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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
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Dragon M60 released
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
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Posted: Friday, June 10, 2016 - 12:57 AM UTC
Dragon M60 "slick" kit is out in Japan now: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10360756

Unfortunately for some reason DML decided to release what I considered to still be a "work in progress".... Some errors from M60A2 were corrected, so it is certainly an improvement (correct hull length now, correct angle of glacis plate, removed left fuel filler cap, correct rear hull doors), but the lower hull is still far from correct (particularly the front plate is messed up and I'm not sure if DML included all required wheels position corrections before pushing it to production). Driver's hatch is still wrong, even though DML had photos showing how it should work in M60...

The turret shell seems to be quite good, but the TC cupola is not quite correct and the canvas cover is missing from its front. I also suspect that the gun barrel was not corrected, so it is probably too long and too thin. I will probably receive a sample from DML, so will be able to verify everything - currently I can only describe what I see in HobbySearch photos (and what I know from the design process).

But hey, this is the first M60 slick in 1/35 in plastic!

Petition2God
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Colorado, United States
Joined: February 06, 2002
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Posted: Friday, June 10, 2016 - 08:26 AM UTC
Thanks for sharing Pawel. I'll probably wait for AFV Club's (not that they announced it but I'm hoping). Ouch, $66 before shipping?! Dragon is not getting my business for sure.
avenue
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Philippines
Joined: May 25, 2013
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Posted: Friday, June 10, 2016 - 09:04 AM UTC
wonder if Dragon will release israel M-60 with ERA....
barkingdigger
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ARMORAMA
#013
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 20, 2008
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Posted: Friday, June 10, 2016 - 04:57 PM UTC
Hard to see from the CAD images, but the cupola looks a tad "long" to me - like they stretched it in the middle. The missing MG canvas is a bummer.

Not sure yet if it is a worthy replacement to an Esci/Tamiya kitbash...
phantom8747
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Alabama, United States
Joined: March 09, 2015
KitMaker: 281 posts
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Posted: Friday, June 10, 2016 - 05:58 PM UTC
Dragon vs AFV Club(if they do one) I'll wait for AFV Club about the same price.Other than surface texture their M6oA1 is great.
phantom8747
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Alabama, United States
Joined: March 09, 2015
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Posted: Friday, June 10, 2016 - 05:59 PM UTC
Or I'll get the Def Models slick turret for one of my Esci kits
TankCarl
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Rhode Island, United States
Joined: May 10, 2002
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Posted: Friday, June 10, 2016 - 08:54 PM UTC
I can not be sure from the drawings, buit, I HOPE the stiffening ribs on the long sponson boxes are all full width.only the A2 had the center 2 shortened,to avoid rubbing the mantlet cover. Is the hull narrower? Or still wider than Academy's?
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
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Posted: Friday, June 10, 2016 - 10:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I can not be sure from the drawings, buit, I HOPE the stiffening ribs on the long sponson boxes are all full width.only the A2 had the center 2 shortened,to avoid rubbing the mantlet cover. Is the hull narrower? Or still wider than Academy's?


Only the width of the very front of the hull was changed as it was too narrow (because front fenders were too wide) in the M60A2 kit. The sposon boxes were not changed.
BruceJ8365
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Kansas, United States
Joined: December 25, 2012
KitMaker: 441 posts
Armorama: 441 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 11, 2016 - 07:23 AM UTC
The instructions show rear tail lights like the m48 armoured ones. I'm guessing it was just a mistake in the drawing, I can't imagine them getting that wrong since it's the same as all the other m60 variants.
chnoone
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Armed Forces Europe, United States
Joined: January 01, 2009
KitMaker: 1,036 posts
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Posted: Saturday, June 11, 2016 - 10:34 AM UTC
Same goes for the drivers hatch ... the spure indicates it has been corrected although the instructions suggest otherwise.
I've preordered one some time ago so all in all it's good news to see major things fixed ... lifting my confidence to overcome the remaining issues more easily.
So I am still happy to see this version of the M60 come out at all !
Although DRAGON seems to have produced some "troubled" kits lately I am currently building their M1A2 V2 still being the overall best kit of the M1s around in my opinion.
And it also should be noted that after their M60A2 "disaster" DRAGON has reacted quickly to make correcting to the issues with have previously disappointed the customers ... just like TRUMPETER on their Leo 2A4 CAN rear grill.
So it's looks like some are listening which is a positive prospect for the future I think.

