_GOTOBOTTOM
Яusso-Soviэt Forum
Russian or Soviet vehicles/armor modeling forum.
Trumpeter T-72M4CZ second problem............
andymacrae
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: September 01, 2005
KitMaker: 409 posts
Armorama: 402 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 01:46 AM UTC
The new resilient stops for the torsion bars are missing you can see them above each wheel here:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/Akce_Cihelna_2014_H08._T-72_M4_CZ.jpg

FFS! Ok so you cant see them when the skirts are on but there are plenty of pics of this tank with them off. Going to have to try and find a pic of chassis without wheels.
Removed by original poster on 05/13/19 - 23:22:23 (GMT).
Hellrabbit
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: June 28, 2015
KitMaker: 139 posts
Armorama: 139 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 05:13 AM UTC
Not quite a problem, AM set will solve it. Injection Tech always has its limits.
andymacrae
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: September 01, 2005
KitMaker: 409 posts
Armorama: 402 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 12:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Not quite a problem, AM set will solve it. Injection Tech always has its limits.



Do you know of an am set coming out?

Thanks,
Andy
arpikaszabo
Visit this Community
Praha, Czech Republic
Joined: February 13, 2006
KitMaker: 674 posts
Armorama: 637 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 04:09 PM UTC
One more potential problem: The turret is covered by rubber, so only a hint of the casting pattern should be visible.

And the turret basket on the right side is represented in PE in the kit, it is way too thin in my eyes.

The main gun is missing a few rivets :-), I have not checked the size however.

I am building the turret right now, I do not see any other problems so far.
andymacrae
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: September 01, 2005
KitMaker: 409 posts
Armorama: 402 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 05:48 PM UTC

Quoted Text

One more potential problem: The turret is covered by rubber, so only a hint of the casting pattern should be visible.

And the turret basket on the right side is represented in PE in the kit, it is way too thin in my eyes.

The main gun is missing a few rivets :-), I have not checked the size however.

I am building the turret right now, I do not see any other problems so far.



Yup I noticed the rubber covering, it's on glacis armour and round drivers hatch too. And was going to replace the basket too, as you say it's far too thin. I'm also not sure that the mantlet cover is quite the correct shape either?

And of course the fuel tank piping is missing, as it is in all T-72 kits, also the wiring for the headlights.

Regards,
Andy
andymacrae
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: September 01, 2005
KitMaker: 409 posts
Armorama: 402 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 05, 2015 - 05:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

One more potential problem: The turret is covered by rubber, so only a hint of the casting pattern should be visible.

And the turret basket on the right side is represented in PE in the kit, it is way too thin in my eyes.

The main gun is missing a few rivets :-), I have not checked the size however.

I am building the turret right now, I do not see any other problems so far.



Yup I noticed the rubber covering, it's on glacis armour and round drivers hatch and on fuel tanks and stowage hatches too. And was going to replace the basket too, as you say it's far too thin. I'm also not sure that the mantlet cover is quite the correct shape either?

And of course the fuel tank piping is missing, as it is in all T-72 kits, also the wiring for the headlights.

Regards,
Andy

okievit
Visit this Community
Cadiz, Spain / España
Joined: June 18, 2003
KitMaker: 225 posts
Armorama: 206 posts
Posted: Friday, July 10, 2015 - 10:22 PM UTC
Thanks for pointing these out, Andy. Two more possibles: The ERA bricks above the driver can only be mounted in the "up" position, and I don't think Czech T-72 had Nadboy/anti-neutron layer anywhere?

Olaf
arpikaszabo
Visit this Community
Praha, Czech Republic
Joined: February 13, 2006
KitMaker: 674 posts
Armorama: 637 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 01:36 PM UTC
One more problem: I think the flat rooftop ERA bricks are rather poorly reproduced. Does anyone have a good high-res picture of the top of the turret? The best one I could find is this one: http:// http://www.gamepark.cz/screenshot.asp?id=78889
You can see that the individual blocks are not fused with one another. Being the top of the turret, this shortcut from Trumpeter is really visible and needs to be corrected.

Also, the ring of the commander's cupola is missing details.

