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Armor/AFV: Braille Scale
1/72 and 1/76 Scale Armor and AFVs.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Braille M103 at Dragon USA
Cantstopbuyingkits
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Posted: Thursday, May 21, 2015 - 09:37 PM UTC
http://www.dragonusaonline.com/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=DRA7519

It looks like Dragon is producing a kit of the M103 in 1/72.
Should be interesting to see if they actually do any of the research for the this release.
Biggles2
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Posted: Thursday, May 21, 2015 - 10:18 PM UTC
Is that 1/72 "Black Label"?
Cantstopbuyingkits
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Posted: Friday, May 22, 2015 - 06:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Is that 1/72 "Black Label"?



Looks like it.....
Bravo1102
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Posted: Friday, May 22, 2015 - 06:59 PM UTC
I love that "glacis rendered in correct profile and shape" Be just like them to have this one perfect in proportions just to piss 1/35 scale guys off.


Even if all the detail parts in the CAD look like the old ROCO snap together.
Cantstopbuyingkits
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Posted: Saturday, May 23, 2015 - 09:48 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I love that "glacis rendered in correct profile and shape" Be just like them to have this one perfect in proportions just to piss 1/35 scale guys off.



Err, Dragon's marketing has said all the Black Label kits are completly accurate since the line was first started. It's nothing new and I don't think it will start becoming the truth for this release.
Bravo1102
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Posted: Saturday, May 23, 2015 - 10:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I love that "glacis rendered in correct profile and shape" Be just like them to have this one perfect in proportions just to piss 1/35 scale guys off.



Err, Dragon's marketing has said all the Black Label kits are completly accurate since the line was first started. It's nothing new and I don't think it will start becoming the truth for this release.



That they specifically mention the glacis in the ad when the 1/35 scale kit had that so poorly rendered is either ironic or it is intentional to indicate that they fixed it. So it's either irony or they did it right... or think they did it better. Or the ad guy is a smart ass who doesn't know what he's writing.



Also the Black label Atomic Annie 1/72 is a little gem so there is hope they get the braille right.
Biggles2
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Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2015 - 07:18 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Also the Black label Atomic Annie 1/72 is a little gem so there is hope they get the braille right.



Expensive "little gem".
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2015 - 07:33 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Expensive "little gem".



I guess price is what distinguishes the "little gems" from the pebbles . . .

KL
tankmodeler
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Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2015 - 10:19 PM UTC
Selective corrections.

The peak in the turret roof is there, but the bulge for the original gunner's seat on the underside of the turret is still woefully wrong, yet "detailed".

There is a pip on the turret roof that is nominally the electrical connection point for the searchlight that only shows up on the 103A2.

The rectangular access plate on top of the turret is still really poorly represented and the fact that the exhaust shroud comes moulded in means that there is no exhaust detail at all.

The sight bulges on the turret sides are moulded in place, so the undercut of the actual dome shape is missed entirely.

The lifting rings are nicely moulded as separate parts yet the tow rope is moulded to the top of the fenders.

Meh.

Paul
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2015 - 11:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Selective corrections.

The peak in the turret roof is there, but the bulge for the original gunner's seat on the underside of the turret is still woefully wrong, yet "detailed".

There is a pip on the turret roof that is nominally the electrical connection point for the searchlight that only shows up on the 103A2.

The rectangular access plate on top of the turret is still really poorly represented and the fact that the exhaust shroud comes moulded in means that there is no exhaust detail at all.

The sight bulges on the turret sides are moulded in place, so the undercut of the actual dome shape is missed entirely.

The lifting rings are nicely moulded as separate parts yet the tow rope is moulded to the top of the fenders.

Meh.

Paul



GOTTA LOVE IT!!! BLACK PLAGUE STRIKES AGAIN!!! I get the impression that the people over at BLACK PLAGUE are smoking some real bad $#!+, if they think that their stuff is "Completely Accurate"...

I shake my head in wonder...
Sgt_Pickle
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Posted: Sunday, May 24, 2015 - 11:39 PM UTC
What is happening to Dragon? They're replacing Magic tracks with [auto-censored]ty DS ones, removing extras from kits and still charging the same price. If this keeps up I'm not buying any new kits from Dragon. It's a good thing other manufacturers are stepping to the field.
Biggles2
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Posted: Monday, May 25, 2015 - 08:10 PM UTC
For about ten years Dragon was at the forefront of the industry, and every one of their releases were outstanding, or at least better than their competitors'. The last few years they seem to have given up trying, and each release is marginally worse than the last. I'm completely disillusioned with them. And it's not simply a matter of them not releasing the model that I want! Did they have a drastic, and disasterous, change of management?
tankmodeler
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Posted: Monday, May 25, 2015 - 09:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text

If this keeps up I'm not buying any new kits from Dragon.



This is the only way we really have of affecting what a company puts out. Don't buy the crap and either the company will change or it will get out of the model business in that sector of the market. I'm OK with either.

I'm already not buying anything Academy puts out without a really good review saying any kits are accurate and I'm going that way with Dragon. I there already with their Black Label kits.

Paul
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Monday, May 25, 2015 - 09:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text

What is happening to Dragon? They're replacing Magic tracks with [auto-censored]ty DS ones, removing extras from kits and still charging the same price.



