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Iraqi Enigma
Imrenagy
Joined: June 01, 2015
KitMaker: 19 posts
Armorama: 19 posts
Posted: Friday, June 05, 2015 - 10:51 AM UTC
Does anyone know hos many enigmas that were produced?
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
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Posted: Friday, June 05, 2015 - 08:09 PM UTC
I think ...2? I saw one near the Saudi boarder and I heard there was another one.
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Friday, June 05, 2015 - 08:32 PM UTC
I guess the production number is unknown but "some" were built 
There are at least 2 preserved Enigma tanks in the US, 1 on display at the Bovington Museum (UK) and 1 in France...
(check out Olivier's article for the links)
You can add them to the few period pics that show destroyed Enigmas
H.P.
There are at least 2 preserved Enigma tanks in the US, 1 on display at the Bovington Museum (UK) and 1 in France...
(check out Olivier's article for the links)
You can add them to the few period pics that show destroyed Enigmas
H.P.
Imrenagy
Joined: June 01, 2015
KitMaker: 19 posts
Armorama: 19 posts
Posted: Friday, June 05, 2015 - 10:08 PM UTC
Ok, seems like this tank really is an enigma. Had my eyes on the tamiya offering for some time so I wanted to know how much artistic license you could permit yourself when it comes to painting the tank.
If there were like 200 tanks you could get away with pretty much any paint job but if there is like 5-10 then the options are more limited
If there were like 200 tanks you could get away with pretty much any paint job but if there is like 5-10 then the options are more limited
Me109G
Joined: December 12, 2007
KitMaker: 170 posts
Armorama: 138 posts
Posted: Friday, June 05, 2015 - 10:28 PM UTC
Not sure how many were produced, but like you said, artistic license! Paint it how you like. I've been toying with the idea of painting one up in green for a Soviet or other Warsaw Pact vehicle just for fun! Regardless, it's a Tamiya kit so it will be a joy to build no matter what paint scheme you choose! 
grunt136mike
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,896 posts
Armorama: 1,858 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 06, 2015 - 08:22 AM UTC
Hi Guys;
Quite some time ago I did research on the Conversions, and I Figured around A Company sized unit was converted. And not all of the conversions were the same, some had different Fenders and some had different side skirts, and not all were made on just the T-55, the Chinese vehicle was also converted into A like simularity. The First Vehicles were used in Kafji and were Destroyed by the USMC as they tried to enter the city. Before the Tamiya kit was Made there were quite of conversions offered by the AM companies, and I purchased All of them, and some were Very Crude as they were all in Resin.
CHEERS; MIKE.
Quite some time ago I did research on the Conversions, and I Figured around A Company sized unit was converted. And not all of the conversions were the same, some had different Fenders and some had different side skirts, and not all were made on just the T-55, the Chinese vehicle was also converted into A like simularity. The First Vehicles were used in Kafji and were Destroyed by the USMC as they tried to enter the city. Before the Tamiya kit was Made there were quite of conversions offered by the AM companies, and I purchased All of them, and some were Very Crude as they were all in Resin.
CHEERS; MIKE.
Imrenagy
Joined: June 01, 2015
KitMaker: 19 posts
Armorama: 19 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 06, 2015 - 10:45 AM UTC
Ok more then 5 then. That is good news. Did you bild any of the resin conversions?
grunt136mike
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,896 posts
Armorama: 1,858 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 06, 2015 - 11:21 AM UTC
Hi James;
Yes I did build some of them, but not all of them. Some were just not Worth the Time, now I am talking about A Period that was way before the Excellent Tamiya kit.
The only Vehicles that were available were the old Trumpeter kits, and they were almost as Bad as the conversions. In reality the Tamiya kit is way too Clean when built, as the real vehicles were very Poor in there construction as were the Materials used. The kits that I built were all either Sold or Donated to Museums, altho I do have the Tamiya kit in my Collection.
CHEERS; MIKE.
Yes I did build some of them, but not all of them. Some were just not Worth the Time, now I am talking about A Period that was way before the Excellent Tamiya kit.