The gunners sight is missing parts of the door-opening mechanism.
hugohuertas
Visit this Community
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 08:40 PM UTC
You might try this geat walkaround in FB, pictures copyright of J.W. de Boer :
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207291514872376&set=a.10207291254305862.1073741853.1420055828&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207291516112407&set=a.10207291254305862.1073741853.1420055828&type=1&theater
arpikaszabo
Visit this Community
Praha, Czech Republic
Joined: February 13, 2006
KitMaker: 674 posts
Armorama: 637 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 09:01 PM UTC
Excellent walkaround, THX a lot.
hugohuertas
Visit this Community
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 11, 2015 - 09:19 PM UTC
You are welcome.
Please keep sharing your thaughts about this kit. Mine is already ordered but not delivered yet from HK...
andymacrae
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: September 01, 2005
KitMaker: 409 posts
Armorama: 402 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 02:19 AM UTC

Quoted Text

One more problem: I think the flat rooftop ERA bricks are rather poorly reproduced. Does anyone have a good high-res picture of the top of the turret? The best one I could find is this one: http:// http://www.gamepark.cz/screenshot.asp?id=78889
You can see that the individual blocks are not fused with one another. Being the top of the turret, this shortcut from Trumpeter is really visible and needs to be corrected.

Also, the ring of the commander's cupola is missing details.

The gunners sight is missing parts of the door-opening mechanism.



Agree with the blocks. I had to separate all the blocks on the Trumpeter T-80BV too as they where moulded "fused" together as well.

The more I look at this kit the more annoying errors there are.

Regards,
Andy
andymacrae
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: September 01, 2005
KitMaker: 409 posts
Armorama: 402 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 02:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for pointing these out, Andy. Two more possibles: The ERA bricks above the driver can only be mounted in the "up" position, and I don't think Czech T-72 had Nadboy/anti-neutron layer anywhere?

Olaf



You can see it on the hull side bulges under the turret if you look at J.W. de Boer's Facebook walkaround.

HTH
Andy
hugohuertas
Visit this Community
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 02:53 AM UTC
I was waiting to see if some of the "just be happy because this kit was released" guys jump in into this post, but it seems that they only care about the critics to one particular manufacturer...

Cano you elaborate about thos "annoying errors" you mentioned?
I'm waiting for mine to be delivered from HK, and any advice will be helpful.
Jacques
Visit this Community
Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 18, 2015 - 07:49 AM UTC
Just to be clear, the kit is fine. All the tips being pointed out will allow you to decide if you want to fix them or not. It is not like this is the Panzershop, or a SKIF, kit. But there are always things to improve.
andymacrae
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: September 01, 2005
KitMaker: 409 posts
Armorama: 402 posts
Posted: Monday, July 20, 2015 - 01:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I was waiting to see if some of the "just be happy because this kit was released" guys jump in into this post, but it seems that they only care about the critics to one particular manufacturer...

Cano you elaborate about thos "annoying errors" you mentioned?
I'm waiting for mine to be delivered from HK, and any advice will be helpful.



Hi,

So far suspension missing new resilient stops for the torsion bars, an important part of the M4 update. Area between hull and rear of engine deck incorrect (relatively easy fix}. If you look through JW de Boers Facebook walkaround you'll notice lots of other small detail mistakes which can be easily fixed, like separating the turret top armour blocks. The suspension is a real pain cos I haven't yet found clear pics of the new stops.
Other details have been picked up on the posts on this forum.

HTH
Andy
grunt136mike
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,896 posts
Armorama: 1,858 posts
Posted: Monday, July 20, 2015 - 02:25 AM UTC
Hi Everybody;

I have not seen my kit yet, so I cant say that it is all that Bad. But IMHO I really dont see what all the Fuss is about, now I know that the Tecno, guys will Never Be Happy with Anything ! So we have to live with the Little things.
And there is never going to be A 100% Accurate kit, were getting Better with Technology as Newer kit are made and we should be Happy. I will give you A Example; Look at the Tamiya T-72, it is A Excellent kit !! But Look at its Short Falls and Most of us know what they are, and you can Pick out its Missing Details just by Looking at its own Box Top.
SO in the Short Run I am Going to be real Happy that I have Another Armor kit in my Collection.

HAPPY MODELING; MIKE.
andymacrae
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: September 01, 2005
KitMaker: 409 posts
Armorama: 402 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 - 02:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Everybody;

I have not seen my kit yet, so I cant say that it is all that Bad. But IMHO I really dont see what all the Fuss is about, now I know that the Tecno, guys will Never Be Happy with Anything ! So we have to live with the Little things.
And there is never going to be A 100% Accurate kit, were getting Better with Technology as Newer kit are made and we should be Happy. I will give you A Example; Look at the Tamiya T-72, it is A Excellent kit !! But Look at its Short Falls and Most of us know what they are, and you can Pick out its Missing Details just by Looking at its own Box Top.
SO in the Short Run I am Going to be real Happy that I have Another Armor kit in my Collection.

HAPPY MODELING; MIKE.



