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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
E-50 Standardpanzer build log
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 07:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text

This is coming along swimmingly... I have a lot of the PPP items too, beautifully cast I must say. Wonderful work so far!

On the chassis -- Trumpeter's entire E50/75 series of kits -- I'm of the opinion they screwed up not understanding tank engineering in general. For starters, I feel all the wheels stations should have at least be fitted with double wheels a la the Panther II, E100, and Tiger II chassis. To me there is no way the tonnage being reported for this chassis series (the E75 would likely have topped 90-tons fully loaded) can survive long in the field on a single thin disc wheel per axle...the wheel bearings alone would have to be magically impressive to handle such stresses as Trumpeter has designed it.

I brought this up to John at PPP and we were in general agreement. Trumpeter's arrangement only looks superficially correct from direct side view as they likely only had that Panzer Tract volume as ref. The suspension also sits way too high on these kits, by how much I don't know exactly, but I've been lowering my kits like a good SoCal car guy should.



Hi, Michael- I AGREE with you 100% regarding TRUMPETER's screwing-up their renditions of the E50/E75 fragile-looking suspension and single-wheel-per-axle. In 1:1 scale, the weight of the tank' hull, turret, etc, would collapse the suspension, unless this paper panzer was truly made out of paper!

Incidentally, I've wound up "dropping" the suspensions on my 1/35 German armor by about 1/8" or so for quite a while. Glad to see that other modellers have noticed 1/35 German armor sitting just a tiny bit high. I've been doing that on some of my US/Allied machines as well...

TRUMPY isn't the only one in getting paper panzers wrong. DRAGON screwed-up the suspension and wheel-placement on their OLD "Panther II" kit. They got the shape of the "Schmallturm" wrong, too. But then, DRAGON was just a child back then... The fix for the turret is easy enough- You can either rob the turret out of a DRAGON "Panther F" kit, or buy the resin ACCURATE ARMOR conversion...

I'm mostly a US/ALLIED builder, but this is still a very interesting thread, and it's great to see how modellers can enlarge on a subject-kit of a "what-if" that never made it off the drawing board...
ninjrk
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 08:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text



Hi, Michael- I AGREE with you 100% regarding TRUMPETER's screwing-up their renditions of the E50/E75 fragile-looking suspension and single-wheel-per-axle. In 1:1 scale, the weight of the tank' hull, turret, etc, would collapse the suspension, unless this paper panzer was truly made out of paper!



To be fair, Trumpeter basically just took the design from Spielberger and then Hillary Doyle's version which is right from the German technical drawings. It wouldn't have worked in all likelihood but it is actually faithful to what the Germans had put down on paper.



majjanelson
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 - 10:01 PM UTC
Pawel,

The "German Mystery Brackets" made me think of the swinging schurtzen that were installed on late Stug IVs and possibly others.

You can take a look at Mike Roof's Analysis of Curved Swinging Schurtzen.

My guess is the three brackets on each side may have been for heavier curved swinging schurtzen that were horizontally "rectangle" and made with maybe 1/2 or 3/4" thick plate steel. The brackets don't look stout enough to hold the weight of more than a ton or so off of each. With the thicker plates they could have welded into them a simple bearing assembly for use with a shoulder bolt. But this is all a guess on my part.

But I also like the idea of rocket launchers on each side; ridiculous but sounds like something Der Fuehrer would have wanted!

I agree with the idea that the suspension is too lght or weak. Just looking at Doyle's side view drawing and I can't help but think that there is a lot of mass behind the centerline of the last road wheels. Seems like if the driver gave it too much "gas" pedal the E-50 might "pop a wheeley". The smaller turret wouldn't offset the centerline towards the front of the vehicle like a King Tiger II.