The only Vehicles that were available were the old Trumpeter kits, and they were almost as Bad as the conversions. In reality the Tamiya kit is way too Clean when built, as the real vehicles were very Poor in there construction as were the Materials used. The kits that I built were all either Sold or Donated to Museums, altho I do have the Tamiya kit in my Collection.
CHEERS; MIKE.
bison126
Joined: June 10, 2004
KitMaker: 5,329 posts
Armorama: 5,204 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 06, 2015 - 01:06 PM UTC
I can't give a number. This tank upgrade set was supposedly only for command tanks. So my guess is that the number was limited.
Concerning the "donor" tanks for this conversion, you can see Russian or Czech-Polish made T-55s.
The one in Mourmelon is a Russian tank while those in Bovington and the US are not.
The frontal armor blocks could be fitted differently from a tank ot another. Other little details led me to think that this upgrade was made in the field and not in a factory.
Good luck for your search and please share the answer if you find it
Concerning the "donor" tanks for this conversion, you can see Russian or Czech-Polish made T-55s.
The one in Mourmelon is a Russian tank while those in Bovington and the US are not.
The frontal armor blocks could be fitted differently from a tank ot another. Other little details led me to think that this upgrade was made in the field and not in a factory.
Good luck for your search and please share the answer if you find it
Imrenagy
Joined: June 01, 2015
KitMaker: 19 posts
Armorama: 19 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 06, 2015 - 11:31 PM UTC
If I ever find an answer I will share it
grunt136mike
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,896 posts
Armorama: 1,858 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 08:20 AM UTC
Hi;
While trying to find the Folder that I had on the Conversions, which at the moment I cant locate, I recall that between twelve (12) to Fifteen (15) were built and they were built at Two Different Batt; Work Shops. In the folder there were about Twenty Different pictures of the Enigmas, that I had collected over A period of A couple of years, and the description that were posted with them only gave very little Info on each picture. As I recall there were quite A few Differences between each vehicle. Also when I was trying to Build them the only Book at the time to have photos of them was the Concord Book Iraqi Wrecks and Fortifacations, the Best set of photos that I could find that were taken from close up were A Pair of Enigmas that were Destroyed some where on A Road and were together front to nose. If I can find that old folder I will add other info at that time.
CHEERS; MIKE.
While trying to find the Folder that I had on the Conversions, which at the moment I cant locate, I recall that between twelve (12) to Fifteen (15) were built and they were built at Two Different Batt; Work Shops. In the folder there were about Twenty Different pictures of the Enigmas, that I had collected over A period of A couple of years, and the description that were posted with them only gave very little Info on each picture. As I recall there were quite A few Differences between each vehicle. Also when I was trying to Build them the only Book at the time to have photos of them was the Concord Book Iraqi Wrecks and Fortifacations, the Best set of photos that I could find that were taken from close up were A Pair of Enigmas that were Destroyed some where on A Road and were together front to nose. If I can find that old folder I will add other info at that time.
CHEERS; MIKE.
gastec
Joined: February 03, 2014
KitMaker: 1,042 posts
Armorama: 871 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 10:56 AM UTC
I'm following this with interest as I have one of these in my stash and would love to start it when I have enough reference photos etc.
Gary
Gary
barra733
Joined: January 03, 2015
KitMaker: 282 posts
Armorama: 255 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 11:50 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi;
While trying to find the Folder that I had on the Conversions, which at the moment I cant locate, I recall that between twelve (12) to Fifteen (15) were built and they were built at Two Different Batt; Work Shops. In the folder there were about Twenty Different pictures of the Enigmas, that I had collected over A period of A couple of years, and the description that were posted with them only gave very little Info on each picture. As I recall there were quite A few Differences between each vehicle. Also when I was trying to Build them the only Book at the time to have photos of them was the Concord Book Iraqi Wrecks and Fortifacations, the Best set of photos that I could find that were taken from close up were A Pair of Enigmas that were Destroyed some where on A Road and were together front to nose. If I can find that old folder I will add other info at that time.
