Just wondering if any M60 received the MASSTER camo while still in Germany ?
The A1s are fairly well covered and the time frame might fit before all M60 were
replaced.
Any ideas/input ?
Cheers
Christopher
Hosted by Darren Baker
M60 in MASSTER Camo ?
chnoone
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Posted: Monday, October 03, 2016 - 08:30 PM UTC
HeavyArty
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Posted: Monday, October 03, 2016 - 08:45 PM UTC
I am pretty sure all M60s had been replaced by M60A1s when the MASSTER scheme was used in the mid-'70s. M60A1s were fielded in early to mid-'63 in Europe.
thathaway3
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Posted: Monday, October 03, 2016 - 09:08 PM UTC
I agree with Gino. I arrived in Germany in October of 1972, and I'm pretty sure all the Armor units were equipped with A1's at that time. (I was in a Field Artillery unit, but used to go out and FO with the tankers quite a bit.)
We started applying the MASSTER paint scheme in the 8th ID in V Corps in the late spring/early summer of 1973.
So I'd have to say that it's unlikely that there were any M60's around by the time the MASSTER scheme came into use.
We started applying the MASSTER paint scheme in the 8th ID in V Corps in the late spring/early summer of 1973.
So I'd have to say that it's unlikely that there were any M60's around by the time the MASSTER scheme came into use.
DerGeist
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Posted: Monday, October 03, 2016 - 09:10 PM UTC
Its a possibility I suppose. Maybe not stationed in Germany, but Guard M60's were seen in MERDC on REFORGER exercises.
210cav
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Posted: Monday, October 03, 2016 - 09:12 PM UTC
.....as the other folks have commented, Yes, they all had that pattern:-)--<
Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 08:02 AM UTC
Hello Christopher,
I am thinking that there is at least a single photo of an M60 in the Squadron book that sure looks like it is in the MASSTER scheme. I am not where I can check on it, but, I recall that it may have been in a position beneath a bridge or behind some other terrain feature.
Given the time frame that has been pointed out, what I am recalling may very well have been somethings that was applied in the field that just resembles "7th Army"
Camo.
As an interesting side note, I saw an M109 still in MASSTER at Hohenfels in 1981.
That was a bit of a surprise to me.
Respectfully,
Allen
I am thinking that there is at least a single photo of an M60 in the Squadron book that sure looks like it is in the MASSTER scheme. I am not where I can check on it, but, I recall that it may have been in a position beneath a bridge or behind some other terrain feature.
Given the time frame that has been pointed out, what I am recalling may very well have been somethings that was applied in the field that just resembles "7th Army"
Camo.
As an interesting side note, I saw an M109 still in MASSTER at Hohenfels in 1981.
That was a bit of a surprise to me.
Respectfully,
Allen
Bravo1102
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Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 09:07 AM UTC
If you go back to M60 in Action and ancient Combat Illustrated, AFV-G2, and IPMS magazines of the 1970s and early 1980s you will find contemporary pictures of slick M60s in the so called "seventh Army" scheme.
There were a handful of slick M60s in Germany until late 1970s when the M60A1 RISE program replaced them. Or at least that is what contemporary sources indicate.
There were a handful of slick M60s in Germany until late 1970s when the M60A1 RISE program replaced them. Or at least that is what contemporary sources indicate.
chnoone
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Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 10:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hello Christopher,
I am thinking that there is at least a single photo of an M60 in the Squadron book that sure looks like it is in the MASSTER scheme. I am not where I can check on it, but, I recall that it may have been in a position beneath a bridge or behind some other terrain feature.
Given the time frame that has been pointed out, what I am recalling may very well have been somethings that was applied in the field that just resembles "7th Army" Camo.
As an interesting side note, I saw an M109 still in MASSTER at Hohenfels in 1981.
That was a bit of a surprise to me.
Respectfully,
Allen
I'm asking, because way deep in my memory, I believe to have seen a pic of a slick M60 sporting that camo scheme. But if my memory is fooling me then I'll do an M60A1 in MASSTER ... a slick M60 in MASSTER would be really something out of the ordinary though !
Thankx & Cheers
Christopher:-H
BootsDMS
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Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 11:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextHello Christopher,
I am thinking that there is at least a single photo of an M60 in the Squadron book that sure looks like it is in the MASSTER scheme. I am not where I can check on it, but, I recall that it may have been in a position beneath a bridge or behind some other terrain feature.
Given the time frame that has been pointed out, what I am recalling may very well have been somethings that was applied in the field that just resembles "7th Army" Camo.
As an interesting side note, I saw an M109 still in MASSTER at Hohenfels in 1981.
