I'm pressing forward with an M4A3 75mm (W) build of a tank in the 716th Tank Bn in the Philippines in 1945. I already have the VVSS suspension with the upturned return roller brackets and proper road wheels from Dragon, but I'm having difficulty locating a Dragon M4A3 75mm (W) kit, so I've decided to go with either a Tamiya "breakthrough" M4A3 75mm OR an Italeri/Revell Calliope M4A3, since these two kits seem readily available.
I'm aware of the open sponsons on the Tamiya kit, those are not an issue for me to correct. I do prefer all the hatches to be open and rubber chevron tracks. Since I already have the suspension system accounted for, I'm trying to find out what your opinions are about the better upper hull and turret details. VR, Russ
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Sherman M4A3 75mm (W) Which kit is best?
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 02:01 AM UTC
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 05:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm pressing forward with an M4A3 75mm (W) build of a tank in the 716th Tank Bn in the Philippines in 1945. I already have the VVSS suspension with the upturned return roller brackets and proper road wheels from Dragon, but I'm having difficulty locating a Dragon M4A3 75mm (W) kit, so I've decided to go with either a Tamiya "breakthrough" M4A3 75mm OR an Italeri/Revell Calliope M4A3, since these two kits seem readily available.
I'm aware of the open sponsons on the Tamiya kit, those are not an issue for me to correct. I do prefer all the hatches to be open and rubber chevron tracks. Since I already have the suspension system accounted for, I'm trying to find out what your opinions are about the better upper hull and turret details. VR, Russ
It would be worth your while tracking down the Dragon kit, as using the 1970's vintage kits will require a lot of modifications.
Drawbacks of the older Sherman kit hulls include hatches that all come without periscopes. Pose the hatches shut, and the tank is blind, pose them open and the periscope holders are empty, so you'd need some resin replacements.
The weld joints in the hull top are depicted as recessed rather than raised, so you'll need to add some sprue or rod to the joints, and either soften them with cement, and texture with a knife blade, or use a hot knife or pyrogravure tool to texture the weld beads. Italeri's engine deck grills are molded open, which looks nice, but to do that, they reduced the number of rods in the grill, so it isn't fully accurate.
The turrets will need the thickened armor casting on the right front area added with epoxy putty (this replaced the welded appliqué panel in late 1943). Italeri's loader's hatch is the correct dimension (Tamiya's is too wide). The flange on the gun rotor mount on the right side needs to be removed, and the gun mount should be made widened with a plastic shim to fill the turret opening.
Steve Zaloga devoted a whole Osprey book to modeling the early M4 Sherman using these older kits, so you might consider picking it up if you want to go this route.
pbudzik
Joined: January 12, 2014
KitMaker: 55 posts
Armorama: 47 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 09:41 AM UTC
Currently the best way to get a proper M4A3 75W is using the Dragon turret with the Tasca/Asuka M4A3. Like this ...
The Dragon final drive housing and resulting hull angles sort of muck up the appearance of the tank. The Tasca is spot on in all respects.
The Dragon final drive housing and resulting hull angles sort of muck up the appearance of the tank. The Tasca is spot on in all respects.
easyco69
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 2,275 posts
Armorama: 2,233 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 03:25 PM UTC
Dragon 6698 1:35 Dragon M4A3 75(W)
ebay search
http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS5&_nkw=Dragon+6698+1%3A35+Dragon+M4A3+75%28W%29&_sacat=0
ebay search
http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS5&_nkw=Dragon+6698+1%3A35+Dragon+M4A3+75%28W%29&_sacat=0
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 04:16 PM UTC
I have a Dragon #6698 I would be willing to let go
pstansell
Joined: November 10, 2005
KitMaker: 167 posts
Armorama: 163 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 08:17 PM UTC
Not to muck up the works, but The New TMD has a fabulous 75mm turret to top your Tasca/Asuka kit:http://www.newtmd.com/Sherman-High-Bustle-Turret-Shell-D78461-GSCC
Pat
Pat
pbudzik
Joined: January 12, 2014
KitMaker: 55 posts
Armorama: 47 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 11, 2015 - 08:48 PM UTC
Thanks Pat 
but, at this point, between the kits and tracks, I'm at the limit of my budget for this project.
