AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
How Were Tracks Finished at the Factory?
Posted: Monday, February 01, 2016 - 11:36 PM UTC
When a tank left the factory during WW2 how were the tracks finished? Were they painted? Plated? Were they castings or forgings? Did it vary by nation or time?
Rimfireroscoe
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Posted: Monday, February 01, 2016 - 11:59 PM UTC
Would be roar cast metal with I bit of light rust in the non raises detail only other thing would be if has hard rubber road pads.
Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 12:16 AM UTC
OK Chris, the track parts were not painted or plated? They were assembled on the vehicles as a raw cast steel. Was this true for all nations and times? Were there some track steels that rusted less or differently than others?
I read somewhere that Soviet tracks went from raw steel to a darker shade of rust without the intermediate step of an orangy rust. Was this true? If so, it would mean a different finish on those tracks than others.
I read somewhere that Soviet tracks went from raw steel to a darker shade of rust without the intermediate step of an orangy rust. Was this true? If so, it would mean a different finish on those tracks than others.
ahandykindaguy
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Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 02:08 AM UTC
I read just the other day here on one of the threads, that German tank tracks were painted with a very tough type of paint, and as such, would not show much, if any of the rust we usually see on most of our models.... including those I've built
Not sure if it's the truth, but I think the person making the quote is quite knowledgable about such things...if I'm not mistaken?
Just my 2 cents worth.
Not sure if it's the truth, but I think the person making the quote is quite knowledgable about such things...if I'm not mistaken?
Just my 2 cents worth.
brekinapez
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Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 02:14 AM UTC
In reality most vehicles didn't get as worn as we think because many didn't survive long enough, and for the most part kept active enough to keep rust off. A lot of weathering seen on models is just artistic license. Go take a look at construction vehicles and examine how they rust and get worn and realize they screw around in the dirt on purpose.
Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 02:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
In reality most vehicles didn't get as worn as we think because many didn't survive long enough, and for the most part kept active enough to keep rust off. A lot of weathering seen on models is just artistic license. Go take a look at construction vehicles and examine how they rust and get worn and realize they screw around in the dirt on purpose.
This is something I have often wondered about. I had a good look at some very busy equipment and was amazed how little rust there was on the tracks. They had a dull metalic shine.
On the other hand, I have seen freshly striped automotive sheet metal go rusty OVERNIGHT with no rain.
I can only guess that the steels are different and that used in modern construction equipment tracks must have something in it that keeps the rust at bay.
Would WW2 tracks have had the same sort of steel? Would it have been universal right around globe in all factories?
Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 02:47 AM UTC
Oh that is interesting! Were the tracks painted the same color as the rest of the tank or some other color?
ahandykindaguy
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Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 03:01 AM UTC
I Believe it was a dark, probably black color. You can see it in photos of tanks coming out of the factories, that they appear dark in color.
PzDave
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Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 03:47 AM UTC
Great question and comments! I live in the desert and local conditions would have some bearing. i.e North Africa 1941 etc or Iraq since the war there started. Vets from that conflict could shed some light on that too.
OldWarloke
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Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 03:56 AM UTC
According to my references most tracks were made from a high nickel steel alloy , so they generally don't rust much.
As for color Ampersans book Son Of Sherman has pics. of Sherman tracks being sprayed with a black color water proofing spray for shipping. The Russian T34 tracks were coated with a tough asphalt coating.
Donald
As for color Ampersans book Son Of Sherman has pics. of Sherman tracks being sprayed with a black color water proofing spray for shipping. The Russian T34 tracks were coated with a tough asphalt coating.
Donald
Pat1066
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Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 04:46 AM UTC
I don't have it in front of me (at work right now), but I'm pretty sure in my Speilberger Panther and It's Variants book there was a photo of a brand new Panther sitting in front of the factory door that was overall dark yellow, tracks and all. Not sure if that was a one-off, I don't recall any other photos showing something similar.
SgtSnake
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Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 06:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
OK Chris, the track parts were not painted or plated? They were assembled on the vehicles as a raw cast steel. Was this true for all nations and times? Were there some track steels that rusted less or differently than others?
I read somewhere that Soviet tracks went from raw steel to a darker shade of rust without the intermediate step of an orangy rust. Was this true? If so, it would mean a different finish on those tracks than others.
