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Dragon 1/35 Pz IV ausf J
Biggles2
Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Monday, March 30, 2015 - 08:08 PM UTC
Just as stocks of left-over parts from previous production runs were used up before starting installing new parts on tanks (they wouldn't just trash a load of still usable older pieces), maybe the assembly plants continued with zimmerit until their current shipment was used up, which continued past the orders to discontinue.
panzerbob01
Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
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Posted: Monday, March 30, 2015 - 10:08 PM UTC
[quote]guys, as much as I like to feel popular with a thread that has a few replies, can I politely ask us to stop discussing Zim now ;-) have decided NO ZIM on 721 .......[/quote
Hear, hear, Rob-W! I'm all with you, Pard!
Let's get on with the J and see what transpires! I'll certainly be watching!
Bob
PS: For factory-applied zimm, one can always pretty much be "sure" within the reg-period dates - Sep xx 1943 to 09 Sep 1944 - for new production and factory refurbed Pz IV, Panther, Tiger, StuG III and IV, and derived closed-top types. Made before or after? Probably you can safely skip the factory Z! Unit-application is a whole different ball-game!
For at least one place to see the repeated claim that field zimm application continued into OCT 1944, see Jentz & Doyle's 1993 text on the King Tiger... FWIW; J & D simply stated "continued" - I think of this as meaning there was some POSSIBLE case(s) of this - not a defacto "certainty" statement that this did plain happen - finito!
Bob
Hear, hear, Rob-W! I'm all with you, Pard!
Let's get on with the J and see what transpires! I'll certainly be watching!
Bob
PS: For factory-applied zimm, one can always pretty much be "sure" within the reg-period dates - Sep xx 1943 to 09 Sep 1944 - for new production and factory refurbed Pz IV, Panther, Tiger, StuG III and IV, and derived closed-top types. Made before or after? Probably you can safely skip the factory Z! Unit-application is a whole different ball-game!
For at least one place to see the repeated claim that field zimm application continued into OCT 1944, see Jentz & Doyle's 1993 text on the King Tiger... FWIW; J & D simply stated "continued" - I think of this as meaning there was some POSSIBLE case(s) of this - not a defacto "certainty" statement that this did plain happen - finito!
Bob
robw_uk
England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: June 22, 2010
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Posted: Friday, April 03, 2015 - 02:05 AM UTC
thinking of having the turret doors open on this one - what colour for the interior for late September 1944? believe the light cream had gone by then so would it just be red primer??
panzerbob01
Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
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Posted: Friday, April 03, 2015 - 11:04 AM UTC
Rob;
Inside will be the classic elfinbein. That red primmer inside tank compartments was a short trial (really done only on several StuG) - crew were decidedly against that and complained loudly and immediately when they tried oxide interiors. And seeing as panzers were vital and happier crew vital to panzer success...
About every period pic of a tank interior I've ever seen showing the turret - Panthers, Tigers, Panzers II, III, IV, etc. - showed an elfinbein interior in that turret. The inner face of those side hatches will be your basecoat dunkelgelb.
Bob
Inside will be the classic elfinbein. That red primmer inside tank compartments was a short trial (really done only on several StuG) - crew were decidedly against that and complained loudly and immediately when they tried oxide interiors. And seeing as panzers were vital and happier crew vital to panzer success...
About every period pic of a tank interior I've ever seen showing the turret - Panthers, Tigers, Panzers II, III, IV, etc. - showed an elfinbein interior in that turret. The inner face of those side hatches will be your basecoat dunkelgelb.
Bob
KevPak
United States
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Posted: Friday, April 03, 2015 - 08:06 PM UTC
Elfenbein would be used as the standard interior color until the end of the war (except for a brief period at the end of 1944 when red primer was used as the exclusive interior color). The interior surface of the turret hatches were generally painted dunkelgelb (as Bob said) but elfenbein was also used as the following examples show:
robw_uk
England - North East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, April 03, 2015 - 08:44 PM UTC
cheers guys, the interior art of the gun (so breach etc) - elfenbein as well? know most wont be seen but think with the breach the kit has and the way the doors open and then the doors in the turret skirt it adds just a bit of interest so planning to do that...
KevPak
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Posted: Friday, April 03, 2015 - 09:39 PM UTC
The breechblock was painted in elfenbein also EXCEPT for the right side (where the gun safety lever was located) - which was left as unpainted steel. Makes for an interesting contrast.
robw_uk
England - North East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, April 06, 2015 - 01:46 PM UTC
thanks Kevin - there is very little inside and am not scratching anything this time - just fancied having the doors open (perhaps in the future I can add crew sitting in the door for example)...
anyway update.....
got a fair bit done (tracks are done but not in the pictures)... going to leave the turret doors open so the turret isnt glued yet - going to paint and weather the interior slightly (dont think you can see a great deal)... upper hull is also just placed as I need to paint the lower hull interior - not that there is anything in it just that you can see it empty from the turret!
qq - in the rear photo, the dragon kit had me open 4 holes - but for the life of me I cant see anything being put in the 4 holes - any ideas????