Paul
but, at this point, between the kits and tracks, I'm at the limit of my budget for this project.Paul
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2015 - 04:18 AM UTC
Folks,
Thanks for all the input on my M4A3 conundrum. I especially want to thank Warren and Paul Budzik. If you have not viewed Paul's website, I highly recommend it-- I've been a follower for a couple of years now-- and his "how to's" are very enlightening-- I recently recommended his soldering tutorial to another Kitmaker forum member-- Paul, your work is truly inspiring.
Now--I've solved my M4A3 75mm (W) problem. I already have the Dragon M4A2 PTO kit, a Dragon M4A1 kit and a Tasca M4A3 Jumbo kit-- and I really didn't want to cut up these kits(or buy any more Dragon kits!). However, yesterday I was reading a review on Armorama about the new Academy/MRC M4A3 Calliope kit which was released in July 2015. Today I went to my LHS and bought one. I was pleasantly surprised at what was in the box-- what appears to be a new mold M4A3 75mm (W). It does not seem to have any sprues in common with other manufacturers (except for the rocket tubes (which are from Italeri, as the side of the box states). This kit is laid out similar to a Dragon kit (not quite as crisp in the molding--but totally acceptable). It has a couple of detail sprues from other Academy offerings like the M10. But it has none of the "warts" of the Tamiya or Italeri M4A3 kits. The hull weld beads are well done, and it comes with either early or late suspensions and wheels--which have casting marks). There is a multi-piece open-receiver-cover 50. Cal. and separate 30. Cal coax. The only two "warts" I've found so far are 4 large ejector pin marks on both sides of the lower hull, and a lack of a turret armor plate "cheek" over the gunners position-- easy enough to correct. There's a bunch of extra parts, and it has several sprues of bolt heads, rivets, and casting numbers/letters which are very nice. It has a choice of either the low profile commander's vision block copula or the split hatch copula, and separate periscope and periscope guards (Dragon style-- but in gray plastic) so the hatches can be posed open. There's a small photo-etch set for the headlight guards too. The tracks are rubber chevron glue-type (T49?). They are nicely molded and highly flexible in black, but they have duckbills so I'll probably end up replacing those, I paid $48 USD for the kit, including tax. VR Russ
Thanks for all the input on my M4A3 conundrum. I especially want to thank Warren and Paul Budzik. If you have not viewed Paul's website, I highly recommend it-- I've been a follower for a couple of years now-- and his "how to's" are very enlightening-- I recently recommended his soldering tutorial to another Kitmaker forum member-- Paul, your work is truly inspiring.
Now--I've solved my M4A3 75mm (W) problem. I already have the Dragon M4A2 PTO kit, a Dragon M4A1 kit and a Tasca M4A3 Jumbo kit-- and I really didn't want to cut up these kits(or buy any more Dragon kits!). However, yesterday I was reading a review on Armorama about the new Academy/MRC M4A3 Calliope kit which was released in July 2015. Today I went to my LHS and bought one. I was pleasantly surprised at what was in the box-- what appears to be a new mold M4A3 75mm (W). It does not seem to have any sprues in common with other manufacturers (except for the rocket tubes (which are from Italeri, as the side of the box states). This kit is laid out similar to a Dragon kit (not quite as crisp in the molding--but totally acceptable). It has a couple of detail sprues from other Academy offerings like the M10. But it has none of the "warts" of the Tamiya or Italeri M4A3 kits. The hull weld beads are well done, and it comes with either early or late suspensions and wheels--which have casting marks). There is a multi-piece open-receiver-cover 50. Cal. and separate 30. Cal coax. The only two "warts" I've found so far are 4 large ejector pin marks on both sides of the lower hull, and a lack of a turret armor plate "cheek" over the gunners position-- easy enough to correct. There's a bunch of extra parts, and it has several sprues of bolt heads, rivets, and casting numbers/letters which are very nice. It has a choice of either the low profile commander's vision block copula or the split hatch copula, and separate periscope and periscope guards (Dragon style-- but in gray plastic) so the hatches can be posed open. There's a small photo-etch set for the headlight guards too. The tracks are rubber chevron glue-type (T49?). They are nicely molded and highly flexible in black, but they have duckbills so I'll probably end up replacing those, I paid $48 USD for the kit, including tax. VR Russ
Da-Mau
Joined: March 15, 2014
KitMaker: 20 posts
Armorama: 19 posts
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2015 - 06:52 AM UTC
Hello sir,
Sounds this Academy kit is a good option. I am wondering can this Academy kit build as a M4A3? Thank you.