Excellent blog so far, Pawel.
spitfire303
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Vendee, France
Joined: December 22, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2015 - 02:08 AM UTC
Thank you all for your kind comment on my build and Paper Panzer Productions items.
The cat was cleaned!! The model got the Mr Surfacer 1200 treatment and it's drying just now. The first paint this weekend if all goes well.
I must agree that the suspension lacks of wheels but for this one it will have to stay the way it already is.

thank your all for your support!
spit
spitfire303
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Vendee, France
Joined: December 22, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, April 26, 2015 - 02:23 AM UTC
Hi,

After some hard work the camouflage is done. I've chosen a Dunkelgelb / two greens camouflage. Something special for a specail Paper Panzer tank.
For this job I've used the the Mig Ammo paints (Late War German set). The paints are good but I don't now why the very light dunkelgelb colour is quite shiny. I would have preferred it less but I will just make it right with a layer of matt varnish. More to come. Thx for watching.





spit
Klinker
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Tasmania, Australia
Joined: December 26, 2009
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Posted: Monday, April 27, 2015 - 01:30 PM UTC
I like it, looks the part .... but will it stay like this? from your past builds I foresee at least 3 x re-sprays.

Looking forward to more updates.
John_O
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Oost-Vlaanderen, Belgium
Joined: November 23, 2007
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Posted: Tuesday, April 28, 2015 - 12:28 AM UTC
Very cool paintjob! No need to redo it this time. Thanks for this build. I'm looking forward to seeing this one finished.

John
spitfire303
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Vendee, France
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Posted: Friday, May 08, 2015 - 12:48 AM UTC
Hi,

Klinker,

this one is definitely staying the way it is. I think the biggest repaint of mine was a panther G. I'm sure you were following this blog

Well,

here is the follow up with chipping, filters, washes and gun barrel paint done.






spit
Braille
#135
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California, United States
Joined: August 05, 2007
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Posted: Sunday, May 10, 2015 - 07:31 AM UTC
@spitfire303 – Pawel,

Great job on the paint scheme! Like how you've handled the initial weathering phase. Looking forward to seeing how the exhaust and running gear turns out.

~ Eddy
Jamesite
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Posted: Monday, May 11, 2015 - 01:59 AM UTC
Pawel,

Sorry once again for not being in touch sooner!
The paint is looking great, love the tonal contrast between colours and the crisp hard edge camouflage, certainly looking very '1946'!

Just a quick question to be a pain (as always!) why does the camouflage only cover the roof of the front part of the hull surface and not the rear or turret roof? I'm guessing it may be because you plan to paint the engine deck or roof armour differently (but then why the weathering) or is it just because these areas are complex to mask and paint?!

Either way I do like the contrast but also like to look out for what may/may not be realistic? Of course there are always those Spring 1946 new camouflage painting scheme orders...........

James
spitfire303
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Vendee, France
Joined: December 22, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, May 14, 2015 - 12:22 PM UTC
Hi James (should I say Mr Pain )

Nice to see you back my friend. I was lacking your abilities to see things. Well, the lack of paint on the engine deck is just the result of... nothing special really. I just thought that leaving it without camouflage would be ok. I was not able to find any real pictures showing the camo on the rear deck so I left it plain base color. There will be some heavy oil / pigments weathering so no problem about some contrast (I agree it looks pale for now).

About the plates on turret or the turret roof. I think most modellers do not paint the camouflage on those parts. It may be wrong as those are parts clearly seen from the air. The next one will have camouflage

thanks
spit
spitfire303
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Vendee, France
Joined: December 22, 2006
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Posted: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 01:51 AM UTC
Hi guys,

here's another update. Streaks + rainmarks have arrived





thx

spit
bizzychicken
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Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: September 06, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 07:37 PM UTC
Hi Pawel, its been a long time 1st seen this beast in MMI king of 46 well done the magazine article was awesome really got my modelling juices going again. then i found this thread as well haven't got a bench space in my new house but hey I'm going to start again on the living room table 1st thing I'm pulling out is the Trunp E 50. Big thanks for the inspiration Geraint(Bizzychicken)
bizzychicken
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 07:52 PM UTC
Looking, listening and reading bits and bobs about the E50 suspension issues, I'm thinking about extentending the axels and doubling up on wheels. Dont know if this is possible and if any tracks will still fit, will have to build up one Belleville unit with double wheels and see if it works. Anyone got any input into this idea? cheers Geraint
SDavies
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 08:37 PM UTC
Pawel has not been to the forum since October 21st, 2015 !
spitfire303
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Vendee, France
Joined: December 22, 2006
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 11:44 PM UTC
I can always come back

Thank you for the kind words Geraint. I'm glad you liked it and even more that it gave you back you modelling juices BTW the figures in the mag were painted by a friend James Mc Farlane (also an ex armorama member).

bye
spit

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