Cheers
Christopher
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
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Posted: Saturday, June 11, 2016 - 11:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The instructions show rear tail lights like the m48 armoured ones. I'm guessing it was just a mistake in the drawing, I can't imagine them getting that wrong since it's the same as all the other m60 variants.


Correct taillights are included in the kit. It's just instructions error.

And M60A2 have different taillights, so your statement isn't quite true.
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
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Posted: Saturday, June 11, 2016 - 11:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text


And it also should be noted that after their M60A2 "disaster" DRAGON has reacted quickly to make correcting to the issues



Oh, you gave me a good laugh... "Dragon has reacted quickly"... Good one, thanks.

I reacted, not Dragon, and I wasn't quick enough, so in the end they run out of time (as they apparently set some deadline they didn't want to miss for some reason) to implement all changes I had requested and they released unfinished design, still with a lot of quite serious errors... Originally Dragon planned to release the M60 by adding just a new turret to the M60A2 kit hull (minus the CBSS bulge of course). To their credit: they indeed were willing to change the design and retool many parts once I showed them how bad the M60A2 was, but unfortunately in the end the release schedule was more important than implementing all corrections

Yes, it is better than M60A2, but it could have been so much better if they added just a couple of weeks at the CAD stage before cutting tools
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
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Posted: Saturday, June 11, 2016 - 02:04 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Same goes for the drivers hatch ... the spure indicates it has been corrected although the instructions suggest otherwise.
I've preordered one some time ago so all in all it's good news to see major things fixed ... lifting my confidence to overcome the remaining issues more easily.
So I am still happy to see this version of the M60 come out at all !
Although DRAGON seems to have produced some "troubled" kits lately I am currently building their M1A2 V2 still being the overall best kit of the M1s around in my opinion.
And it also should be noted that after their M60A2 "disaster" DRAGON has reacted quickly to make correcting to the issues with have previously disappointed the customers ... just like TRUMPETER on their Leo 2A4 CAN rear grill.
So it's looks like some are listening which is a positive prospect for the future I think.

Cheers
Christopher



I wish that CYBERHOBBY/DRAGON/BLACK PLAGUE would be as "quick" in correcting ALL of their 1/35 US/Allied kits as they supposedly had done with the M60A2... I WILL NOT go into detail about all the gaffs, mistakes and general lack of attention that C/D/BP "lavish" upon their US/Allied kits. That's already been done umpteen times over the last five years, or so... No matter; I'm STILL going to buy the AFV CLUB -A2, instead. I'll wait for comprehensive reviews of DRAGON's M60 before I buy one...
chnoone
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Armed Forces Europe, United States
Joined: January 01, 2009
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Posted: Saturday, June 11, 2016 - 05:07 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


And it also should be noted that after their M60A2 "disaster" DRAGON has reacted quickly to make correcting to the issues



"Oh, you gave me a good laugh... "Dragon has reacted quickly"... Good one, thanks. "




Considering the re-design to production process and taking other aspects like overall- and ongoing production-schedules, re-tooling, available resoureces, budgets and finances, logistics etc. etc. into account .... I still review their actions in the last few months as "quick".

Cheers
Christopher
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
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Posted: Saturday, June 11, 2016 - 06:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text


I still review their actions in the last few months as "quick".


Yeah, but I wasn't laughing about the "quick" part...
ARENGCA
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Arizona, United States
Joined: February 13, 2002
KitMaker: 382 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 08, 2016 - 09:48 PM UTC
Is there any additional information at this point? You said there were still some questions remaining, about fixes you suggested like the roadwheel stations. Getting impatient for an M60 that looks right to someone who rode them...me!
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