 - 01:37 AM UTC
Hi,
Believe it or not but the model was transformed yesterday into a U boat and dive into tap water with soap
spit
Believe it or not but the model was transformed yesterday into a U boat and dive into tap water with soap
spit
Posted: Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 06:35 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi,
Believe it or not but the model was transformed yesterday into a U boat and dive into tap water with soap
spit
Just make sure you scrub it real good behind the ears!
~Eddy
M4A1Sherman
New York, United States
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Posted: Sunday, March 29, 2015 - 06:59 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Folks,
It has been a while since I posted a build log here on Armorama. This time I've chosen to model the E-50 German tank. It will be upgraded with several items from Paper Panzer Productions ( http://www.paperpanzer.com/ ), a new company coming from Belgium driven by my friend and a long time Armorama forum member.
So what do we have here:
the base: The E-50 Tank by Trumpeter, well.. I'll need few parts from this box
A newly designed Paper Panzer Productions (PPP) turret which is accompanied by a RB model gun barrel (it is included in the PPP turret set)
An additional armour plates for this turret (it's not yet listed on the PPP site and I think I got a pre production set! It's good to know the owner LOL
Resin PPP wheels:
Resin set of exhausts, exhaust covers and ... a towing device seen for example on a unfinished King Tiger in the Kassel factory
Set of "mystery brackets" seen on some Panthers and Tigers during WWII. As the name says they are quite a mystery today as no one really know what was their intended role (if any one knows ... just share this information pls ). It's a short way from Panther to a E-50 (let's say so..) so I decide to use this item here
If I have enough of skill and patience I'll use some photo etched PPP casting marks
Finally, with ha help of a friend I should add those figures at the end of the journey "Panzer Crew 1946"
I'll post some build pics very soon. I hope you'll enjoy it. Any comments are welcomed.
spit
VERY NICE, PaweL!!! Looks like some VERY NICE STUFF from PAPER PANZER PRODUCTIONS!!!- I may even revisit my semi-abandoned DML "Panther II" project. The original DML "Panther II" kit's road-wheel spacing is COMPLETELY INCORRECT when compared to the side-view drawing of the "Panther II" in the RYTON Panther book. I got about halfway through the project when I decided that my self-imposed, on-going "EVOLUTION of U.S. ARMOR & SOFT-SKINNED VEHICLES 1916 to PRESENT-DAY" project became my MAIN 1/35 scale PRIORITY...
I looked over the PPP site, and I'M SURE that they will become quite popular with German WWII armor modellers...
I wonder if PAPER PANZER PRODUCTIONS would consider a "FULL-ON" Panther II kit, or at least a conversion which would depict a "proper Panther II "a la the reference drawing shown in the RYTON book?
(The "Panther II" is on the same page as the "Panther F" drawing. Sorry, I don't have the page number handy, as the book is in storage in my Nephew's attic, along with over 100 un-built kits...)