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Sol Model: M3A5 Hull and Turret
varanusk
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Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 12:45 PM UTC


Sol Model has a new conversion for the M3A5 Grant, which comes with the whole upper hull and turret.

Read the Full News Story

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
Cantstopbuyingkits
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Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 04:07 PM UTC
Is this for the Tamiya or Acedamy kit?
ericadeane
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Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 04:46 PM UTC
The plastic donor parts are the same color as Academy sprues. Given that the Tamiya Grant (tan plastic) and Lee (dark green) kits are generally crap, I'm sure SOL used the much more accurate Academy kit as the base
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 05:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Is this for the Tamiya or Acedamy kit?



Hi, Tim!

It's only a GUESS on my part, but I would think that this new conversion is meant for the ACADEMY kit, since the ACADEMY M3 kits are the most recent issues of both the US M3 Lee and British version, the Grant. The ACADEMY kits have all the corrections incorporated in them that were so obviously needed in the TAMIYA kits, which is why I base my thoughts on SOL probably meaning for their M3A5 Conversion to be used with the ACADEMY kits. Of course, there is also the possibility that the SOL Conversion may be meant for the TAMIYA AND ACADEMY kits, which may require some modifications to fit one or the other.

My question would be if there will be other conversion kits from SOL to match up with the plastic Lee/Grant kits, such as the ACADEMY M3 Lee/Grant, i.e, a "corrections" kit with new Turrets, etc, an M3A1, which featured the CAST Upper Hull, the M3A2 with the WELDED Upper Hull and Twin Guiberson Diesel Engines, and maybe even an M31 ARV Conversion..?

I would think that some plastic kit manufacturer would have done a more up-to-date, state-of-the-art series of M3 Lee/Grant kits by now, since the TAMIYA kit leaves A LOT to be desired, and the ACADEMY kit still has a few issues, as well...

BTW- Carlos- THANKS for posting this new conversion kit!
varanusk
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Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 06:25 PM UTC
Hi Dennis,
Credit is due to Cray Greager, from Colorado Miniatures , who kindly informed me of this conversion.

I tried also to find out for which kit is intended, without success. Their website does not state anything about it and I found photos of tan sprues from both Academy and Tamiya so... I have no idea
Cantstopbuyingkits
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Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 09:14 PM UTC
Using the Tamiya Grant [with Tasca's initial suspension set] would be a better base. Not much of a point getting the Academy kit when this conversion replaces 70% of all the detail.
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 09:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text



Sol Model has a new conversion for the M3A5 Grant, which comes with the whole upper hull and turret.

Read the Full News Story

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!


I am puzzled by this one. All of the M3A5 tanks I have seen used the US pattern "Lee" turret with the large stowage boxes on the hull rear (though all later model M3 Medium tanks were identified as Grants by the British, despite having the US type turret shell--they were only interested in identifying the engine type for supply purposes).
Cantstopbuyingkits
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Posted: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 - 10:03 PM UTC
What about this this one, Gerald?
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 12:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

What about this this one, Gerald?



The TAMIYA kits are not as accurate as you seem to think they are- They've got other warts besides the screwed-up Suspension, such as the incorrect angles and shapes of some of the armored panels of the Upper Hull. Go ahead and try to buy a TASCA Early M4 Sherman/M3 Lee Suspension for under $30.00...

The ACADEMY M3 Lee/Grant kits are more correct than the old TAMIYA kit, but I don't remember EVER stating that the ACADEMY Lee/Grant kits were the "Alpha and Omega" of ALL things. In fact, if you look back in my older posts, I've been pushing for an all-new M3 Lee/Grant for YEARS, among other things, which I won't mention because then, there will be the inevitable comments like:

"THERE GOES DENNIS, AGAIN..."

The new SOL Conversion kit is of an M3A5 Upper Hull, specifically- The Turret- ??? The -A5 had different Engine Doors & Ventilation Screens on the top rear deck of the Upper Hull, and a few other details that made it different from the M3. The Tool & Stowage Box on the Right is also shorter in height than normally seen on M3s...

That Turret looks more like the Turret that the British used on their Grants. What it's doing on an -A5 has got me thinking, too... A Test-Turret, maybe..?
ericadeane
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Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 01:00 AM UTC
Timothy: the Tamiya M3 Lee and Grants suffer from some MAJOR inaccuracies. 1) Their hulls are too wide by 3-4mm. Very noticable. 2) Their tracks are garbage. 3) their roadwheels are garbage -- six spokes when the real ones had five.

The Tamiya M3 Lees and Grants are great for newbies into the hobby, IMHO.