Perhaps they listened to their customers.

They started off with individual links with (nearly) every release. People complained that they were too much work.

The included PE with their kits. People complained that it made them too complicated.

After all what difference does it make? If you want a canvas for the coolest-looking filtered, modulated, and chipped weathering scheme, any old hunk of plastic will do. Judging by magazines and websites, having an artistic finish is all that matters these days.

KL

18Bravo
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Posted: Monday, May 25, 2015 - 09:53 PM UTC
I certainly agree with that. Realism is out. Overdone weathering techniques are in (this brainwashing the sheep into thinking they MUST purchase those products.)
tankmodeler
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Posted: Monday, May 25, 2015 - 10:21 PM UTC

Quoted Text


After all what difference does it make? If you want a canvas for the coolest-looking filtered, modulated, and chipped weathering scheme, any old hunk of plastic will do. Judging by magazines and websites, having an artistic finish is all that matters these days.



+1
Sgt_Pickle
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Posted: Monday, May 25, 2015 - 10:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

What is happening to Dragon? They're replacing Magic tracks with [auto-censored]ty DS ones, removing extras from kits and still charging the same price.



Perhaps they listened to their customers.

They started off with individual links with (nearly) every release. People complained that they were too much work.

The included PE with their kits. People complained that it made them too complicated.

After all what difference does it make? If you want a canvas for the coolest-looking filtered, modulated, and chipped weathering scheme, any old hunk of plastic will do. Judging by magazines and websites, having an artistic finish is all that matters these days.

KL



Who thinks Magic tracks are complicated? You can build them in less than an hour. Are people too lazy to build models?
jwest21
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Posted: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 12:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

What is happening to Dragon? They're replacing Magic tracks with [auto-censored]ty DS ones, removing extras from kits and still charging the same price.



Perhaps they listened to their customers.

They started off with individual links with (nearly) every release. People complained that they were too much work.

The included PE with their kits. People complained that it made them too complicated.

After all what difference does it make? If you want a canvas for the coolest-looking filtered, modulated, and chipped weathering scheme, any old hunk of plastic will do. Judging by magazines and websites, having an artistic finish is all that matters these days.

KL



Who thinks Magic tracks are complicated? You can build them in less than an hour. Are people too lazy to build models?


Wait...we are supposed to build them?!?!? I thought we were just supposed to buy them and then complain!
sabredog
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Posted: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 04:13 AM UTC
Glad to see I am not the only one to think that.


Quoted Text


Wait...we are supposed to build them?!?!? I thought we were just supposed to buy them and then complain!

KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 04:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Who thinks Magic tracks are complicated? You can build them in less than an hour. Are people too lazy to build models?



Go back 10 or 20 years and you'll find plenty of people who didn't like them (or PE for that matter).

You don't have to go back very far to find magazine articles where the author didn't build the model, he just painted it. I get the sense not that they are lazy, but that building an accurate, detailed, model is unappealing, irrelevant to their "art", and in some cases, beneath them.

KL
ALBOWIE
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Posted: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 05:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Who thinks Magic tracks are complicated? You can build them in less than an hour. Are people too lazy to build models?



Go back 10 or 20 years and you'll find plenty of people who didn't like them (or PE for that matter).

You don't have to go back very far to find magazine articles where the author didn't build the model, he just painted it. I get the sense not that they are lazy, but that building an accurate, detailed, model is unappealing, irrelevant to their "art", and in some cases, beneath them.

KL



Magic tracks are a far different proposition to their earlier individual tracks. Some were excellent and some were torturous (T 48 with EEC where the holes weren't quite right so the tracked curved as the gap decreased on one side) to assemble. Damned if they do damned if they don't.

I won't go into realism vs art other than to say - I take the view build it as you wish - YOU Bought it it is your kit to build as you want. Just don't tell the rest of us this is the ONLY way to do it.

Al
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 06:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Magic tracks are a far different proposition to their earlier individual tracks. Some were excellent and some were torturous (T 48 with EEC where the holes weren't quite right so the tracked curved as the gap decreased on one side) to assemble.



Did DML ever make Magic Track set of a double pin track?

KL
Biggles2
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Posted: Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 07:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text



Perhaps they listened to their customers.

They started off with individual links with (nearly) every release. People complained that they were too much work.

The included PE with their kits. People complained that it made them too complicated.

KL




They made some of the most detailed kits on the market. People complained that they were too accurate.
Cantstopbuyingkits
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Posted: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 - 01:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text



Go back 10 or 20 years and you'll find plenty of people who didn't like them (or PE for that matter).



Er, so? It's not 10 or 20 years ago anymore. The times and attitudes have changed.
Bravo1102
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Posted: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 - 02:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Did they have a drastic, and disastrous, change of management?




I think you hit on something there. There are only so many engineers so maybe Dragon lost some of theirs to competitors. Have other Chinese companies have seen huge increases in quality while Dragon's has gone down? There's also been an explosion of new companies. They got to be losing valuable personnel.



I don't buy anything without reading the reviews and looking at scans of the sprues so I can decide just what is good enough to make the investment. Kits aren't just purchases anymore they've gotten to the point of being investments. Shop for the best price and know what I'm getting before I crack the box. I'm a full blown informed consumer rather than a kid in my local hobby shop.


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