_GOTOBOTTOM
Dioramas
Do you love dioramas & vignettes? We sure do.
Normandy trench Ground work help
MattEa
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: April 14, 2016
KitMaker: 129 posts
Armorama: 120 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 - 03:18 AM UTC
I am building a diorama of a Panther tank and machine gun team watching a tench line waiting for the enemy to make contact. It is supposed to be set in normandy. The pictures below show so far what I have got. My idea is to have the machine gun team and guy with binoculars watching the line. The tank commander will be in the turret, and the other panzer crew man will be leaning against the turret talking to the commander. The sitting down guy will be sitting on top of the trench talking to the zombie looking guy (he still needs some work and reposing).

The barbed wire will obviously be set up later once i drill holes.

I am making the square cut out near the back a weapons cache, and might still include a camo net over the MG nest.

I guess what I am looking for is how best to spruce up my ground work,right now it looks like the Germans are defending the 18th green.











kurnuy
Visit this Community
West-Vlaaderen, Belgium
Joined: August 22, 2009
KitMaker: 1,491 posts
Armorama: 997 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 - 04:09 PM UTC
Hello ,

the tank looks good although without the tracks. You have said it yourself it's the groundwork that needs a lot of attention.

Personally i would make a square whole next to the trench big enough to fit the tank in . I like the idea of a defensieve position somewhere in a field in Normandy but a restyle of the groundwork is required here . Try to apply a thick layer of soil with tufts of grass and some vegetation in front of the trench instead of the barbed wire. If i were you i wouldn't use the wire at all.It looks out of scale IMHO.

The figures are to shiny , i mean the paint . Giving the soldiers a coat of Matt Varnish will do nicely .

A lot to think about for the moment .

Kurt
Hohenstaufen
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: December 13, 2004
KitMaker: 2,192 posts
Armorama: 1,615 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 - 04:40 PM UTC
Sorry, but positions in the middle of fields in Normandy don't really work, due to Allied air supremacy. Most German blocking positions were set up along the reverse slopes of hedgerows or sunken roads with loopholes pointing forward. Occasionally outposts would be set up in the middle of cornfields, disguised by the crop to allow enfilade fire into the flank or rear of attacking infantry. But the tank needs to go in a wood or a sunken lane behind the position to allow it to run up and down out of sight. The high banks with hedges along them are still characteristic of the Normandy terrain in the Bocage country, so really you need a hedge and bank somewhere in your diorama.
MattEa
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: April 14, 2016
KitMaker: 129 posts
Armorama: 120 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 - 07:57 PM UTC
Thank you for the responses, being my first diorama I need all the help I can get. In terms of a field position being unrealistic, my other idea was either adding a wooded position, or I was thinking of having a bombed out building with the MG team on an upstairs window, and the tank lying in wait in the rubble on the lower level, similar to this building.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=mini+art+budapest&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-ca&client=safari#imgrc=alxcO1uacoQeeM%3A
MattEa
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: April 14, 2016
KitMaker: 129 posts
Armorama: 120 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 - 09:15 PM UTC
I do have these building pieces to work with if anyone has any ideas?

Sean50
Visit this Community
Manche, France
Joined: March 20, 2007
KitMaker: 340 posts
Armorama: 328 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 - 10:33 PM UTC
Hello there,

To add to the comments above, your base needs just a few tweaks and then should look better.

If you didn't fancy the idea of building a hedgerow or similar you still could do with beefing up the amount of vegetation. Normandy is very green, even in summer.

The sort of postion you have modelled might be better suited to the Eastern Front but if you want to stick with your Normandy theme, here are a few suggestions:

I'm no artist with a computer, but hopefully this makes sense. You want to add a ton of longer grass. If the field is pasture, rather than crop, then the grass would be mostly long. some wild flowers would add some interesting colour perhaps.
Add some spoil from the trench around the edges, also in front of the sandbags a little.
Put some corrugated iron or a barn door or something over the trench, then cover it with netting and or a Zeltbahn.



Some photos from near Caen of German positions.

Willy Klein:


Franz-Josef Kneipp:


A small extra, here's an extract of a British map showing some of the 12.SS positions in the area, how they were laid out etc. Blue is confirmed, red unconfirmed:


As you can see, they're mostly along hedges and boundaries, but some are out in the fields.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Sean
MattEa
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Joined: April 14, 2016
KitMaker: 129 posts
Armorama: 120 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 - 10:46 PM UTC
Hello Sean,

Those suggestions and pictures are great! Right now I am debating working with the above suggestions, or having the panther lying in ambush in a rubbled bombed out building! If I go the route of the building, I will instead do a Normandy diorama for my Tasca Firefly VC that is arriving tomorrow and work with these suggestions!
jrutman
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 - 11:20 PM UTC
I agree with all Sean pointed out except for the spoil in front of the sandbags. We are taught to put all dirt like that behind the position so it isn't seen and so give away the position. To be seen is to be killed! And for the Germans in Normandy this also meant from the sky. Anything moving during the day was pounced on by Jabos. Notice in the picture Sean posted the corrugated tin sheet covering the dug out. Overhead cover was also important because of airbursts. It was a very deadly place. The tank tracks would also be camouflaged if possible as these would lead an aircraft directly to the tank!!
It also may be too late but sandbags were rarely used by the Wehrmacht in a scenerio like this one. Sandbags are better for WWI trenches or Vietnam.
Jut pointing this out for realism sake and it is after all,of course,your dio!!! So have fun!
J
Sean50
Visit this Community
Manche, France
Joined: March 20, 2007
KitMaker: 340 posts
Armorama: 328 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2016 - 11:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I agree with all Sean pointed out except for the spoil in front of the sandbags.



I stand corrected
The idea I meant was to try and blend them in a little more with the ground.

Cheers

Sean
jrutman
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 12:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I agree with all Sean pointed out except for the spoil in front of the sandbags.



I stand corrected
The idea I meant was to try and blend them in a little more with the ground.

Cheers

Sean



No worries,I knew you probably meant that but I always try to keep in mind most modelers never served in the military and so only depend on movies,etc for their info. And we all know how dependable THAT is. LoL
J
Sean50
Visit this Community
Manche, France
Joined: March 20, 2007
KitMaker: 340 posts
Armorama: 328 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 12:35 AM UTC
You mean 'Fury' isn't a true story?
bkkinman
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Joined: December 29, 2007
KitMaker: 57 posts
Armorama: 53 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 12:45 AM UTC
I think the other- perhaps easier route is to just put in a some trees and brush in front of and behind/next to the tank and MG position. As mentioned- the open field would be a non-starter for the tank.

HTH
Bret
jrutman
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 04:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

You mean 'Fury' isn't a true story?



Heeheehee Yes and wrestling is real!!
Seriously though,there may be a bit of wonkiness to the story line but there was a heck of a lot of uber realistic stuff in Fury. Very real.
J
 _GOTOTOP