That was a bit of a surprise to me.
Respectfully,
Allen
I'm asking, because way deep in my memory, I believe to have seen a pic of a slick M60 sporting that camo scheme. But if my memory is fooling me then I'll do an M60A1 in MASSTER ... a slick M60 in MASSTER would be really something out of the ordinary though !
Thankx & Cheers
Christopher:-H
I can confirm that on Page 10 of the Squadron/Signal book there is a photograph of an M60 in the "Seventh Army scheme"; the tank is behind a clump of bushes, festooned with sleeping bags and the Commander is wearing a parka.
I further recall a copy of Military Modelling from - I think - roughly the 80s - with an article and drawings of this scheme; sadly I don't think I've got it any more. There may have been a photograph as part of the article but I'm unsure.
There is a sketch showing a MAASTER pattern applied to an M60 on the Panzerbaer website, although this could equally be for an M60A1.
Brian
Bravo1102
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Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 11:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextHello Christopher,
I am thinking that there is at least a single photo of an M60 in the Squadron book that sure looks like it is in the MASSTER scheme. I am not where I can check on it, but, I recall that it may have been in a position beneath a bridge or behind some other terrain feature.
Given the time frame that has been pointed out, what I am recalling may very well have been somethings that was applied in the field that just resembles "7th Army" Camo.
As an interesting side note, I saw an M109 still in MASSTER at Hohenfels in 1981.
That was a bit of a surprise to me.
Respectfully,
Allen
I'm asking, because way deep in my memory, I believe to have seen a pic of a slick M60 sporting that camo scheme. But if my memory is fooling me then I'll do an M60A1 in MASSTER ... a slick M60 in MASSTER would be really something out of the ordinary though !
Thankx & Cheers
Christopher:-H
I say again that slick M60s were in Europe until the whole force was updated to M60A1 RISE in the late 1970s. I'll check my copy of M60 in Action as I remember the picture too.
The Army in Europe was operating on a shoestring budget and couldn't afford a whole force upgrade until after the mid 1970s. It's noted in a couple of works on the history of US defence policy.
Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 11:59 AM UTC
Hello Brian,
Way to go! I am glad that you have confirmed it for us. I know that I have a copy of the magazine you are referring to...somewhere in the cave. That sketch was a big help and I still need to thank the man who took the time to share that with the modeling community.
Me and my modeling buddy both did vehicles in the 7th scheme back in the eighties. We were always trying to find something to use for a reference. A good picture of a 113 or 109 helped with the colors, but, the patterns did not extrapolate well for the Big Boys.
One of the best pictures that I used was a really nice recruiting page showing a pair of freshly painted M60A1's moving through a German town. But even then, we had to guess as to what the over all pattern was.
Respectfully,
Allen
Way to go! I am glad that you have confirmed it for us. I know that I have a copy of the magazine you are referring to...somewhere in the cave. That sketch was a big help and I still need to thank the man who took the time to share that with the modeling community.
Me and my modeling buddy both did vehicles in the 7th scheme back in the eighties. We were always trying to find something to use for a reference. A good picture of a 113 or 109 helped with the colors, but, the patterns did not extrapolate well for the Big Boys.
One of the best pictures that I used was a really nice recruiting page showing a pair of freshly painted M60A1's moving through a German town. But even then, we had to guess as to what the over all pattern was.
Respectfully,
Allen
Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 12:15 PM UTC
Hello Stephen,
Yes, I remember enjoying the same publications as a yute. In fact, somewhere around the cave, I have the magazine that you and Brian are referencing with the paint guide for the M60 in the 7th pattern.
The M60's that I served on we're in variations of the MERDC scheme and that was as late as 1985. My Cavalry unit was rescinded, so we we never upgraded to the M60A1 or anything later than that.
I saw some video on CMTC Hohenfels recently and OPFOR were using VisMod 113's. I do not know if there was a modeler assigned to the unit, however, they all had very nice paint jobs that had more than a passing resemblance to the MASSTER colors...at least I thought so.
Take a look on YouTube and tell me what y'all think.
Cheers,
Allen
Yes, I remember enjoying the same publications as a yute. In fact, somewhere around the cave, I have the magazine that you and Brian are referencing with the paint guide for the M60 in the 7th pattern.
The M60's that I served on we're in variations of the MERDC scheme and that was as late as 1985. My Cavalry unit was rescinded, so we we never upgraded to the M60A1 or anything later than that.
I saw some video on CMTC Hohenfels recently and OPFOR were using VisMod 113's. I do not know if there was a modeler assigned to the unit, however, they all had very nice paint jobs that had more than a passing resemblance to the MASSTER colors...at least I thought so.
