I am looking to model some "What If" scenarios if the Cold War were to erupt into actual combat. I am thinking of starting with a East German advance on West Germany. Which was the predominant Tank in East Germany ca. 1985? Research has told me the T-55 and T-72. But I am having some trouble finding variants used. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

East German troops had weird helmets that were distinctive from other Warsaw Pact forces. ICM has an old set of East Germans. These figures aren't in combat poses, but you can use the rifles (which have the texture on the butt reproduced) and the helmets on other figures.



Or you could get some heads and place them on other figures.
http://hlj.com/product/HRN-HWH02/Mil

A couple reference photos of the equipment I'm referring to.

East German AK Buttstock


East German helmets

I read somewhere that these distinctive helmets were designed and produced for use by the WW2 Wehrmacht, but the war ended before they could be issued. The KVP/NVA inherited warehouses full of them.

I had read that as well. You can see the evolution from the 1935-45 heer helmet.

The M1956 was designed and tested during WWII, but not adopted or produced. The East Germans picked it up and produced it so as not to offend the Soviets by using the existing M1935 Stahlhelm. The Germans didn't have the resources during WWII to produce warehouses full of items made of steel and not use them.

Hmmm, as for Liberation from the East goes you have the rumored NVA unit which was supposed to be armed like the Bund. One scenario I could think of is NVA holding open a bridge, water crossing or other choke point for assaulting WARSAWPAC members. Just for giggles,a couple of NVA BTR60s secure a crossing point for Soviet, Polish, Hungarian, etc T62 and T55 snorkel equipped tanks. Another could be Red partisans(Bader Mienhoff, Red Brigade, IRA etc) ambushing an American Artillery convoy to halt in theater use of tactical nukes. Funny I enlisted in 1975 and the WARSAWPAC enemy then, was portrayed as a armor rich conventional force coming through the front door, as Special Operations groups and local communist terror groups conducted operations in NATOs' rear areas to first prevent use of weapons of mass destruction (1.Nukes, Chemical) since the USA did not sign the treaty against first use of nukes, and didnot sign to chemical use restriction till Nixon signed off on that treaty (The tear gas used in Vietnam was restricted from use by the treaty). If you go 60s (The dreaded two front war) you have all those full colour US army vehicles to do, and figures with full color patches-You know like the Berlin Brigade being attacked.

According to the book: The History of the German Steel Helmet 1916-1945, the Stahlhelm was not replaced by the ballistically superior m1956 because Hitler wanted the Stalhelm retained as a symbol for the German people... Or some similar stupid idea. Been a long time since I read the book.

It's a great idea for a diorama. I really like alt history. Good luck!

Hi,
you're right the NVA used in 1985 only T-55s and T-72s. The T-54 was already taken out of service and sold or stored as reserve. Only the border guards still used a small number of them. All T-55s used by the NVA were produced in Poland or Czechoslovakia. The Tamiya kit includes these Versions. Of course there are minor diferences between those Tanks used by the polish or czechoslovakian army and those used by the NVA (lamps, markings, etc.). In 1986 the first T-55AM2 and T-55AM2B reached NVA units. Those were equipeted with the czechoslovakian kladivo fire control system.
The NVA recieved its first T-72s in 1978 from the sovietunion. T-72M appeared in 1981 and the T-72M1 in 1986. For me the T-72 seems to be more of an Problem - the only kit which fits is the Tamiya kit and the dicussion which version it represents is long and tiring.
I think that those rumors about an NVA unit equipped with american tanks is a myth. I read about that aswell in "Soviet bloc elite Forces" from 1985. That would be known today. Maybe the warsawpact was not unhappy about these stories or even spread them.
Alongside tanks the NVA had many other vehicles like shilkas or SCUDs etc etc. The variety is almost endless.
looking forward to your project.

1985? Mainly T-55 in use, T-72's were coming in, and T-34/85 in "deep storage".

There are MANY Cold War scenarios you could do...I always wondered about the "Berlin Brigade" units if the balloon went up...Fulda Gap is always popular as it was the expected attack area. There is also the Baltic to the North and Crimea to the South.