CHEERS; MIKE.
Mike - My Dad was in the first Gulf War. I remember a picture he had of him sat on the turret of a 'unknown' tank parked nose to nose with another of the same type. Later on, when I started modelling I realised it was probably two enigmas. I think it was on the road to Basrah, after an A10 attack. Probably the same ones you're talking about.
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 12:36 PM UTC
Some pics that may be new to some of you :
This variant is based on the Type 69 :
In color
H.P.
:This variant is based on the Type 69 :
In color
H.P.
junglejim
Joined: February 18, 2003
KitMaker: 1,728 posts
Armorama: 1,629 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 01:10 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The only Vehicles that were available were the old Trumpeter kits, and they were almost as Bad as the conversions.
I think most of the earlier conversions were for the Esci T55 kit (MB, Verlinden etc), Trumpeter was relatively unheard of back then.
Jim
Imrenagy
Joined: June 01, 2015
KitMaker: 19 posts
Armorama: 19 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 03:11 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Some pics that may be new to some of you
This variant is based on the Type 69 :
In color
[img]http://gallery.military.ir/albums/userpics/IRQ_T-72Z.jpg[/
Nice!!! Seems like there is enigmas with cammo then, or is the one with green spray Just one with grafitti?
H.P.
Removed by original poster on 05/13/19 - 23:46:32 (GMT).
Imrenagy
Joined: June 01, 2015
KitMaker: 19 posts
Armorama: 19 posts
Posted: Monday, June 08, 2015 - 03:09 PM UTC
Nice and simple idea but im not sure the Enigma was used as an command tank in every tank company
jon_a_its
Joined: April 29, 2004
KitMaker: 1,336 posts
Armorama: 1,137 posts
Posted: Monday, June 08, 2015 - 04:36 PM UTC
Thought the ideas was to try very hard Not to look like a command tank target
Imrenagy
Joined: June 01, 2015
KitMaker: 19 posts
Armorama: 19 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 03:15 PM UTC
Right, that is good thinking.
bison126
Joined: June 10, 2004
KitMaker: 5,329 posts
Armorama: 5,204 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 10:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thought the ideas was to try very hard Not to look like a command tank target
You're right but on the other hand a well trained commander deserves some extra protection
The Enigma add-on armor reportedly defeated hits by Milan missiles.
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 12:44 AM UTC
I would be wary of the one with the green squiggle line. It is a "museum piece" and not a photo of one in the field. That may be someones custom decoration.
grunt136mike
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,896 posts
Armorama: 1,858 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 03:26 AM UTC
Hi Guys;
Bach when I made my Enigmas, I had Compiled quite A Bit of information. Before the First Gulf War, Iraq tried too sell Armor Conversions on the Open Market and one of the conversions was the Enigma, and in the one picture of the vehicle with Green Squiggles was A Enigma they were trying to Market, some of the other conversions were made for the Chinese types and they also offered Up-Guned versions with the 125mm. Also they tried to sell Knock-Down kits that were made in Russia and China. But they did not have much Luck and the Attempt was Droped !
CHEERS; MIKE.
Bach when I made my Enigmas, I had Compiled quite A Bit of information. Before the First Gulf War, Iraq tried too sell Armor Conversions on the Open Market and one of the conversions was the Enigma, and in the one picture of the vehicle with Green Squiggles was A Enigma they were trying to Market, some of the other conversions were made for the Chinese types and they also offered Up-Guned versions with the 125mm. Also they tried to sell Knock-Down kits that were made in Russia and China. But they did not have much Luck and the Attempt was Droped !
CHEERS; MIKE.
Imrenagy
Joined: June 01, 2015
KitMaker: 19 posts
Armorama: 19 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 03:06 PM UTC
Did the enigmas see any action during the iraq-iran war?
Karl187
#284
Joined: October 04, 2006
KitMaker: 3,094 posts
Armorama: 2,942 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 03:24 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Did the enigmas see any action during the iraq-iran war?
As far as I know they were developed after the end of that war.
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