Short answer - no.

Once the acrylic matric starts to form (the acrylic binder molecules begin forming "chains," locking to each other) in the aerosolized droplets, then it's begun to form.

The flow aide helps with keeping the pigments in solution in the thinned paint, and assists especially with hand-brushing by enabling the paint to level out without beading up. It has more to do with controlling the action of the paint on a nonporous surface (like styrene or metal). It can only assist sprayed paints in leveling out IF those paints are still liquid on the target surface.

A drying retarder will help keep the aerosolized droplets from drying as quickly and the binder matrix forming. However, this is only a partial solution.

A retarder has to be used in combination with the correct reducing (thinning) ratios, air pressure, paint volume, and spraying distance.

Ambient temperature and humidity also effect the drying rate of the paint in aerosol and on the surface. The warmer and dryer the air is, the faster the paint will dry, either in the air or on the surface.

Bottom line, the paint has to arrive to the surface while still liquid and then have enough time on the surface for the droplets to flow together and level out. If the paint is drying too much in the air, this cannot happen no matter what additives (flow aide and / or drying retarder) have been used.

thank you Mike!

For tanks that would be an awesome finish! I have quite literally had to go over a model stippling with a brush because the airbrush made the finish ridiculously smooth! Typically I use Tamiya thinned about 50% - seems to work best as I have a Tamiya airbrush

Just my 2cts. Orange peel is caused by a contaminant on the surface being painted. Dry spray is due to the paint drying before adequately reaching the surface.

Havent had alot of opportunities lately to do many tests, but from what i´ve noticed so far i´ve been getting the best results at higher pressures. Now my compressor can only go up to 27ish working psi so that´s the highest i´ve been able to test at.

i´ve been doing some tests with a primer at different pressures, different distances and dilutions, 27 psi at 2" distance have definately been performing the best so far, it´s still not as good as i want it though, but i think it´s the best results so far, 20psi and lower have been alot grainier than 27 for some weird reason, i allways thought lower psis would equal better finish since lowering the pressure is what everyone is allways suggesting when you get grainy finish.

I´m trying to get a hold of a compressor so i can try pressures above 27 aswell and see. Eventually i´d like to buy a new comressor with a tank, but i cannot afford it at the moment. I can access some larger compressors through the family business (construction/carpentry firm), but i would probarbly need some kind of connectors to make it work with my airbrush, do those kind of compressors work just as well as the smaller ones?

OK, this is totally off topic, but....
I find it intriguing you are using my last name as a call sign. And it is not common at all in Sweden.
May I ask why?

As for your quesions; there are adapters available for airbrush hoses. I bought mine at Biltema if I remember correct. You know one with small thread on one side and the plug in/quick release at the other.

If you're building models of any size, I think you will find some answers in these videos ... at least give yourself a few minutes to see if it make sense to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_-v7-Wp6no

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2_YEoGunu0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6gI9ljJsdo

Paul

@Ron van Wiggen: Haha, its just something that i call my dog, his name is Wiggo, but i call him Wiggen for some reason, i use it as my username online sometimes.

thanks for the suggestion about biltema.



@Paul Budzik: Those are some excellent videos, learned alot of new things.

I only use acrylics when i paint, but i guess most principles would apply to acrylics aswell.

I´m really tempted now to get one of those airbrushes with the wider spray pattern. I will be priming and basecoating quite alot so that could be really useful.

Another few weeks of testing and troubleshooting and i cant say that i´ve made much progress... it´s abit better than the first pictures i posted but still nowhere near

I´ve varied my thinning ratios, pressures and distances alot (not randomly, i´ve been documenting and doing it step by step with small changes each time), but it seems no matter what i do i allways get the same crappy results.

At the same distances and thinning i get the same results at 10-15 psi as i get at 30-40 psi. I feel like i cant really go any thinner either or it would take like 10 coats to get coverage, the thinnest i´ve tried so far is with vallejo air(which is allready thinned down quite alot) thinned down 1:1 thinner + 15-20% retarder (based on the paint pre thinned), and i´m really close to the model.




Also i managed to borrow a compressor with a big tank so i´m getting a more consistent airflow atleast, not that that a new compressor helped the painting results any.

I´ve ordered a few pots of different paint brands that i´m gonna try (Tamiya, Ak-interactive and MIG ammo), but i highly doubt i will get any better results.