Dennis: the auctioned M3A5 hull with the British-style "Grant" turret did exist, albeit rare. There are photos of FM Montgomery in a command tank in Africa or Italy, which is an M3A5 plus Grant turret.
Cantstopbuyingkits
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Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 01:34 AM UTC
The only part I planning to use was the basic lower hull tab ,which appears to be generally accurate from my sources. I already said the suspension is going to be replaced, so the mistakes on the original parts don't mean anything.
Bravo1102
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Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 04:55 AM UTC
Actually the kit is mislabeled. It is really a Grant Mark II of which a large number were built and used. However, pictures of the back deck of Grants are hard to find and since the only difference is the back deck and hull rear, it's difficult to determine which is a Mark I from a Mark II.

The IWM Grant "Monty" is a mark II. There's lots of pictures as it is well restored. If you swap out the hull rear between the Tamiya M3 and Grant you get a Grant II though you'd still have to scratch built the engine deck.

I know how awful the ancient Tamiya kit was but I did one anyway as a kind of nostalgia build. I had done a Lee with as many corrections possible in the early 1990s and wanted a Grant so I bit the bullet. My extra Lee will end up Girls und Panzer so perfection will not be required.

I was able to find one picture of a Grant II in service in North Africa but again it was only one picture out of the handful where you could see the hull rear. It's a hard tank to authenticate in a picture but there are records of several hundred serving with the 8th Army. The 8th Army was short of tanks throughout 1942 so these fit the bill.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 10:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text



Sol Model has a new conversion for the M3A5 Grant, which comes with the whole upper hull and turret.

Read the Full News Story

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!


I am puzzled by this one. All of the M3A5 tanks I have seen used the US pattern "Lee" turret with the large stowage boxes on the hull rear (though all later model M3 Medium tanks were identified as Grants by the British, despite having the US type turret shell--they were only interested in identifying the engine type for supply purposes).



AGREE- The same info is contained in a book that I own, "Pictorial History of TANKS OF THE WORLD 1915-45", by Peter Chamberlain & Chris Ellis, which I don't even think is in print anymore. In this book, in the section dealing with United States Tanks, on page 174, Photo #46 clearly shows the Rear Deck of a Standard M3, with the single Engine Vent Screen on the Rear Engine Deck, which was used with the Wright-Continental R-975 Radial Engine, (gasoline/petrol); on the next page, (175), photo #55 clearly depicts the M3A5, with the "standard" M3 Lee Turret, and the "double" Engine Vent Screens which were used with the twin General Motors 6-71 Diesel Engines. M3A1 & M3A2 Lees were equipped with the Guiberson Diesel Engines, due to shortages of the R-975 gasoline/petrol Radials... (R-975 radials were used in numerous American WWII-era aircraft; building aircraft and ships were the #1 priorities, at the time...)

The SOL Upper Hull Conversion is definitely NOT the correct Upper Hull to be used for your plain "vanilla" M3, (R-975), whether you want to use it with the old TAMIYA "DOG", or the vastly superior, but still incorrect in a few ways, ACADEMY M3 Lee/Grant kits... Some of you will no doubt contest my opinions of the ACADEMY M3s, but I really don't give a flying leap through a rolling doughnut- Those ACADEMY M3s are not quite what the doctor ordered. There ARE some issues with those kits, notably their US-style Turrets and the British-style Turrets as well.

The M3-series Medium tanks were manufactured at three different plants; the Rock Island Arsenal, the Detroit Tank Arsenal, and at the American Locomotive Company (ALCO), in Schenectady, New York; all three arsenals produced Turrets which varied in details and shapes, although these differences would not have been apparent to the casual observer...

The British-style Turret was a different entity altogether, and it was manufactured in the US, to British specs...

Hope the above has helped, even if it's just a little...
Bravo1102
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Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 11:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text



Sol Model has a new conversion for the M3A5 Grant, which comes with the whole upper hull and turret.

Read the Full News Story

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!


I am puzzled by this one. All of the M3A5 tanks I have seen used the US pattern "Lee" turret with the large stowage boxes on the hull rear (though all later model M3 Medium tanks were identified as Grants by the British, despite having the US type turret shell--they were only interested in identifying the engine type for supply purposes).



AGREE- The same info is contained in a book that I own, "Pictorial History of TANKS OF THE WORLD 1915-45", by Peter Chamberlain & Chris Ellis, which I don't even think is in print anymore. In this book, in the section dealing with United States Tanks, on page 174, Photo #46 clearly shows the Rear Deck of a Standard M3, with the single Engine Vent Screen on the Rear Engine Deck, which was used with the Wright-Continental R-975 Radial Engine, (gasoline/petrol); on the next page, (175), photo #55 clearly depicts the M3A5, with the "standard" M3 Lee Turret, and the "double" Engine Vent Screens which were used with the twin General Motors 6-71 Diesel Engines. M3A1 & M3A2 Lees were equipped with the Guiberson Diesel Engines, due to shortages of the R-975 gasoline/petrol Radials... (R-975 radials were used in numerous American WWII-era aircraft; building aircraft and ships were the #1 priorities, at the time...)

