Hi guys. So I've seen many videos on youtube of guys using Vallejo acrylics and they go on simply beautifully. In one video tutorial on figure painting the guy had primed his figure black and he was blocking in the face with Vallejo flesh tones and they went on smoothly and covered completely needing no second coat.
If I try to paint with them I just can't get the same coverage. I've tried thinning them with bottled water and using them neat and I get the same result; they won't cover and I get brush marks.
I was wondering if ambient temperature or humidity could effect them. Its summer in New Zealand at the moment.
I'd appreciate any advice.
Yuletide felicitations to you and your loved ones.
Edit: I forgot to mention I first prime with Tamiya or Gunze acrylic. I'm not trying to paint onto bare styrene.
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Tips for acrylic hand painting please.
Phil5000
Joined: May 13, 2013
KitMaker: 165 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 - 01:39 AM UTC
Thudius
Joined: October 22, 2012
KitMaker: 1,194 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 - 01:58 AM UTC
Felicitous tidings to you as well. Humidity shouldn't be a problem for brush painting. If you're sure the paint isn't too thin, two things come to mind: either the brush you're using is too small, meaning you aren't carrying enough paint for good coverage in one pass, or your stroke is too fast meaning the paint isn't flowing on properly. Maybe a combination of both. I'd prime a sheet of plastic and practice your brushwork. There is a knack in getting the feel for different applications and also thinning ratios. Writing out your name is a fun exercise.
Kimmo
Kimmo
DaGreatQueeg
Joined: August 01, 2005
KitMaker: 1,049 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 - 02:43 AM UTC
Hey Phil,
I'm not primarily a figure painter although I have done a few. Couple of things I find, first I don't black prime, never really understood that process, for figures. It's either white or better yet, grey. And I would suggest a couple coats of thin acrylic is always better than one thick one, I haven't found a "one pass" flesh and use both GWs and Vallejos on figures. Humbrol enamel flesh is the closet I've found to a one pass cover.
Also in the heat a wet pallet might help too.
cheers and have a great xmas
Brent
I'm not primarily a figure painter although I have done a few. Couple of things I find, first I don't black prime, never really understood that process, for figures. It's either white or better yet, grey. And I would suggest a couple coats of thin acrylic is always better than one thick one, I haven't found a "one pass" flesh and use both GWs and Vallejos on figures. Humbrol enamel flesh is the closet I've found to a one pass cover.
Also in the heat a wet pallet might help too.
cheers and have a great xmas
Brent
justsendit
Joined: February 24, 2014
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 - 02:59 AM UTC
Hi Phil,
Which Vallejo colors are you using? There is a notable difference between Vallejo Model Color (70.xxx) and Model Air (71.xxx).
Also, Vallejo Primers (73.xxx) work really well.
And I concur with the use of a wet palette. Even work lights will suck the moisture right out of paints. 🔆
—mike
[edit] Oops! ... I just noticed that you did, in fact say "flesh tones." I decided to leave my original comment in tact since it might be useful to others.
Which Vallejo colors are you using? There is a notable difference between Vallejo Model Color (70.xxx) and Model Air (71.xxx).
Also, Vallejo Primers (73.xxx) work really well.
And I concur with the use of a wet palette. Even work lights will suck the moisture right out of paints. 🔆
—mike
[edit] Oops! ... I just noticed that you did, in fact say "flesh tones." I decided to leave my original comment in tact since it might be useful to others.
Vicious
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 - 03:25 AM UTC
The reasons may be various, moist and heat can 'be one, thinning but also the brushes affects the quality, but your sentence makes me doubtful "The first raw with Tamiya or Gunze acrylic" what do you mean by that? .... normal Color or propper primer, because there is a difference, I have had similar problems using the "primer Tamiya super fine", for mé too fine to work with a brush and painting did not grip well, try the Gray normal Tamiya primer not "super fine "I never had any problems of coverage with that.
urumomo
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
Armorama: 667 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 18, 2016 - 08:07 PM UTC
I'll fix your problem right away ,
Don't use water as a thinner - get a bottle of Vallejo's Thinner Medium .