Take a look on YouTube and tell me what y'all think.
Cheers,
Allen
Bravo1102
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Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 01:10 PM UTC
Polly S came out with a complete set of the colors with a booklet with some of the patterns. I had it and used to do Roco minitanks as they were the only modern US armor models you could find the mid-late 1970s.
I remember the Tamiya M577 had the MASSTER scheme in the instructions and their M106 was the first kit to have the MerDC scheme illustrated on the box.
I remember the Tamiya M577 had the MASSTER scheme in the instructions and their M106 was the first kit to have the MerDC scheme illustrated on the box.
27-1025
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Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 05:20 PM UTC
This site briefly covers MASSTER and has a couple of color pics of M60'
https://sites.google.com/site/merdccamo/home
https://sites.google.com/site/merdccamo/home
spzabt501
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Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 06:04 PM UTC
Just thought I'd throw in my two cents:
In October 1971 I was a PFC straight out of AIT, newly assigned to the 3rd Bn, 37th Armor in Erlangen, FRG (part of 2nd Brigade, 1st AD).
I was a member of the Scout Platoon, in HHC, and the Battalion line companies were equipped with M60A1's. However. the Battalion HQ Tank Section was equipped with round turret M60's. I remember this distinctly, because even back then, I was modelling, and took a big interest in paint schemes, and vehicle types. The slick M60's were gone within my first year in the Battalion.
Each line company had a platoon (5 tanks) worth of M60A1's in "admin storage" with no crews, and vehicle cannibalization, while officially forbidden, was common. Due to this, and lack of crews, the battalion operational tank count was 12 or so per company (2 platoons of 5 + 2 Co HQ) for a total of 38 or so for the entire Battalion (3 Companies of 12 + 2 Bn HQ).
Our situation in the Scout Platoon was pretty bad too...first we were equipped with the "wonderful" M114A1E1 (20mm gun), and second, our manning level was only good enough to keep 5-6 out of 10 vehicles (9 M114's and 1 M113) assigned in service at any time. I also recall a shortage of spare parts for us and the tanks alike.
So far as camouflage goes, everything was painted a very dark, almost black semi-gloss olive drab, with black stars, and white registration and bumper numbers. About 2 years later (1973 or so) everything was repainted in the "7th Army" scheme.
Hope this is somewhat helpful.
In October 1971 I was a PFC straight out of AIT, newly assigned to the 3rd Bn, 37th Armor in Erlangen, FRG (part of 2nd Brigade, 1st AD).
I was a member of the Scout Platoon, in HHC, and the Battalion line companies were equipped with M60A1's. However. the Battalion HQ Tank Section was equipped with round turret M60's. I remember this distinctly, because even back then, I was modelling, and took a big interest in paint schemes, and vehicle types. The slick M60's were gone within my first year in the Battalion.
Each line company had a platoon (5 tanks) worth of M60A1's in "admin storage" with no crews, and vehicle cannibalization, while officially forbidden, was common. Due to this, and lack of crews, the battalion operational tank count was 12 or so per company (2 platoons of 5 + 2 Co HQ) for a total of 38 or so for the entire Battalion (3 Companies of 12 + 2 Bn HQ).
Our situation in the Scout Platoon was pretty bad too...first we were equipped with the "wonderful" M114A1E1 (20mm gun), and second, our manning level was only good enough to keep 5-6 out of 10 vehicles (9 M114's and 1 M113) assigned in service at any time. I also recall a shortage of spare parts for us and the tanks alike.
So far as camouflage goes, everything was painted a very dark, almost black semi-gloss olive drab, with black stars, and white registration and bumper numbers. About 2 years later (1973 or so) everything was repainted in the "7th Army" scheme.
Hope this is somewhat helpful.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 06:52 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Just thought I'd throw in my two cents:
In October 1971 I was a PFC straight out of AIT, newly assigned to the 3rd Bn, 37th Armor in Erlangen, FRG (part of 2nd Brigade, 1st AD).
I was a member of the Scout Platoon, in HHC, and the Battalion line companies were equipped with M60A1's. However. the Battalion HQ Tank Section was equipped with round turret M60's. I remember this distinctly, because even back then, I was modelling, and took a big interest in paint schemes, and vehicle types. The slick M60's were gone within my first year in the Battalion.
Each line company had a platoon (5 tanks) worth of M60A1's in "admin storage" with no crews, and vehicle cannibalization, while officially forbidden, was common. Due to this, and lack of crews, the battalion operational tank count was 12 or so per company (2 platoons of 5 + 2 Co HQ) for a total of 38 or so for the entire Battalion (3 Companies of 12 + 2 Bn HQ).