The SOL Upper Hull Conversion is definitely NOT the correct Upper Hull to be used for your plain "vanilla" M3, (R-975), whether you want to use it with the old TAMIYA "DOG", or the vastly superior, but still incorrect in a few ways, ACADEMY M3 Lee/Grant kits... Some of you will no doubt contest my opinions of the ACADEMY M3s, but I really don't give a flying leap through a rolling doughnut- Those ACADEMY M3s are not quite what the doctor ordered. There ARE some issues with those kits, notably their US-style Turrets and the British-style Turrets as well.

The M3-series Medium tanks were manufactured at three different plants; the Rock Island Arsenal, the Detroit Tank Arsenal, and at the American Locomotive Company (ALCO), in Schenectady, New York; all three arsenals produced Turrets which varied in details and shapes, although these differences would not have been apparent to the casual observer...

The British-style Turret was a different entity altogether, and it was manufactured in the US, to British specs...

Hope the above has helped, even if it's just a little...



That's because it is a Grant Mark II as is currently displayed at the IWM. I explained all this already.

It's in the Polish M3 Lee/Grant book as well as records of tanks sent to North Africa.

For a long time it was assumed that Grant Mark II were diesel Lees when in fact they were diesel M3 with the Grant turret as the vehicle at the IWM. The only difference between a Grant and a Lee was the turret, radio installation, rear storage boxes and driver's periscope. All things easily done after the tank was finished at the factory.

M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 12:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text



Sol Model has a new conversion for the M3A5 Grant, which comes with the whole upper hull and turret.

Read the Full News Story

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!


I am puzzled by this one. All of the M3A5 tanks I have seen used the US pattern "Lee" turret with the large stowage boxes on the hull rear (though all later model M3 Medium tanks were identified as Grants by the British, despite having the US type turret shell--they were only interested in identifying the engine type for supply purposes).



AGREE- The same info is contained in a book that I own, "Pictorial History of TANKS OF THE WORLD 1915-45", by Peter Chamberlain & Chris Ellis, which I don't even think is in print anymore. In this book, in the section dealing with United States Tanks, on page 174, Photo #46 clearly shows the Rear Deck of a Standard M3, with the single Engine Vent Screen on the Rear Engine Deck, which was used with the Wright-Continental R-975 Radial Engine, (gasoline/petrol); on the next page, (175), photo #55 clearly depicts the M3A5, with the "standard" M3 Lee Turret, and the "double" Engine Vent Screens which were used with the twin General Motors 6-71 Diesel Engines. M3A1 & M3A2 Lees were equipped with the Guiberson Diesel Engines, due to shortages of the R-975 gasoline/petrol Radials... (R-975 radials were used in numerous American WWII-era aircraft; building aircraft and ships were the #1 priorities, at the time...)

The SOL Upper Hull Conversion is definitely NOT the correct Upper Hull to be used for your plain "vanilla" M3, (R-975), whether you want to use it with the old TAMIYA "DOG", or the vastly superior, but still incorrect in a few ways, ACADEMY M3 Lee/Grant kits... Some of you will no doubt contest my opinions of the ACADEMY M3s, but I really don't give a flying leap through a rolling doughnut- Those ACADEMY M3s are not quite what the doctor ordered. There ARE some issues with those kits, notably their US-style Turrets and the British-style Turrets as well.

The M3-series Medium tanks were manufactured at three different plants; the Rock Island Arsenal, the Detroit Tank Arsenal, and at the American Locomotive Company (ALCO), in Schenectady, New York; all three arsenals produced Turrets which varied in details and shapes, although these differences would not have been apparent to the casual observer...

The British-style Turret was a different entity altogether, and it was manufactured in the US, to British specs...

Hope the above has helped, even if it's just a little...



That's because it is a Grant Mark II as is currently displayed at the IWM. I explained all this already.

It's in the Polish M3 Lee/Grant book as well as records of tanks sent to North Africa.

For a long time it was assumed that Grant Mark II were diesel Lees when in fact they were diesel M3 with the Grant turret as the vehicle at the IWM. The only difference between a Grant and a Lee was the turret, radio installation, rear storage boxes and driver's periscope. All things easily done after the tank was finished at the factory.




