Looking for confirmation that the M706 had a 36" diameter turret ring when fitted with the M706, perhaps in Hunnicutt's Armored Cars?

Help, anyone?

Thanks.

I haven't found any confirmation in the Hunnicutt book, but the diameter of the Cadillac-Gage T50 turret (same as the V100/M706 one) ring as fitted to Australian M113A1's is 863.6mm (or 34" )

http://www.mheaust.com.au/Aust/Research/M113T50/M113T50.htm

H.P.

Thanks, Frenchy.

That's interesting - I found a Cadillac Gage document referring to a '34" turret', so maybe that's the internal ring diameter?

Here (http://antipodeanarmour.blogspot.com.au/p/new-zealand-m113-fov-modelling-notes.html?m=1), which mentions a hole being cut in the M113 roof of 937mm. Wouldn't a 863.3mm turret fall through that?

For good measure, I've taken a look at Michael K.Cecil's Australian Military Equipment Profiles Vol 4 : M113 & M113A1 from 1962 to 1972, and he mentions the 34 inch diameter turret ring....

H.P.

Thanks - does he mention anything more about the hull modifications to accomodate the T50 turret?

Here are a few related lines from the book :

"Fitting of the turret [../...] involved cutting a hole in the hull roof to accommodate the 863.6mm (34 inch) diameter turret ring[.../...]The Workshop team had worked on the assumption that the turret hole should be concentric with the original commanders cupola, but when the turret was first fitted, it was found to strike the front engine hatch hinge lugs[.../...]Eventually, the hole was re-cut with its center 12.7mm (0.5 inch) to the rear of the original commanders cupola."

H.P.

OOOPS ! It looks like I may have been a bit too hasty in my conclusion. Here's another excerpt from the same book :



So it appears that the 34 inch diameter cutout was done on the first T50 trial vehicle, but it was widened on the following APC's...

H.P.

That is confusing. Thanks though.

Tried a 1/16 scratch build of the Cadillac Gage '34" turret' today, using the information from a visit to the Australian War Memorial Annex and from Frenchy:





With the correctly scaled spacer.

Hi Gary
Very nice work. As you've probably become aware the T50 turret doesn't actually make contact with the M113 when installed on that vehicle. There is a riser/collar that sits between the turret & M113 hull.
I think the reason for that is to ensure the guns of the turret clear the various hull top fixtures - drivers hatch, aerial guards, filter box -on Aust & NZ versions.
As a consequence, the T50 turret fitted to the M113 is different from that fitted to the V100, in that it features a skirt around the base, to protect the join between the turret base & riser collar:- V100 - http://data3.primeportal.net/apc/brent_sauer/v-100_commando/images/v-100_commando_17_of_20.jpg -
M113 - http://asnz.nz/forums/topic/14837-work-on-the-m113/ -
Mal

The riser/collar is also called a plinth - http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1206485122/Kiwi+M113+EAAK+WIP -

Mal

Thanks, Mal.

Ack on the spacer ring. Here's a pic of the mocked-up ring as it stands:



And here it is with the tweaked turret:



Seems to be working, so far, though there's some serious refining to do.

Hi Gary
Nice. Are you making the guns capable of elevating? Is that the Chris Ludwig 1/16th M113 kit?
I've got a couple of Ultimate Soldier 1/18th scale M113's that I'm slowly converting to NZ M113's with T50 turrets, but I've pretty much put them aside to do a Scorpion.
M113's - http://hobbyhavoc.com/forum/index.php?topic=4046.0 -
Scorpion - http://hobbyhavoc.com/forum/index.php?topic=4559.0 -
You have to sign in to see the pics.

Mal

Mal,

I think it's Chris' kit. Have some roadwheels coming from Shapeways. Diehl 513 tracks are the next challenge.

The guns won't elevate - I also plan on having the entire vehicle closed up.

There's some discussion of whether the turret will be copied in resin for others, should they be interested.

Just registered for the hobby havoc site - looking forward to seeing the 1/18 pics.

Regards,

Greg

Some more progress - improved the proportions of the front of the turret, roughed out the mantlet, & obtained the Aber 1/16 .30 & .50 cal barrels.

I suspect that they all had the same 34" turret ring and that required a 36.87" hole cut in the roof to accommodate the ball race. The ring diameter in other words is not the same as the size of the hole in the roof plate.

Well, the first attempt at building a mantlet from flat parts & bending them to shape was a bit of a fail.



The second, from .50 cal (1/2" or 12.7mm) tubing worked a little better. Considering it'll be under a weather boot, it'll work. Those Aber barrels look lovely!



Friction mounted in the turret itself.



And with the start of the commander's hatch.



Not terrible.

Nice work on the turret Greg. I want to build one of the Philipines Marines M706 with the twin machine gun turret. To me, it looks similar to the aavp7a1 kit. Of cource, with bit modification it can work.

Mike,

Thanks for your comments.

Google 'Cadillac gage 1 meter turret' - there's lots of line drawings out there. I scratch built one for my pre-trumpeter M1117 scratch build. Easy build.

Greg

Greg, thanks for the tip. I'll check it out soon. Btw, do you pics of your pre-trump M1117? I have the trump M1117 kit as well and I was bit disappointed that it doesn't come with interior. So do the rest of the Commandos. I don't understand why manafuctures only do half way jobs? Anyway, keep up the good work

Thanks Mike. I'd have to dig it out of storage. Got as far as the base coat, but never tackled the suspension or tyres. I did compare it to the Trumpeter kit. Came close, dimension-wise.

So, picked up the HobbyBoss M706 to plagiarise the turret hatch. Was impressed/surprised by the size difference (& how closely it scales with my efforts, TBH)



Decided to rework the splash ring that surrounds the commander's hatch, moving from .020 x .020 (0.5mm) to .030 x .030 (0.75mm). Also, instead of using multiple pieces, I'll fashion it from one bit, bending it around some pins drilled into the turret roof:



I've also started to open up the viewing episcopes, & adding weld beads.

Hi Greg
Looks good

Mal

Thanks Mal

Real life has been brutal this week, seriously hampering progress on the T50.

Take three on the commander's hatch seems to be working well, thanks in part to HobbyBoss providing a three dimensional reference. Also, have started hacking up a CD case for the episcopes. Will paint the inside of the turret sea foam green so that the correct shade is visible through the epis themselves.



And a side view...only another four facets to go until the rough shape of the hatch is complete.



(Oh, the gap at the bottom of the spacer is intentional.)

All comments welcome, as always.

Coming along nice Greg. I bet that CD case cutting/hacking was a mess. Those clear cases are very britial and crack easy. I tried using rpthem in the past but kept cracking on me when I was cutting. So, I gave up and found some clear stryne at the hobby shop. So, is this thing going to be completely scratch build?