Our situation in the Scout Platoon was pretty bad too...first we were equipped with the "wonderful" M114A1E1 (20mm gun), and second, our manning level was only good enough to keep 5-6 out of 10 vehicles (9 M114's and 1 M113) assigned in service at any time. I also recall a shortage of spare parts for us and the tanks alike.
So far as camouflage goes, everything was painted a very dark, almost black semi-gloss olive drab, with black stars, and white registration and bumper numbers. About 2 years later (1973 or so) everything was repainted in the "7th Army" scheme.
Hope this is somewhat helpful.
WOW!!! ALL of the info in this thread is AMAZING! Now I'm in a quandary over which paint scheme I want to represent on my M60-slick, once I get around to buying one!!!
BootsDMS
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Posted: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 - 11:06 PM UTC
It's taken me most of the day but I've been racking my brains for a 1:35 M60 finished in the MASSTER scheme which somewhere along the line I recalled seeing; eventually I found it: try the Pattonmania website - hopefully this link will work and take you to a modeller's efforts by the name of Jakko:
http://www.patton-mania.com/M60_Patton/M60_modeling/Jakko_s_M60_Kits/jakko_s_m60_kits.html
If not I'm sure a bit of judicious Googling will turn it up.
It does look quite different and hopefully will inspire (it has me - I now fancy producing Commander's resin MBT 70 in the scheme as a What-If!)
Brian
http://www.patton-mania.com/M60_Patton/M60_modeling/Jakko_s_M60_Kits/jakko_s_m60_kits.html
If not I'm sure a bit of judicious Googling will turn it up.
It does look quite different and hopefully will inspire (it has me - I now fancy producing Commander's resin MBT 70 in the scheme as a What-If!)
Brian
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 02:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It's taken me most of the day but I've been racking my brains for a 1:35 M60 finished in the MASSTER scheme which somewhere along the line I recalled seeing; eventually I found it: try the Pattonmania website - hopefully this link will work and take you to a modeller's efforts by the name of Jakko:
http://www.patton-mania.com/M60_Patton/M60_modeling/Jakko_s_M60_Kits/jakko_s_m60_kits.html
If not I'm sure a bit of judicious Googling will turn it up.
It does look quite different and hopefully will inspire (it has me - I now fancy producing Commander's resin MBT 70 in the scheme as a What-If!)
Brian
Hi, Brian!
I used your Pattonmania link in your last post- Your link took me directly to the Pattonmania site, and subsequently, I went right to Jakko's M60-slick build with the MASSTER camo scheme...
Just thought you might have wanted to know if it worked- It did for me, anyway...
TheGreatPumpkin
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Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 03:01 AM UTC
Hi Guys,
Here's a shot of an M60 during Reforger V "Certain Charge" in 1973 in MASSTER:
I built one of these a couple of years ago using the CMD conversion, an Esci hull and some M48 bits for good measure. I think it turned out rather well:
Regards,
Georg
Here's a shot of an M60 during Reforger V "Certain Charge" in 1973 in MASSTER:
I built one of these a couple of years ago using the CMD conversion, an Esci hull and some M48 bits for good measure. I think it turned out rather well:
Regards,
Georg
BootsDMS
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Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 03:49 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextIt's taken me most of the day but I've been racking my brains for a 1:35 M60 finished in the MASSTER scheme which somewhere along the line I recalled seeing; eventually I found it: try the Pattonmania website - hopefully this link will work and take you to a modeller's efforts by the name of Jakko:
http://www.patton-mania.com/M60_Patton/M60_modeling/Jakko_s_M60_Kits/jakko_s_m60_kits.html
If not I'm sure a bit of judicious Googling will turn it up.
It does look quite different and hopefully will inspire (it has me - I now fancy producing Commander's resin MBT 70 in the scheme as a What-If!)
Brian
Hi, Brian!
I used your Pattonmania link in your last post- Your link took me directly to the Pattonmania site, and subsequently, I went right to Jakko's M60-slick build with the MASSTER camo scheme...
Just thought you might have wanted to know if it worked- It did for me, anyway...
Dennis,
'Glad to be of help. I do think the MASSTER scheme is interesting.
I've built a couple of models including the M113, M577 and an M60A1 all in this scheme and it certainly rings the changes on the display tables.
Brian
TankCarl
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Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 05:47 AM UTC
George,
Your cobbled together M60 was EXACTLY what my first ride in C Co,1/37th looked like,paint wise.My tank,was C-23,next to mine on the line, was C-24,in basic dark OD or Forest green,NO camo (1975)
C25 (plt sgt) and C-26 (plt leader) were M60A1's w/ camo.