Wellll, raw unfinished steel starts rusting as soon as it's cold from the furnace. Bright rust is new and fresh. This would occur to the old types of steel tracks, say, after the tank stops for the night following a dry day when the dew falls. It is wiped away almost immediately. The older the rust the darker it gets, even to a black-brown but that doesn't work for vehicles in the field. Modern tracks(at least American tracks) get a coating of blackish rust preventative, kind of like thin permanent Cosmoline thinned down to spraying viscosity. The spare track shoes mounted on the tank show this finish. When it hits the ground, however, it gets removed in a couple-three days of action. If you're looking for in-use track color, a medium rust leaning on the darkish side, then a pin wash and light dusting of the terrain color will do the trick, unless I missed something-guys? Oops, I did, with the vehicle traveling on(through) natural ground, any steel contact points will not have more than a gray metallic 'look' to it under the terrain color except for the points of contact with centerguides and the drive sprocket. Traveling on rocky terrain or on roads for any length of time will 'polish' the high points of the track.
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 06:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
When a tank left the factory during WW2 how were the tracks finished? Were they painted? Plated? Were they castings or forgings? Did it vary by nation or time?
It's not clear if German tracks were coated in red primer at the factory. Jentz had no firm opinion one way or the other. In any event, the primer would soon be worn off by friction once the tracks were installed. The manganese steel used in WW2 German track was not very prone to rust. Late in the war, manganese was in short supply, so the composition of the steel may have changed.
Postwar Soviet tank tracks were finished in a bituminous black paint, but again, that would soon wear off the high points (bitumen is a fancy word for tar). Don't know what year this policy began.
Alystyr
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Posted: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 - 11:18 AM UTC
I was just about to ask a very similar question myself, so thanks!
My specific query would have been about early-WWII Soviet tracks, specifically for the KV series. I've got a set of KV tracks that I've base coated in GSI "Burnt Iron", and they look pretty good with that brownish cast to the overall steel color. However, I don't know if that would be suitable for "brand new" tracks or not.
My specific query would have been about early-WWII Soviet tracks, specifically for the KV series. I've got a set of KV tracks that I've base coated in GSI "Burnt Iron", and they look pretty good with that brownish cast to the overall steel color. However, I don't know if that would be suitable for "brand new" tracks or not.
Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 03:28 AM UTC
It sounds like in the absence of specific information we can't go far wrong with a dark color for the tracks, rusting per theater & length of service and dust or mud as specific to the location and time.
What about WW1 subjects? There are some great kits out of these once rare tanks. Were the same steels used as later tracked vehicles used? I have one of the Takom Renault FT17 kits in 1/16 with a lot of track showing.
What about WW1 subjects? There are some great kits out of these once rare tanks. Were the same steels used as later tracked vehicles used? I have one of the Takom Renault FT17 kits in 1/16 with a lot of track showing.
retiredyank
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Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 03:36 AM UTC
Addressing German tanks from WWII, I have read that they were painted with a resilient, black enamel.
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 09:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Addressing German tanks from WWII, I have read that they were painted with a resilient, black enamel.
Russian tank tracks were painted with a tough, bitumen-based black paint, at least during the Cold War.
I have never seen a reference to German tank tracks being painted in black enamel, though German cannon barrels were, as a special, heat-resistant paint was needed to prime them. However, the steel used in German tracks was rather dark, and slightly brownish in tone, due to the manganese content.
ArtyG37B
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 08:15 AM UTC
I know this doesn't answer the question of factory finished tracks, but here is a good example of in use modern tracks
srmalloy
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 10:33 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I know this doesn't answer the question of factory finished tracks, but here is a good example of in use modern tracks
A National Geographic 'Ultimate Factories' program on the refurbishment of M1 tanks had some interesting shots; the tracks are taken off the tank and refurbished, but by the time the tank is ready for them to be put back, they're already rusted. It's harder to see, but after the reassembled tank finishes performance testing the rust has already worn off.
As an illustration of how fast metal rusts, the stripped hulls and turrets are bead blasted to clean them down to bare metal; they sit outside for a few days waiting for a specialized railroad flatcar, at which point they're nicely orange from rust.
Posted: Friday, February 05, 2016 - 12:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI know this doesn't answer the question of factory finished tracks, but here is a good example of in use modern tracks
A National Geographic 'Ultimate Factories' program on the refurbishment of M1 tanks had some interesting shots; the tracks are taken off the tank and refurbished, but by the time the tank is ready for them to be put back, they're already rusted. It's harder to see, but after the reassembled tank finishes performance testing the rust has already worn off.
As an illustration of how fast metal rusts, the stripped hulls and turrets are bead blasted to clean them down to bare metal; they sit outside for a few days waiting for a specialized railroad flatcar, at which point they're nicely orange from rust.
That is interesting! The pictures do not tell the whole story of what parts are cleaned by use. I'll bet that the areas not in contact with road wheels, sprockets or the earth were still rusty.