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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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M5A1 Stuart Side Skirts
VMIVince
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North Dakota, United States
Joined: September 28, 2009
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Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 - 07:09 AM UTC
I'm currently building the old Tamiya M5A1 (I know, I know), and I'm curious about the side skirts. From the references I have, I can find precious few photos of vehicles with the skirts, save from very late in the war. Were they added late in the production run, or is likely that these are just newer vehicles that haven't yet had the skirts removed by the crew or knocked off in operations?

ericadeane
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Michigan, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 - 07:38 AM UTC
They were issued from the factory. What you see is many units' removal of what they saw as impediment to the useful running of the tank.
americanpanzer
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Iowa, United States
Joined: May 12, 2014
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Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 - 07:42 AM UTC
The technical manual in my collection for the Light Tank M5A1 (dated Dec. 22, 1942) shows the side armor skirts. But as posted by Roy they often didn't last long in combat zones or operational situations
VMIVince
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North Dakota, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 - 08:35 AM UTC
Thanks fellas. That's just what I needed to know.
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
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Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 - 02:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm currently building the old Tamiya M5A1 (I know, I know), and I'm curious about the side skirts. From the references I have, I can find precious few photos of vehicles with the skirts, save from very late in the war. Were they added late in the production run, or is likely that these are just newer vehicles that haven't yet had the skirts removed by the crew or knocked off in operations?



Hi! Please don't misconstrue my meaning over what I am about to ask you- I'm just wondering if you are going to go about correcting the TAMIYA M5A1..? There are several "corrections" conversions out there that allow you to do so, if you're so inclined. (ACCURATE MODELS or CROMWELL{?}, and TANK WORKSHOP for Front Glacis & Rear Upper Hull Sides & Engine Deck, and TIGER MODEL DESIGNS for the Turrets)...

Sad to say, by the time you spend the money correcting the TAMIYA kit, you could have bought the entirely adequate AFV CLUB M5A1 in either "early" or "late" versions. But if accuracy is not an issue...

Again, I don't mean to step on anyone's toes...
KurtLaughlin
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 18, 2003
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Posted: Wednesday, June 22, 2016 - 04:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The technical manual in my collection for the Light Tank M5A1 (dated Dec. 22, 1942) shows the side armor skirts.


They weren't armor, just plain carbon steel sheet.

Tanks with removed sand shields can be identified by the hinge plates welded to the bottom edge of the sponson sides or a series of clips under the sponson. Also, note that a number of restored vehicles have had the hinge plates ground off.

KL
VMIVince
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North Dakota, United States
Joined: September 28, 2009
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Posted: Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 02:42 AM UTC
Hi Dennis,

No thin skin here - it's just a plastic tank, right? I'm tracking on the multiple issues with the old Tamiya kit. I basically just wanted a relatively cheap, simple kit to test some scratch building and painting/weathering techniques without having to fight the kit itself the entire time. I'll be replacing the tracks and .30 cal barrels with some leftovers from the Academy kit so it doesn't look completely absurd, and adding some weld lines, rivets, etc. Unless they are particularly heinous (i.e. some HobbyBoss 1/48 aircraft) dimensional issues have never really stuck out to me. I also have an AFV Club M5A1 Early, so it will be interesting to do a side-by-side to compare the two. I understand the Tamiya kit is rather squished, among other things.



Vince
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
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Posted: Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 03:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Dennis,

No thin skin here - it's just a plastic tank, right? I'm tracking on the multiple issues with the old Tamiya kit. I basically just wanted a relatively cheap, simple kit to test some scratch building and painting/weathering techniques without having to fight the kit itself the entire time. I'll be replacing the tracks and .30 cal barrels with some leftovers from the Academy kit so it doesn't look completely absurd, and adding some weld lines, rivets, etc. Unless they are particularly heinous (i.e. some HobbyBoss 1/48 aircraft) dimensional issues have never really stuck out to me. I also have an AFV Club M5A1 Early, so it will be interesting to do a side-by-side to compare the two. I understand the Tamiya kit is rather squished, among other things.



Vince


Yeah, the TAMIYA kit is "squished"- Upper and Lower Hulls are too short, among other things. Once you build the two kits and set them side by side, the differences between the two will become readily apparent. There are other issues with the TAMIYA M5A1, as well. Conversely, the AFV CLUB M5A1s aren't totally accurate, either. The NEW TMD offers some great updates, along with new Turrets and other tidbits that will make your M5A1s shine! The NEW TMD also offers a great M5 Conversion "mini-kit" and an absolutely SUPERB M8 HMC (75mm Howitzer) Full-resin Conversion Kit, meant for the AFV CLUB M5A1 kits. I built one of those for my own collection!

I've repeatedly stated that an all-new PLASTIC M8 HMC should be produced. There are quite a few modellers that would prefer an all-plastic kit of this vehicle rather than tackle the NEW TMD Conversion; I can understand that, and I can empathize with them. The NEW TMD M8 HMC Conversion kit posed no problems for me, as I am completely at ease working with resin and building full resin kits and conversions of this magnitude.

Experienced modellers take note: The NEW TMD M8 HMC builds up into a beautiful representation of an ACCURATE M8 HMC, and I also heartily recommend their M5 Conversion to all US/Allied fans!
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Joined: May 02, 2013
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Posted: Thursday, June 23, 2016 - 03:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The technical manual in my collection for the Light Tank M5A1 (dated Dec. 22, 1942) shows the side armor skirts.


They weren't armor, just plain carbon steel sheet.

Tanks with removed sand shields can be identified by the hinge plates welded to the bottom edge of the sponson sides or a series of clips under the sponson. Also, note that a number of restored vehicles have had the hinge plates ground off.

KL


Hi, Kurt! It's great that you bring up these points about the Hinge Plates and/or clips underneath the Sponsons. Modellers should take note of these details if they opt to model a "late" M5A1 with the Sand Shields having been removed. I'm thinking that some US Tankers in the field might have removed the Sand Shields in the same way, possibly leaving "grind marks", etc. Am I right, Kurt?

I haven't built any of my "late" AFV CLUB M5A1s yet, but will take this detail into account, because I have several of them that I want to build without the Sand Shields...
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