Hurry ,
die and go to Heaven straight-away !
This stuff :https://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories/Paint_and_Construction/thinner-medium-60ml/VLJ00073524/product.php?s=3&t=1&u=3&pg=1&ppp=48&sb=stocknumber&so=a&man=VLJ
.. HUGE difference !!
Don't use water as a thinner - get a bottle of Vallejo's Thinner Medium .
Hurry ,
die and go to Heaven straight-away !
This stuff :https://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories/Paint_and_Construction/thinner-medium-60ml/VLJ00073524/product.php?s=3&t=1&u=3&pg=1&ppp=48&sb=stocknumber&so=a&man=VLJ
.. HUGE difference !!
fhvn4d
#159
Joined: April 07, 2008
KitMaker: 803 posts
Armorama: 564 posts
Posted: Monday, December 19, 2016 - 05:57 AM UTC
I have to re-iterate everything the guys before have said.. dont give up on Vallajos paint..... I had similar issues when I started using them, there is a bit of a " mentality change" that comes from working with Vallajos..... but once you find the right groove, you are going to love them!!!! Also.... ditch the water... as stated go with vallajos thinner.... and one last thing I havent seen.... PRIMER is KEY!!!! one very strong thing that was suggested to me that I have found to cure alot of my problems is to put a good primer on and LET IT DRY....one of the things about crylics is that a not quite dry primer can pull moisture out of the paints on top of it ..... same thing with layering of vallajos... but all you need to put a good dry on them is a hair dryer!!!! the model air line is NOT designed to be used with a brush and its important that you have the model color lines ( the white caps). with the model color as all paints, ensure a good mix and a dampened brush will help.....
again dont give up........ you will come to love them !!
again dont give up........ you will come to love them !!
Phil5000
Joined: May 13, 2013
KitMaker: 165 posts
Armorama: 135 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2017 - 05:03 PM UTC
Thanks guys. I get the feeling you're supposed to use them quite thick. I tried thinning them with thinner medium and it doesn't thin them at all, it seems. Not in making them less thick anyway. What exactly does it do?
urumomo
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
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Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2017 - 07:00 PM UTC
Uh ?
The thinner didn't thin them
Which thinner are you using and at what ratio ?
The thinner didn't thin them
Which thinner are you using and at what ratio ?
Vicious
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 01:44 AM UTC
mmmmmm.....the only way i know were a thinner dont thin is when the thinner is the wrong one and everything turn to jelly
when you talk about thinner medium is this?...
http://www.bnamodelworld.com/vallejo-av-70524-thinner-medium-for-all-paints-17ml
when you talk about thinner medium is this?...
http://www.bnamodelworld.com/vallejo-av-70524-thinner-medium-for-all-paints-17ml
fhvn4d
#159
Joined: April 07, 2008
KitMaker: 803 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 02:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks guys. I get the feeling you're supposed to use them quite thick. I tried thinning them with thinner medium and it doesn't thin them at all, it seems. Not in making them less thick anyway. What exactly does it do?
it should have thinned them.. is the bottle you got the milky white stuff or clear like water stuff?? either way... you also should be doing better than 25/75 thinner to paint... i find almost 50 50 is totally doable.
urumomo
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 02:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
... you also should be doing better than 25/75 thinner to paint... i find almost 50 50 is totally doable.
Yep , usually 1:1 or even 2:1 , thinner to paint , with a lot of the Vallejo Model Color -- some of those are super thick .
Phil5000
Joined: May 13, 2013
KitMaker: 165 posts
Armorama: 135 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 04:17 PM UTC
Quoted Text
mmmmmm.....the only way i know were a thinner dont thin is when the thinner is the wrong one and everything turn to jelly
when you talk about thinner medium is this?...
http://www.bnamodelworld.com/vallejo-av-70524-thinner-medium-for-all-paints-17ml
Yes that's it. It doesn't change the actual consistency. If I use Vallejo airbrush thinner or water, that actually thins it.
