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M3A2 Bradley CFV - camouflage
Vodnik
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 10:43 AM UTC
I have finished painting basic camouflage on my M3A2 Bradley. Now I will start painting various details.

The brown camouflage color looks strangely orange on photos. In reality it looks much better - I used Tamiya Red Brown lightened a tiny bit with white. I don't use NATO Brown paint as it is too red for US armor.








Rgds,
Pawel
GunTruck
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 11:07 AM UTC
Nice so far Pawel. Is there anything you can do to adjust the alignment of your tracks? The Sprockets and Idler is probably just press-fit into place, but from front and rear view both runs appear askew at these points.

Might just be my tired old eyes...

Gunnie
GeneralFailure
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 11:17 AM UTC
Hey comrad,
your bigfoot paint job has gone down in modeling history, so you proved you know your way around nato camouflage. This is another excuisite model.
There's just one funny thing. It seems the wheels have seen a few interesting moments in rough terrain. But the rest of your Bradley looks as if it just rolled out of the factory paint booth. I haven't seen a real Bradley up close and personal in almost 2 decades, so I can't tell how it should look. But maybe you need to check some picture reference material.
Some of the boys in this forum make real Bradleys dirty for a living, so they can probably guide us in this.
Wonderful work, Pawel !
AJLaFleche
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 11:18 AM UTC
The last skirt/covers on both sides are upside down. The handles are hanging against gravity and the insde of these panels do not have handles to them and are flat with no significant detaililing. If you are going to open them up, you'll need to do more than reverse the two . Also, the photos/illustrations in Squadrons M2/M3 in Action, do not show the camo to be carried over to the inside.
Vodnik
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 11:22 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Nice so far Pawel. Is there anything you can do to adjust the alignment of your tracks? The Sprockets and Idler is probably just press-fit into place, but from front and rear view both runs appear askew at these points.



Photos were taken with quite short focal lenght of lens what caused a little distorsion of perspective. It made tracks look more askew than they really are. But I will take a closer look at them later- sprockets and idlers are actually glued (they are from DML MLRS kit), so I cannot adjust them, but I can adjust road wheels (set them a bit further from the hull) if necessary.

Rgds,
Pawel
Vodnik
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 11:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

There's just one funny thing. It seems the wheels have seen a few interesting moments in rough terrain. But the rest of your Bradley looks as if it just rolled out of the factory paint booth.



That's because I applied mud to wheels and tracks before I attached side armor plates. I decided to do it at this stage, as it would be much more diffictult later. Once I'm done with the detail painting and decals, I will apply heavy weathering to the rest of Bradey to match the appearance of suspension parts

Rgds,
Pawel
GeneralFailure
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 11:29 AM UTC
Doh ! I should have been smarter than to think you didn't notice this...
(general with foot in mouth).
Vodnik
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 11:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The last skirt/covers on both sides are upside down. The handles are hanging against gravity and the insde of these panels do not have handles to them and are flat with no significant detaililing. If you are going to open them up, you'll need to do more than reverse the two . Also, the photos/illustrations in Squadrons M2/M3 in Action, do not show the camo to be carried over to the inside.



What you see are not the "insides" of armor skirts! Skirts are just reversed - the left one is attached upside down (together with its mounting bracket) on the right side of the vehicle and right one is attached on the left side. It is very common practice. So what you see are still "outsides". And those handles are bolted tightly to the armor - they just cannot hang naturally as you would expect. See photo below:


Rgds,
Pawel
GeneralFailure
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 11:39 AM UTC
wonderful picture. A tank washing station would surely be an interesting challenge to model. Almost tastes SO good I'd suggest it for a diorama group build ... ?
Vodnik
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Posted: Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 11:49 AM UTC
Washing one more time (decontamination training actually in this case):


On the vehicle on the picture the crew simply attached last skirt upside down, without swapping it with the one on the other side. It is even more common practice than the one I've shown on my model. Clearly visible is the camouflage, bolts and "handle hanging against gravity"

Rgds,
Pawel
AJLaFleche
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Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 01:34 AM UTC
My apologies. I stand corrected.
Vodnik
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Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 02:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

My apologies. I stand corrected.



Never mind. I guess the book you mentioned shows pictures of older M2/M3 or M2A1/M3A1 Bradleys. They had hinged skirts and once raised they indeed showed their featureless "insides". Skirts on M2A2 and M3A2 Bradleys are not hinged - to raise them you have to remove three bolts, which attach mounting bracket to the armor, rotate skirt and the bracket upside down and replace those three bolts.

Rgds,
Pawel
Vodnik
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Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 02:22 AM UTC
Here is a couple of photos I've taken today in natural sun lighting. They show much more true colors (although still not 100% correct, but it may be caused by my monitor settings).




Rgds,
Pawel
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Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 03:51 AM UTC
The final skirt is attached with 3 bolts. The three bolts are removed and then the skirt is rotated 180° so it is upside down with the outside facing out. The right skirts remains on the right side and the left skirts on the left side except for the last skirt. I have seen it put on the other side or left on the same side. Depends on how that crew does it. You can easily tell the bolts that are used on the photo of the camouflaged Brad going through chemical decon, they are aluminum in color since the paint has been worn off from constant loosening and tightening.

The handles are made of heavy gauge cable, much like the type used on old highway guardrails or power line guywires. Stiff as heck and remain in that same position regardless of the angle of the skirt. Many handles get a "rearward sweep" to them from constant contact with brush and terrain as the vehicle travels forward.