This is getting extremely frustrating...

Never had any trouble using Tamiya flat paints. Thin it down to milk-like consistency and you should be good to go.

Ok before anything, can you post the following just to eliminate some variables to narrow down the problem.

1. Post a close up picture of the miniature without paint.
2. Post a close up picture after priming
3. prime a flat piece of styrene or plastic and post a closeup picture and a picture at an angle with light.
4. paint a primed flat piece of styrene and post the picture as #3

Don't forget to post the type of paint/primer, psi, and mixture that you used.

One thing I noticed is the paint/finish quality on the base of your figures. I can't help thinking that it might be something wrong with your primer. What primer are you using?

Based on your initial pictures it seems that the texture is due to the surface underneath. Looking at the base of the first few pics that you posted (the blue figure) it also seems like the paint isnt mixed well. Do you shake and mix outside the airbrush or in the paint cup by backflushing?

@Roy van Wiggen: Hopefully i can get the paints before the weekend so i can try Tamiya out

@Jomark A: Most of the models from the original pictures were primed with vallejo primer with the airbrush so it definately adds to the rough finish of the colours since the primer goes on kinda rough aswell like all other things i airbrush.

But with all the other tests i´ve done i primed the figures/parts by hand first and then airbrushed the colours just so i could rule out the primer as the only issue. The hand painted primer looks fine and smooth.

I will work on getting those pictures of the steps you suggested, i dont have any plasticard but i do have some other large flat pieces of plastic i can use.

I shake the paint containters first and then i mix the paints/thinners etc thoroughly with a brush in some plastic shot glasses and then pour it into the airbrush cup.

Thans for the input!

I guess the best way to totally eliminate the primer as the culprit is to try a different one which is a bit smoother like mr. surfacer 1200 or stynylrez, or even a good hobby spray can primer. Also you could try painting it unprimed. I know it might sound moot since you've tried almost all combinations but at this point you simply have to go through the process of elimination and clear the primer of fault.

Any flat plastic would be fine for the samples. I still can't quite get over the bases of your miniatures particularly the 1st and 3rd. It looks like the paint spattered when it was sprayed.

Since you're getting a few bottles of tamiya acrylics then you could try it 50/50 with x-20a thinner. It is quite forgiving at 10-25 psi. If that doesn't work out then most probably it's not the paint that is the problem.

Basically you've almost eliminated a lot of factors but not completely
1. Weather conditions - you tried different locations
2. Airbrush - patriot and krome
3. *** Paint - you've tried more variants than most with a lot of combinations

You could start with these, and how you could try to eliminate them
1. Primer - Try a different brand or compare with unprimed
2. Default finish of the miniature - The picture unpainted will show this
3. Technique - you could post a video on how you paint. This will show a lot of info such as stroke, distance, coverage rate, etc.

From what little I know, I want to echo the room controls as previously mentioned. "Ambient temperature and humidity also effect the drying rate of the paint in aerosol and on the surface. The warmer and dryer the air is, the faster the paint will dry, either in the air or on the surface." I use a room dehumidifier that keeps the shop dry at 30% to 40% humidity and a water trap on the compressor (with enamels). The temperature is cool at 65 to 68 degrees F. All the other items you are working...15 psi, 3 to 6 inches away with thinned paint. Good luck!

Thanks for the suggestions amoz02t, i´m suspecting that the climate has something to do with it aswell but im not sure what to do about it, its quite dry air here but not any really extreme temperatures. I think i will get a thermometer so i can keep track of the humidity and temperature.

@Jomark: I did the test that you suggested and here it is.

THe pictures arent great but it´s the best i can get with my current camera.

click on them to zoom in

1. Bare plastic:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img907/2255/3Imr0T.png

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img538/5975/OE6bjw.png

2. Primed piece:
I primed this by brush using vallejo black primer, i didnt go for full coverage and its not the most even application and it does look abit rough on the pic but i think thats due to the uneven coverage and the lighting, it did look pretty good in person

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img540/1050/ysrvY9.png

3. Painted piece:
I used a vallejo air green colour, thinned 1:1 with vallejo thinner and 20% retarder(20% of the paint excluding the thinner) and two drops of flow aid at 20psi at a very close distance (1-2" ish)using side to side motion.

I used my Badger krome and it took like 7-8 thin coats to get decent coverage and with the close distance and small needle it was a pain on that large surface.