It could be interesting to have a what-if Cold War Campaign to play with some of these scenarios.

Hornet makes East German replacement heads

This does sound very interesting.I think I still have some old magazines from the 80's with photos and info about East Germany's military at that time.I will look later and will send you a IM if I can find it.

As part of the Berlin Brigade in the late 80's I can tell you that we were pretty much written off. A handful of tanks, artillery pieces and just a few thousand troops were not going to accomplish much against what was stacked against us in the PRA's surrounding Berlin. During the Cuba Missile Crisis, President Kennedy knew that if there was any type of combat during the blockade that Berlin was gone. G.O.N.E. Gone. It was one thing he was willing to trade to keep missiles out of Cuba. During the rest of the cold war we knew, being 110 miles into Soviet territory, that we were either a ready made POW camp or nuclear ash. Our equipment wasn't even current to what our forces had in the Zone (West Germany). M-60's where M1's were all over the west, no Bradleys just 113's, we had steel pots, not many kevlars tho our unit got k-pots about 6 months into my 2 years there. M-16a1's not A2's. Jeeps and a few Humvees that went to high command. The brits had a few Chieftains, some artillery and the same with the french. We weren't much of a fighting force just a speed bump. It was theorized that they would bypass Berlin and just leave it blockaded and starve us out.

Kennedy just traded off the known nukes in Turkey-So I guess for the Soviets a victory, and for USA, a political victory.
As for Berlin, that is a logistical/political goof from WW2. I guess with the WW1 guys running things, they had to flip a coin on who was a bigger threat-The Soviet Union or a united Germany? Besides like Korea the US reduced forces so they really just represented a possible threat of US reaction vs a real threat. Pull nukes and the US had no real force to counter the WARSAWPAC. Only thing being in NATO did/does is tie up the US decision matrix, which has to always include "What about our NATO mission?". Comes up in the Korean War, and Vietnam, and all the other operations executed or planned. Thing is everyone forgets that France has Nukes so if the Soviets had been able to herd all their WARSAW kitty s west, I can't see France having a problem telling the Soviets in the UN General Assembly, they plan to start dropping nukes in DDR, Poland, Czechoslovakia etc. Bottom line is for the Soviet Union it wasn't 1945 anymore, and for NATO it wasn't 1939.

Erik,

There is a great fictional novel by Harold Coyle, titled Team Yankee. It's about the Soviets crossing the Fulda Gap into West Germany during the mid 1980s. It is told from the point of view of characters on both sides and has a lot of descriptive texts that describe the equipment that would have been used.

Dan

I have been thinking about modeling a West German Leopard 2A4 and a disabled East German BMP 1. The main problem I have is finding figures for the Dio. I could make due without East German figs, but finding 1985 era West German/NATO figs is proving problematic. I would assume this could take place in the Fulda Gap.

Dragon has a set of West Germans from the period...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/italeri-Dragon-Model-kit-cod-343-scala-1-35-german-bundeswehr-paratroops-/281831088642
Italeri used to sell it,you could still find it.
or convert existing figures with M1 steel helmets with net, use G3 rifles (Italeri set of weapons), MG42... be creative. Remember,west germans had tight pants!

Easy German helmet heads? Try Hornet:
http://hornetandwolf.com/hornet_lists/headset_list.htm

If you want real Pact-side inspiration, Ralph Peters' _Red Army_ is the best. Gives you lots of ideas ranging from Recon units penetrating the FEBA to air assaults into cities to seize bridges.

Tim W.

Three excellent fictional books from that era:
Ralph Peter's Red Army
Harold Coyle's Team Yankee
Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising
READ these books ! All are well written. I've read each book multiple times and am probably due to read them again when the snow flies.

This would make a GREAT campaign, WWIII

Great book list and don't forget the Third World War, August 1985, by Sir John Hackett. They even had hypothetical combat photos in that one.

Best wishes,

Ian

For the Canadian view there is First Contact by Kenneth MaCksey

I think Team Yankee is based in Hackett's fictional world.