Cheers
Ken
Sounds this Academy kit is a good option. I am wondering can this Academy kit build as a M4A3? Thank you.
Cheers
Ken
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Monday, October 12, 2015 - 07:46 AM UTC
Ken,
Yes, it was designed as an M4A3 Sherman, and it can be built with a choice of options for late 1944 M4A3's right form the box. What it does not have is the thicker armor plate "cheek" on the gunners side of the turret, which was common to the M4A3, that should be easy to fix. It does not have the HVSS for the M4A3E8, so if you are looking for an "Easy Eight" version, you need to find the one with the dozer blade or 76mm version. I understand Academy has released parts of this kit in several forms over the years, most notably as a "Lend-Lease" Russian M4A2, and USMC M4A2, but this kit has different parts with an M4A3 rear deck and split commander's hatch. I've noted several reviewers have noted it's a good kit. Some say the Dragon M4A3 kit is better, and since I have several Dragon kits, I'll say the molding on the Academy kit is not quite as "crisp" as a dragon kit, but I think with a little work it can hold it's own, and the price is right. VR, Russ
Yes, it was designed as an M4A3 Sherman, and it can be built with a choice of options for late 1944 M4A3's right form the box. What it does not have is the thicker armor plate "cheek" on the gunners side of the turret, which was common to the M4A3, that should be easy to fix. It does not have the HVSS for the M4A3E8, so if you are looking for an "Easy Eight" version, you need to find the one with the dozer blade or 76mm version. I understand Academy has released parts of this kit in several forms over the years, most notably as a "Lend-Lease" Russian M4A2, and USMC M4A2, but this kit has different parts with an M4A3 rear deck and split commander's hatch. I've noted several reviewers have noted it's a good kit. Some say the Dragon M4A3 kit is better, and since I have several Dragon kits, I'll say the molding on the Academy kit is not quite as "crisp" as a dragon kit, but I think with a little work it can hold it's own, and the price is right. VR, Russ
testpro
#383
Joined: November 22, 2012
KitMaker: 36 posts
Armorama: 30 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 04:41 AM UTC
Hay this thread mentioned the hollow wheels on the Tamiya kit of the M4A3, which I am building now. So does one take care of the care of the hollow backed wheels?
and the cheek of the turret, this is to say the side of the torrent is not sticking out enough?
thanks
and the cheek of the turret, this is to say the side of the torrent is not sticking out enough?
thanks
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 09:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hay this thread mentioned the hollow wheels on the Tamiya kit of the M4A3, which I am building now. So does one take care of the care of the hollow backed wheels?
and the cheek of the turret, this is to say the side of the torrent is not sticking out enough?
thanks
Ronald,
I don't think there is an easy way to close up those hollow wheels, but I've seen folks use styrene disks and putty-- both methods take a lot of patience. There are several aftermarket sets, notably from Asuka, among others, both in resin and styrene. The turret cheek armor of the right side of the turret over the gunner's position is missing on the Tamiya, Italeri and Academy kits, but can be made from sheet styrene or putty easily enough. In my opinion, the relatively inexpensive (as compared to Dragon or Asuka kits) Academy "Calliope" kit has been a great option. It has a ton of extras to build several variants, two suspension systems and two sets of full wheels and both types of drivers. It goes together quite well, is readily available, seems accurate in shape, and has hatch and headlight details. The weld seams are not perfect, but can be added to with stretched sprue to give them a raised look, and it's a simple fix to add the turret cheek armor. It beats the old Tamiya kit, which is nicely molded but far less complete.