I painted some other smaller pieces along it aswell at 8,12,16,20 and 25 psi with the same paint mixture and the finish on those pieces were pretty much the same.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img901/5995/Cc3nqk.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img540/136/Hs7pjG.png


as you can see the finish is like a fine sandpaper with a ton of small grains of dried paint (its exaggerated some due to the lighting and the angle i took the pics at)

I cant really thin my paint any more and i doubt i would get any better results and it would be even a more pain in the ass to get coverage and avoid runs and spiders.

Unfortunately i didnt get my order of the tamiya paints before the weekend but i should get them tomorrow or tuesday so im looking forward to testing them and see if i get any better results... i cant say im optimistic tho

Hmm now this is really strange. Do you get tip dry when you spray?

I would get that sandpaper finish on a tamiya 50:50 mix if i run it at 25-30 PSI 2-3 inches away, especially when pulling back on my airbrush all the way. Typical temperature here is around 30C.

Im surprised that you could spray well on something as low as 8psi given vallejo MC is pretty thick even after you thin them. I would normally have a much thinner mixture at 8psi. I sure hope your regulator isnt busted.

Were you able to get the x20a thinner as well?

@Jomark: i do get tip dry quite fast at low pressures but i clean the tip very regularly before it starts getting a problem.

I was using Vallejo air, the prethinned one made for airbrushing, not the model colour and i mixed that one 1:1 so its really thin.

I got my order in the mail today but havent had the opportunity to try anything out yet.

I ordered two Tamiya paint pots along with the x20a thinner, i also got some Tamiya retarder and some tamiya laquer thinner as i´ve read that some ppl use that with the tamiya acrylic aswell with good results. I also got a bottle of AK-interactive and MIG Ammo paints to try out aswell.

If I were you I would go and order a few different airbrushes and test them out to see if the airbrush is the problem. If you get orange peel with a different airbrush you have the right to return it because airbrush is not performing as advertised. If you find an airbrush that solves your problems then buy it and sell your current airbrush on eBay.

Good to know your tamiya came in. You can try the x20a with a 50:50 ratio without retarder. I've never used lacquer on tamiya but since it is solvent based it could work.

Try it on around 20 psi and see how it goes. Did you get the flat or gloss acrylics?

Also, I'm not sure why you get a ton of tip dry in such a low pressure. I usually get tip dry when I spray at around 30 psi.

Is your regulator working? Make sure to purge the water trap every now and then.

@Mike Deragussi: thanks for the suggestion, i´ve tried different airbrushes allready so it doesnt seem likely that is the problem

@Jomark: So i´ve tried the Tamiya colours abit now, first with a 50:50 paint/thinner mix with no retarder at 10,15 and 20 psi and also with a 1:1.5 paint/thinner mix with 20% tamiya retarder (20% of the paint volume) at 10,15,20 and 25 psi all at quite close range and i still get the same finish as with every other paint i´ve tried

and this time i painted all but one piece on bare plastic with no primer.

The Tamiya paint was really nice to spray atleast and i´ll do some tests with even thinner mix tomorrow, i just need to strip some of my old test pieces, but it prob wont make any difference.

this is how it looks with the latter tamiya mix

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img909/6021/lUZPj7.jpg

Now that pic is taken at a extreme angle to show all defects, it doesnt look too bad at direct light but still not very nice.

I havent noticed any fault with my regulator and my water trap barely had anything in it.

Same airbrush in all of the pictures ? If so have you checked the needle tip ?

The last two of my posts that have pics in it were painted with different airbrushes (patriot and krome).

The tip on the patriot does have some tiny scratches or something on it but the other one looks fine.

I also recently purchased a Iwata Eclipse G5 (HP-G5) ( got it quite cheap from Japan through Amazon) to use for basecoating and stuff and i have the same problem with that one (actually abit worse the few times i´ve used it, i did use thicker paint in those tests however)

Were you able to try out the tamiya acrylics yet?

@Jomark: Yes, check four posts up

I think we could close out the paint as the source. Are you spraying 1-2 inches away and not dusting the paint after? I sometimes have this habit of spraying at the end of a work piece a "final" pass coat wherein I have the needle all the way back and spray at a distance around 4 inches away, which is a recipe for a disastrous sandy finish.

If I recall, you are using vallejo primers. When you spray on the primer, does it level? Does it give the same sandy finish?