To be honest I can handle the small detail mistakes etc as every kit has these but missing the new stops for the torsion bars on the hull sides are a major omission (on par with the awful turret on the Tamiya T-72).

Regards,
Andy
grunt136mike
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: November 24, 2012
KitMaker: 1,896 posts
Armorama: 1,858 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 - 07:37 AM UTC
Hi Guys;

Well now, lets see, o.k. so they left out the stops. Now I am far from A Top Modeler ,but I think I can add these missing details using other T-72s as A Guide. And as Far as the Tamiya kit is Concerend and giving how old it is, it was Accurate for what it was. A early Mk; that was sent to the NVA and had A early turret that was rare. And Everybody Pissed and Moaned that it wasent Accurate. Now how many Griped about the Meng T-90 or the New leopard 1A4, and you can Bet one of the AM guys will offer A Correct Hull; ie) Mini-Arm, SP Design. I Dont Care Who the kit maker is or What Subject they Produce, there will Always Be those who will Find Something they Dont Like.

HAPPY MODELING; MIKE.
andymacrae
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: September 01, 2005
KitMaker: 409 posts
Armorama: 402 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2015 - 01:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Guys;

Well now, lets see, o.k. so they left out the stops. Now I am far from A Top Modeler ,but I think I can add these missing details using other T-72s as A Guide. And as Far as the Tamiya kit is Concerend and giving how old it is, it was Accurate for what it was. A early Mk; that was sent to the NVA and had A early turret that was rare. And Everybody Pissed and Moaned that it wasent Accurate. Now how many Griped about the Meng T-90 or the New leopard 1A4, and you can Bet one of the AM guys will offer A Correct Hull; ie) Mini-Arm, SP Design. I Dont Care Who the kit maker is or What Subject they Produce, there will Always Be those who will Find Something they Dont Like.

HAPPY MODELING; MIKE.



Have to disagree with that. The Tamiya kit is based on a Polish built NVA Ubergangsversion, an M1 hull with an M turret and six spoke wheels. So yes a rare vehicle. The turret is the wrong shape regardless (and the engine grilles not quite positioned correctly and the front stowage bin openening the wrong way) I'm currently working on bringing the Tamiya kit up to scratch as an NVA UV version using an aftermarket turret and photoetch sets. I've just finished a build of a Trumpeter T-80BV, which is waiting painting, and it needed a lot of detailing and small changes, especially as I'm doing a Sertolovo Tank Training Battalion vehicle, but also because the kit was lacking in areas. Unfortunately I spotted too late that there is a problem with the front glacis size so I'll just have to live with it.

As for the resilient stops on the M4CZ you cant copy from another T-72 as only this vehicle (and the VT-72M4) have them, they are unique to this mark. If I can find a decent pic of them I'll happily build them, finding the refs is the problem.

Regards,
Andy
Removed by original poster on 05/13/19 - 23:22:43 (GMT).
Jacques
Visit this Community
Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 - 08:38 AM UTC
Ok, as always there are really 2 stories involved.

One involves the fact that there is a new kit that is actually pretty nice and accurate enough for the average builder. Plus it is a plastic kit of a rare vehicle, rather than a painful resin conversion.

The second is that the kit has some problems that are not only obvious, when you know what to look for, but are unique to what it is, making it hard to just replicate/replace them. This is annoying when it should be obvious to a manufacturer to just get these details done right.

Perspective is this. I personally love the nuts-and-bolts details about missed weld beads and incorrect torsion bars stops. Really. But I am a non-average armor modeler, let alone a non-average human being.

However...I know seriously awesome modellers who could care less about the problems of the Tamiya T-72 kit...they just build it, paint it up, and enjoy the awesome. They do not care about the same things I do, detail wise. They want a GOOD kit, but they can live without a PERFECT kit. So the Tamiya T-72, with all its problems, gets built OOB and looks good. And about 20 people worldwide know its problems and scream silently into the uncaring night sky. Or so I have been told...*ahem*.
Removed by original poster on 05/13/19 - 23:23:03 (GMT).
mwells63
Visit this Community
Gauteng, South Africa
Joined: July 03, 2014
KitMaker: 82 posts
Armorama: 77 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 22, 2015 - 05:19 PM UTC
Despite all the errors, Tamiya's T72 was a good kit for it's time. The only alternative were the horrendous Dragon kits which were not worth the effort. Although trumpeters Russian tank kits may not be perfect, they certainly do look the part. As long as there are no obvious glaring inaccuracies, any smaller less noticeable errors are not really an issue. Personally I'm pretty thankful that for any decent kit on the subject
 _GOTOTOP