VR Russ
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 10:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextHay this thread mentioned the hollow wheels on the Tamiya kit of the M4A3, which I am building now. So does one take care of the care of the hollow backed wheels?
and the cheek of the turret, this is to say the side of the torrent is not sticking out enough?
thanks
Ronald,
I don't think there is an easy way to close up those hollow wheels, but I've seen folks use styrene disks and putty-- both methods take a lot of patience. There are several aftermarket sets, notably from Asuka, among others, both in resin and styrene. The turret cheek armor of the right side of the turret over the gunner's position is missing on the Tamiya, Italeri and Academy kits, but can be made from sheet styrene or putty easily enough. In my opinion, the relatively inexpensive (as compared to Dragon or Asuka kits) Academy "Calliope" kit has been a great option. It has a ton of extras to build several variants, two suspension systems and two sets of full wheels and both types of drivers. It goes together quite well, is readily available, seems accurate in shape, and has hatch and headlight details. The weld seams are not perfect, but can be added to with stretched sprue to give them a raised look, and it's a simple fix to add the turret cheek armor. It beats the old Tamiya kit, which is nicely molded but far less complete.
VR Russ
Agree with most of all of the info you guys have mentioned as suggestions. As for myself, I went with the DRAGON M4A3 VVSS 75mm (Wet) ETO kit about 3 years ago. I added the appropriate TMD and FORMATIONS replacement parts (Turret, Mantlet, Metal Barrel from ARMORSCALE, MG Barrels from RB Barrels, etc) to improve and "accuratize" the DRAGON kit, not being able to locate a TASCA (at that time) M4A3 VVSS 76mm (Wet) kit as a "donor". In all honesty, the extra work and expense were worth it. I DID use the kit-supplied "DS" Tracks, and so far, I've had no problems with them disintegrating or breaking apart.
Seems like Russ has already decided to use the ACADEMY "Calliope" -A3 kit, as he's already invested in it. The impression I got from his original post was that he was looking for advice on improving a TAMIYA -A3, NOT recommendations of which OTHER kits of the -A3 he should buy. With a little bit of extra work, as Russ has mentioned, and I agree, a creditable -A3 CAN be built with either of the later TAMIYA releases (M4A3 75mm (Wet), or M4A3 105mm) of their -A3 kits, as well as the ACADEMY kit he's just purchased. It just takes some extra doing, that's all. All of this proves that a modeller's real skills come into play when one wants to, or HAS to, "ADAPT, OVERCOME, and IMPROVISE"...
Russ, I'm glad that you're doing it "Your Way", and I admire you for it. I myself, have been "correcting and updating" Dragon's Shermans for years, with very satisfactory results. Even though I prefer the TASCA/ASUKA Shermans, I see NO reason why I should let my older, "inferior" DRAGON Shermans "wither on the vine", so to speak- I've made very good use of the aftermarket scene, kit-bashing, and scratch-building to improve these kits, rather than start all over again by buying the newer ASUKA Sherman kits, and having to buy A/M parts to improve these kits as well. Don't get me wrong- I DO have about a half-dozen TASCA/ASUKA US Shermans, not including their "JUMBO" and their M32B1 ARV, which I converted into a welded-Hull -B2...
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 10:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Not to muck up the works, but The New TMD has a fabulous 75mm turret to top your Tasca/Asuka kit:http://www.newtmd.com/Sherman-High-Bustle-Turret-Shell-D78461-GSCC
Pat
Hi, Pat! I wound up using a TMD 75mm Turret (for DRAGON) for my M4A3 build, along with a few other goodies both from TMD and FORMATIONS...
As to the Road Wheels, I used an older CYBERHOBBY "Late" (angled Upper Return Roller Arms) M4 Suspension with Stamped Road Wheels kit...
M4A1Sherman
Joined: May 02, 2013
KitMaker: 4,403 posts
Armorama: 4,078 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 12:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hay this thread mentioned the hollow wheels on the Tamiya kit of the M4A3, which I am building now. So does one take care of the care of the hollow backed wheels?
and the cheek of the turret, this is to say the side of the torrent is not sticking out enough?
thanks
Hi, Ronald! Both TMD and FORMATIONS make correct replacement Road Wheels, without hollow backs. They're pretty reasonably priced, too.