P4070001 by Rob Worth, on Flickr
P4070003 by Rob Worth, on Flickr
P4070004 by Rob Worth, on Flickr
anyway update.....
got a fair bit done (tracks are done but not in the pictures)... going to leave the turret doors open so the turret isnt glued yet - going to paint and weather the interior slightly (dont think you can see a great deal)... upper hull is also just placed as I need to paint the lower hull interior - not that there is anything in it just that you can see it empty from the turret!
qq - in the rear photo, the dragon kit had me open 4 holes - but for the life of me I cant see anything being put in the 4 holes - any ideas????
P4070001 by Rob Worth, on Flickr
P4070003 by Rob Worth, on Flickr
P4070004 by Rob Worth, on Flickr
KevPak
United States
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Posted: Monday, April 06, 2015 - 05:50 PM UTC
Uh... no - nothing corresponds to the location of those holes (sorry).
I think you were either misled by or misunderstood the directions. It's possible they are the locating holes for the older style, horizontal muffler but they have no use in the version you are modeling.
I think you were either misled by or misunderstood the directions. It's possible they are the locating holes for the older style, horizontal muffler but they have no use in the version you are modeling.
robw_uk
England - North East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, April 06, 2015 - 06:39 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Uh... no - nothing corresponds to the location of those holes (sorry).
I think you were either misled by or misunderstood the directions. It's possible they are the locating holes for the older style, horizontal muffler but they have no use in the version you are modeling.
yep that is the consensus elsewhere - think the instructions had me open them when it shouldnt - will be filling them!!!
panzerbob01
Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
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Posted: Monday, April 06, 2015 - 06:42 PM UTC
Rob;
Sorry to have to say this, friend, but you may have been "Dragooned" by Dragon! The D has long been notorious for having various mis-directions and procedural, as well as detail, errors in their instructions. Sadly, this may be one of these. And if so, I fully commiserate with any expression of anger and frustration you might experience from doing what they say, only to find later "Oh, we didn't actually mean for someone to do THAT!"
Not chiding you, of course, but this sort of thing has "trained me" to carefully search ahead in my D instructions whenever I see mention of "drill a hole HERE" or "cut THIS off" - I never do any such drilling or cutting until I have found what is supposed to follow that action! (There of course lies another risk - as folks building D Pz.III kits have seen and remarked on - where there are some tabs on the hull-tub that must be cut off to allow uppers to fit on correctly - but no mention is made of doing this... mis-direction can be wrong directions to do something or omission of direction).
My suggestion? Look carefully through all the subsequent steps and examine the pictures carefully to 1) see if there is something D has you attach to those holes, or 2) see if those holes show up in later step pictures. IF this yields no answers, then fill them in and move on - but don't do other assembly steps that will make that fill-in more difficult than it already may be until you have satisfied yourself about what you do need to do.
Bob
Sorry to have to say this, friend, but you may have been "Dragooned" by Dragon! The D has long been notorious for having various mis-directions and procedural, as well as detail, errors in their instructions. Sadly, this may be one of these. And if so, I fully commiserate with any expression of anger and frustration you might experience from doing what they say, only to find later "Oh, we didn't actually mean for someone to do THAT!"
Not chiding you, of course, but this sort of thing has "trained me" to carefully search ahead in my D instructions whenever I see mention of "drill a hole HERE" or "cut THIS off" - I never do any such drilling or cutting until I have found what is supposed to follow that action! (There of course lies another risk - as folks building D Pz.III kits have seen and remarked on - where there are some tabs on the hull-tub that must be cut off to allow uppers to fit on correctly - but no mention is made of doing this... mis-direction can be wrong directions to do something or omission of direction).
My suggestion? Look carefully through all the subsequent steps and examine the pictures carefully to 1) see if there is something D has you attach to those holes, or 2) see if those holes show up in later step pictures. IF this yields no answers, then fill them in and move on - but don't do other assembly steps that will make that fill-in more difficult than it already may be until you have satisfied yourself about what you do need to do.
Bob
robw_uk
England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: June 22, 2010
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Joined: June 22, 2010
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Posted: Monday, April 06, 2015 - 06:53 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Rob;
Sorry to have to say this, friend, but you may have been "Dragooned" by Dragon! The D has long been notorious for having various mis-directions and procedural, as well as detail, errors in their instructions. Sadly, this may be one of these. And if so, I fully commiserate with any expression of anger and frustration you might experience from doing what they say, only to find later "Oh, we didn't actually mean for someone to do THAT!"
Not chiding you, of course, but this sort of thing has "trained me" to carefully search ahead in my D instructions whenever I see mention of "drill a hole HERE" or "cut THIS off" - I never do any such drilling or cutting until I have found what is supposed to follow that action! (There of course lies another risk - as folks building D Pz.III kits have seen and remarked on - where there are some tabs on the hull-tub that must be cut off to allow uppers to fit on correctly - but no mention is made of doing this... mis-direction can be wrong directions to do something or omission of direction).
My suggestion? Look carefully through all the subsequent steps and examine the pictures carefully to 1) see if there is something D has you attach to those holes, or 2) see if those holes show up in later step pictures. IF this yields no answers, then fill them in and move on - but don't do other assembly steps that will make that fill-in more difficult than it already may be until you have satisfied yourself about what you do need to do.
Bob
yep - i know that NOW ;-) I have looked at other stuff after I spotted that these holes didnt seem to have anything to go in them, rest "seems" OK for now.....
not stopping me enjoy the build, quite a nice kit, on the whole goes together well