C-66,and C68 (Co.CO,and XO) were camo / Blade A1's.
We had a gasser M-88,in camo.
Your cobbled together M60 was EXACTLY what my first ride in C Co,1/37th looked like,paint wise.My tank,was C-23,next to mine on the line, was C-24,in basic dark OD or Forest green,NO camo (1975)
C25 (plt sgt) and C-26 (plt leader) were M60A1's w/ camo.
C-66,and C68 (Co.CO,and XO) were camo / Blade A1's.
We had a gasser M-88,in camo.
BruceJ8365
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Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 07:40 AM UTC
Tankograd's book on MASSTER/DUALTEX/MERCD book has some slick 60's in MASSTER.
It's my favorite pattern, just has a classic look to it. Actually, when you view the vehicles in that European environment it seems to work really well too.
Probably posted this too many times, but my favorite camo (not my best build):
It's my favorite pattern, just has a classic look to it. Actually, when you view the vehicles in that European environment it seems to work really well too.
Probably posted this too many times, but my favorite camo (not my best build):
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 02:36 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Tankograd's book on MASSTER/DUALTEX/MERCD book has some slick 60's in MASSTER.
It's my favorite pattern, just has a classic look to it. Actually, when you view the vehicles in that European environment it seems to work really well too.
Probably posted this too many times, but my favorite camo (not my best build):
Hi Bruce, and Everyone Else! This post of mine is WAAAAY OFF TOPIC!!!
I like your quote down in the lower left corner of your "page", about "witches and emerald cities", and the paperwork involved when "houses fall on witches"...
Your quote instantly reminded me that I have a story that doesn't involve any witches, but DOES involve a house. Back in 1978-1980, I had gotten kind of sick of the Automobile Business, (I DID go back after a couple of years), so I thought that I'd try a "change". That "change" entailed becoming an Insurance Man, working for a Brokerage just outside Syracuse, NY. I got my New York State Insurance Licenses to sell and service Life, Accident & Health, and Home & Property/Home-Owner policies. Never DID get around to getting a license for "Auto"... I'll try to make this as short as possible-
I serviced a really "freaky" claim for a nice young, recently married suburban couple, of whom the Husband was a real "do-it-yourselfer". He decided that he was going to fix the roof of their home, which needed to have a few roof tiles replaced, by himself. What he did was, he had managed to get a small scaffold hung over the peak of his house' roof, and held in place by ropes that he had tied to the rear bumper of his pickup truck, which was parked around the opposite side of the house. He was up on the roof working on replacing some of the roof tiles, when unbeknownst to him, his wife decided to go shopping. She had been down in the basement, doing laundry, so she had NO IDEA of what "Hubby" was up to. Her car was at the repair shop for whatever reason, so you guessed it, she had to use his pickup...
Not realizing where "Hubby" was, and not noticing that his scaffold was over on the opposite side of the house, and ALSO not noticing that his scaffold was tied up to the rear bumper of the pickup, "Wifey" got into the pickup, started her up, and proceeded to drive away. Consequently, the scaffold, with "Hubby" still on it, was DRAGGED up the roof, over the peak, and down the other side... TRUE STORY...
Poor guy was a mess, and she felt absolutely AWFUL- I still feel sorry for those two "kids", but you have to admit, this story sounds like it had just come out of some old Buster Keaton or Laurel & Hardy comedy film...
For a short time, we at the Insurance Agency couldn't quite figure out which type of insurance that this accident claim should be filed under. I was basically an "underling", but I sided with one of the managers as wanting to file the claim under "Accident & Health", which as it turned out, was the correct thing to do. Their A&H claim was PAID, but this is definitely one of those "stranger-than-true" stories that is also kind of funny at the same time... Things COULD HAVE easily taken a more tragic turn, if the young couple's neighbor that lived across the street from them hadn't stopped "Wifey" as quick as he did... Life in American "Suburbia"...
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 09:46 PM UTC
Hell Chris,
Thanks for this information. In fact, the recruiting ad photo that I referenced earlier is shown.
Allen
Thanks for this information. In fact, the recruiting ad photo that I referenced earlier is shown.
Allen
Posted: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 - 09:52 PM UTC
Hello Georg,
That is a real beauty! It looks like she is out on the prowl, looking for some Leopard skin! Thanks for sharing your work.
Allen
That is a real beauty! It looks like she is out on the prowl, looking for some Leopard skin! Thanks for sharing your work.
Allen