If you care to spend a few dollars more, you can go on ebay, and buy TASCA/ASUKA Suspension sets- They are available as "Early" (as seen on initial-production M4A1s and M3 Lee/Grants), with the centrally-mounted Return Rollers, "Mid-Production", with the horizontal Return Roller Brackets, and "Late", with the angled Return Roller Brackets... Your option, of course...
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 05, 2016 - 10:06 PM UTC
Dennis,
I wasn't implying the Dragon kit was bad-- I just had a devil of a time finding it-- it seemed OOP when I started my project and it's at a higher price point. I was very apprehensive about the Academy kit too, but was pleasantly surprised to find it was a new tool kit with all the parts in the box including the early and late suspension systems for the model of Sherman I needed, at the right price and was readily available. Frankly, I like the Tamiya kit too--- but as pointed out here, to make it complete you have to go with the aftermarket for sure. I guess I'm in rebellion, as I'm getting tired of paying big bucks for less than complete kits-- why is it that we can find any type of German armor out there, including paper panzers, but nobody makes a complete Sherman? We can get WWI tanks now with complete interiors, German and Russian tanks with complete interiors, where is the primary allied tank with a complete interior? Where is ultimate M4A3? We've been waiting long enough. Sorry about the rant, just wish we could get a manufacturer to give us a complete Sherman.
VR Russ
I wasn't implying the Dragon kit was bad-- I just had a devil of a time finding it-- it seemed OOP when I started my project and it's at a higher price point. I was very apprehensive about the Academy kit too, but was pleasantly surprised to find it was a new tool kit with all the parts in the box including the early and late suspension systems for the model of Sherman I needed, at the right price and was readily available. Frankly, I like the Tamiya kit too--- but as pointed out here, to make it complete you have to go with the aftermarket for sure. I guess I'm in rebellion, as I'm getting tired of paying big bucks for less than complete kits-- why is it that we can find any type of German armor out there, including paper panzers, but nobody makes a complete Sherman? We can get WWI tanks now with complete interiors, German and Russian tanks with complete interiors, where is the primary allied tank with a complete interior? Where is ultimate M4A3? We've been waiting long enough. Sorry about the rant, just wish we could get a manufacturer to give us a complete Sherman.
VR Russ
testpro
#383
Joined: November 22, 2012
KitMaker: 36 posts
Armorama: 30 posts
Posted: Friday, July 08, 2016 - 01:43 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextHay this thread mentioned the hollow wheels on the Tamiya kit of the M4A3, which I am building now. So does one take care of the care of the hollow backed wheels?
and the cheek of the turret, this is to say the side of the torrent is not sticking out enough?
thanks
Hi, Ronald! Both TMD and FORMATIONS make correct replacement Road Wheels, without hollow backs. They're pretty reasonably priced, too.
If you care to spend a few dollars more, you can go on ebay, and buy TASCA/ASUKA Suspension sets- They are available as "Early" (as seen on initial-production M4A1s and M3 Lee/Grants), with the centrally-mounted Return Rollers, "Mid-Production", with the horizontal Return Roller Brackets, and "Late", with the angled Return Roller Brackets... Your option, of course...
Thanks guys. the road wheels will be replaced. I found a process for the hollow back wheels and really do not look like fun to me or relaxing. the older kit is a problem but I think rather than dismiss the kit, I will upgrade several things and run with it. hay the left over parts I can play with as far as practice in adding things.
but I will have to check out the TASCA/ASUKA kits (what ever this means) and see how nice they are.
will got to go and break something!
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Friday, July 08, 2016 - 01:58 AM UTC
TASCA/ASUKA were/are model manufacturers out of Japan-- They are famous for their Sherman line. Originally, they were sold under the "TASCA" label. "TASCA" sold their molds to a company named "ASUKA", which has re-released them under that name. "TASCA" no longer exists as an armor model company. Modelers just use the term "TASKA/ASUKA" to indicate it's the same stuff.
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
testpro
#383
Joined: November 22, 2012
KitMaker: 36 posts
Armorama: 30 posts
Posted: Friday, July 08, 2016 - 02:12 AM UTC
ok time for a dumb question. I am trying to look up the web site of Formations and all I get is a log in which does not work because I never set up an account. what am I missing here? need to shop for parts, oh the parts
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