I was just about to give you credit for bringing up the "Grant II", but you beat me to it with your last post. No harm done, I was mainly concerned in explaining the "whys and wherefores" of the main differences between the M3 and M3A5. Your information sheds a lot of light in explaining the British-style Turret on a mis-labled "M3A5". As I said earlier, that British-style Turret on an "M3A5" got me thinking of what the explanation for that might have been. You cleared up the "mystery", and quite admirably, I might add...

Thank You, Steve!
Bravo1102
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Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 01:59 PM UTC
By the way over in another thread about M3 Lee in the ETO, Frenchy put up pictures of the Grant command tank used in Italy by the 6th.South African division.

There is a clear rear view with the long hull rear plate and exhaust deflector of a diesel engine M3. It is a Grant Mark II. What's more it had late heavy duty bogies retro fitted.

So you could use the spare M4 suspension in the Academy kit rather than the M3 suspension.
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 03:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Using the Tamiya Grant [with Tasca's initial suspension set] would be a better base. Not much of a point getting the Academy kit when this conversion replaces 70% of all the detail.



Except for the fact that the other 30% of the detail from the Tamiya kit probably doesn't fit the conversion and as mentioned, both upper and lower hulls are too wide.

If you have to get a donor kit you need to consider the cost of Tamiya + Tasca vs. the Academy kit with the corrected suspension.

KL
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Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 03:27 PM UTC
I am puzzled by this one. All of the M3A5 tanks I have seen used the US pattern "Lee" turret with the large stowage boxes on the hull rear . . .[/quote]

The breakdown of Grant production models was determined by an analysis of production records. Baldwin Locomotive built 380 or 381 M3A5 Grants. (There is a discrepancy of one tank among the various records.)

KL
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 04:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I am puzzled by this one. All of the M3A5 tanks I have seen used the US pattern "Lee" turret with the large stowage boxes on the hull rear . . .



The breakdown of Grant production models was determined by an analysis of production records. Baldwin Locomotive built 380 or 381 M3A5 Grants. (There is a discrepancy of one tank among the various records.)

KL [/quote]

You're RIGHT! Forgot about the Baldwin Locomotive Company when I was blathering about M3s and the other types! Thanks for the "heads-up" regarding Baldwin- And me being a Steam Locomotive NUT, to boot! (Personally, I prefer the ALCO-built "race-horse-look" of New York Central's Steam Locomotives over the Baldwins, Limas, and the Pennsy's Altoona Shops!)

Shameful performance, Dennis...

Sorry, been up all night, no sleep, brain is not engaged...

As far as discrepancies in production numbers go, isn't that almost a "given" with just about anything, even AFTER the advent of the "modern super-computers" during the 1960s..?

Even after all of the palaver that has been going on in this thread, (of which I am one of the prime offenders), I have to admit that I'm VERY TEMPTED to buy one of these conversions! I've got several different British camo schemes dancing around in my fevered imagination... But before I buy one of these, I want to find out how accurate this conversion really is...
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 05:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

By the way over in another thread about M3 Lee in the ETO, Frenchy put up pictures of the Grant command tank used in Italy by the 6th.South African division.

There is a clear rear view with the long hull rear plate and exhaust deflector of a diesel engine M3. It is a Grant Mark II. What's more it had late heavy duty bogies retro fitted.

So you could use the spare M4 suspension in the Academy kit rather than the M3 suspension.



YUP!!! That's an interesting variation on a theme, isn't it?
C_JACQUEMONT
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Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 06:21 PM UTC
This looks like the old Adler set. Apparently Sol Model are re-issuing many Adler conversions, they probably bought the masters when Adler went out of business.
Cantstopbuyingkits
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Posted: Thursday, October 13, 2016 - 07:14 PM UTC
Looks like it...



ALBOWIE
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Posted: Friday, October 14, 2016 - 02:46 AM UTC
Add a Dozer and Grenade nets to this and you would have one of the (Only) three Australian Grant II's to serve in Action during the Invasion of the Dutch East Indies in 45 alongside Matildas. A lot of these were in use by the Australians during WW2 but only three M3 mediums ever saw action with them.
Al
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Saturday, October 15, 2016 - 12:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Add a Dozer and Grenade nets to this and you would have one of the (Only) three Australian Grant II's to serve in Action during the Invasion of the Dutch East Indies in 45 alongside Matildas. A lot of these were in use by the Australians during WW2 but only three M3 mediums ever saw action with them.
Al



SOLD!!! I NEED a WWII Australian Tank in my collection! Also thinking of getting a resin Sentinel that I saw on ebay- Yeah, I realize that the Sentinels I, II, and III were only used for training, but I want one anyway!!!
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