BTW, that portion of the wash rack is called the bird bath.
Tin_Can
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Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 05:02 AM UTC
I've been following this build (the dark-side of an aircraft modeller coming out) and am totally amazed by it. The detail is great and that paint job is first-rate. Perhaps somebody could enlighten me as to why the last skirt is turned upside down. Is it to prevent a build-up of mud and debris around the idler?

While comparing yours to some reference photos, I thought you all might be interested in this photo I found:
SS-74
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Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 05:04 AM UTC
Looked awesome, I have only one comment, the tracks seems to be cantered inwards instead of rest parallel to each other. But I know nothing about modern armor, so I don't know if this should be the case or not, just knew that some judges in modeling show pick on stuff like this.

But an awesome build nevertheless.
Vodnik
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Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 06:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Looked awesome, I have only one comment, the tracks seems to be cantered inwards instead of rest parallel to each other.



Gunnie already noticed that before. As I wrote already I used wide angle lens (short focal length) what multiplied the effect of just slightly askew tracks on the photo. Next time I will take photos from larger distance using longer focal length - this will corect the perspective on picture. I have already corrected the tracks position by repositioning road wheels slightly further from the hull, but the problem was really mainly with the way the photo was taken, not tracks themselves.

Rgds,
Pawel
Vodnik
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Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 06:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Perhaps somebody could enlighten me as to why the last skirt is turned upside down. Is it to prevent a build-up of mud and debris around the idler?



Yes, that's exactly the reason. The mud build-up around the idler can cause throwing the track.

Rgds,
Pawel
SEDimmick
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Posted: Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 08:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text





Nice its a M2A3 with an extra armor package I've never seen before.

Armour66
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Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 06:06 AM UTC
Pawel, I am dying to know...how do you get the crisp lines for the camo scheme?
USArmy2534
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Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 06:45 AM UTC
What I find somewhat interesting is that the majority of the comments in a dicussion board on the camo scheme of an M3 CFV are not about the camo scheme but about the model; kind of funny but very understandable.
Jumping on the bandwagon: GREAT job on the painting scheme and the crispness. When you weather it, you may want to blend a little, though. Only factory-fresh are crisp (though I know you are going to weather it). Also, the brownish not showing up brownish is a lighting issue. As you saw with the 100% sun light, you saw how unfiltered the color is. If you used something like a flash, that may screw up how the color shows up. Basically the 100% sun light is the best way to show the true color.
Vodnik
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Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 08:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Pawel, I am dying to know...how do you get the crisp lines for the camo scheme?



Chris,

I was able to achieve this result thanks to the good quality airbrush. I use Iwata Eclipse HP-CS with 0.35 mm nozzle. I first painted the whole model forest green. Then I marked the camouflage lines using the thin brush and Future. In the past I used soft pencil, but I always had to be careful later to fully cover pencil lines with camouflage colors. When I use Future, I don't have to worry if some of it will be visible after camouflage is applied, as I will cover the whole model with Future anyway to prepare it for washes and decals and everything will be evened out.

Once I had camouflage lines marked I applied brown paint and then black paint. I used thin paint, low pressure and kept airbrush nozzle very close to the model surface (about 5 mm). I didn't use any masks. I first paint the outline - usually not thicker than 1 mm. Then I carefully make the line wider, moving airbrush closer to the middle of painted area. Once the outline is 3 - 4 mm wide, I move airbrush a bit further away from the surface and fill outlined areas with paint.

Painting camouflage the way I did it, takes a lot of time. Painting the black areas alone took over 3 hours!

Rgds,
Pawel
Vodnik
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Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 09:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

When you weather it, you may want to blend a little, though.



I sure will do it I will use dry pastels, pigments and will airbrush a misty coat of heavilly thinned earth/dust paints.


Quoted Text

Also, the brownish not showing up brownish is a lighting issue. As you saw with the 100% sun light, you saw how unfiltered the color is. If you used something like a flash, that may screw up how the color shows up. Basically the 100% sun light is the best way to show the true color.



Yes, I'm aware of all this. For the first few photos posted I used regular desk lamp for lighting. I know it has yellow light, but I use Canon Digital Rebel camera and it has custom white ballance setting available, with which you can adjust the color temperature of lighting using some white object as a reference (I used a sheet of bright white printer paper). It corrects colors significantly, but not completely as my photos show.

Rgds,
Pawel
Armour66
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Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 09:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Chris,

I was able to achieve this result thanks to the good quality airbrush. I use Iwata Eclipse HP-CS with 0.35 mm nozzle. I first painted the whole model forest green. Then I marked the camouflage lines using the thin brush and Future. In the past I used soft pencil, but I always had to be careful later to fully cover pencil lines with camouflage colors. When I use Future, I don't have to worry if some of it will be visible after camouflage is applied, as I will cover the whole model with Future anyway to prepare it for washes and decals and everything will be evened out.

Once I had camouflage lines marked I applied brown paint and then black paint. I used thin paint, low pressure and kept airbrush nozzle very close to the model surface (about 5 mm). I didn't use any masks.

Painting camouflage the way I did it, takes a lot of time. Painting the black areas alone took over 3 hours!

Rgds,
Pawel



Thanks, Pawel. I just got my new Badger 200 GSX. Supposed to be great with the fine detailing (either a .35 or .50) I am not sure which one it came with.
Vodnik
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Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 09:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

[Thanks, Pawel. I just got my new Badger 200 GSX. Supposed to be great with the fine detailing (either a .35 or .50) I am not sure which one it came with.



Please re-read my earlier answer to your question - I edited that post and added some additional information.

Rgds,
Pawel
 _GOTOTOP