Hi all modelers I was just wondering that is it historically accurate if I put elefant and
flakpanzer IV wirbelwind in the same eastern front diorama? And does anybody know
any good reference site where is pictures about those tanks?

Ola Captain

Check out www.achtungpanzer.com and go to the panzer profiles here you will find information about botrh the tanks. I believe the Elefant only saw action at the Battle of Kursk and I can`t say much about the wirble wind. Check out both of them and match dates they saw action if they match then it would be quite likely they fought together at the same front

Well, the Elefant (a.k.a. Ferdinand) was definitely used in Kursk, used by the southern arm, Fourth Panzer Army and Detachment Kempf. The Fourth Panzer Army included three SS panzer divisions, including the "Grossdeutschland" panzer division. They were then given to the Ninth Army. The Ferdinands of the 653rd Battalion destroyed over 800 Soviet vehicles. After Kursk, the Elefant was given a bow machine gun, a new commander's cupola, and applied zimmermit to the front and sides of it. They fought at Anzio and Nettuno, most of which bogged down in rough terrain. The remaining ones were sent back to the Eastern Front. Sorry, I can't find anything on the Wirblewind right now....maybe later.

I've moved this over to the Armor forum to see if more people can chime in with information.

yups (++)

very appriorate. no problem with that.

If you are asking about Ferdinands at the time of the Kursk battle the Wirblewind was still on the drawing board ...but there are Ferdinands that lasted till the end of the war and 3 were used in the defense of Berlin...They did have flak weapons in the 653rd (the T34 with the flak quad comes to mind ) You sure chose two vehicles that were built in limited numbers ...about 90 Ferdinands were built (only about 50 were transformed to the Elephant) and the Wirblewind maybe a couple of hundred were made by the end of the war...It could have happened I guess.....

Rick

According to tehe Encyclopedia of German Tanks, there were 86 Panzer 4's converted during 1944, so the combination during Kursk (1943) is impossible.

OK guys, then i`ll make an eastern front winter diorama with stuG III G and an ferdinand.
And can i paint the ferdinand in white winter pattern or were there only that typical dark yellow-dark green pattern? and by the way thanks for your answers

I do have referene showing a vehicle of the 653rd from the 3rd company with a very scruffy whitewash in December 1943 around Brukenkopt Nikopol. This is still as a Ferdinand without zimmerit or machinegun in the front .hope this helps..

Rick

Could you show me that pic?