DKdent
Joined: November 27, 2005
KitMaker: 182 posts
Armorama: 180 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 07:07 PM UTC
Hello,
I have achieved the best results using Vallejos thinned with tap water and with some Tamiya X-21 Flat base mixed in. You can thin them pretty hard, you will get thin coats which will dry in 20 seconds when using a hairdryer or in 5 minutes without one and the result is totally and completely matt, making painting much easier as you can see the contours much better.
I do not see a point in using expensive thinners if water works aswell. The flat base is a real gift.
Best regards
Dennis
I have achieved the best results using Vallejos thinned with tap water and with some Tamiya X-21 Flat base mixed in. You can thin them pretty hard, you will get thin coats which will dry in 20 seconds when using a hairdryer or in 5 minutes without one and the result is totally and completely matt, making painting much easier as you can see the contours much better.
I do not see a point in using expensive thinners if water works aswell. The flat base is a real gift.
Best regards
Dennis
urumomo
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 07:16 PM UTC
IDK , guys Water-only works nowhere near what the NOT expensive thinner does .
--Dennis , you're diluting it with water then adding back more acrylic resin ..?
You're on your own I guess -
Happy New Year !
iakarch
Joined: May 19, 2007
KitMaker: 459 posts
Armorama: 421 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 07:42 PM UTC
Phil,
I've been painting figures with Vallejo Model Color for about 15 years, Have found that different colors act differently, some cover better than others depending on what the pigment is. Its all about technique, water should be all you need to thin the paint, if you use bottled water use distilled water not just bottled water (which is just filtered water). When painting a face first apply you base color which should not be thinned any more than to make the paint cover, several thin coats are better than one thick. next you can paint in the eyes, then the shadows and highlights. the shadows and highlights should be very thin almost a glaze. the key is before the glaze drys using only water you blend or feather the edge of the glaze to the color under it. doing this you work in very thin layers building up the shadows and highlights. I use the face as an example, but this applies to all areas of a figure. a good figure has no areas of single color without shading and highlight. Hope this can be some help to you.
I've been painting figures with Vallejo Model Color for about 15 years, Have found that different colors act differently, some cover better than others depending on what the pigment is. Its all about technique, water should be all you need to thin the paint, if you use bottled water use distilled water not just bottled water (which is just filtered water). When painting a face first apply you base color which should not be thinned any more than to make the paint cover, several thin coats are better than one thick. next you can paint in the eyes, then the shadows and highlights. the shadows and highlights should be very thin almost a glaze. the key is before the glaze drys using only water you blend or feather the edge of the glaze to the color under it. doing this you work in very thin layers building up the shadows and highlights. I use the face as an example, but this applies to all areas of a figure. a good figure has no areas of single color without shading and highlight. Hope this can be some help to you.
iakarch
Joined: May 19, 2007
KitMaker: 459 posts
Armorama: 421 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 07:46 PM UTC
DKdent
Joined: November 27, 2005
KitMaker: 182 posts
Armorama: 180 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 07:54 PM UTC
Quoted Text
--Dennis , you're diluting it with water then adding back more acrylic resin ..?
My fault: I of course meant Tamiya X-21 Flat base. It is actually a matt medium and when painting figures the amount used is somewhere in the scale of what sticks to the tip of a toothpick. Anyway: thanks for pointing out. Tamiya X-21 Flat base is the weapon of choice.
Artist like Danilo Cartacci use plain tap water and, regarding to his work, I would say that water indeed does come somewhere into higher spheres; judging by the results he achieves.
I do not have a dog in this fight. I do not care what others do. But flat base in combination with water and a high degree of thinning was for me the "breakthrough" when dealing with Vallejos. Just another hint someone could follow. Everybody has to find his own way and if you found something that works: excellent. But it is simply not true that you need Brand thinner to get good results. If some of the world`s best figure painter use the "tap water-system", it can`t be sooo bad.
The hint with the flat base will, depending on the original posters desicions, work with the Vallejo thinner aswell, I guess. But if you try, use the Tamiya one; it is more effective than Vallejos.
Best Regards
Dennis
urumomo
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
Armorama: 667 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 08:06 PM UTC
" matt medium " is acrylic resin ,
But I agree completely that each person will find what works for them -
I use different techniques with different colors of the Model Color line since they have different consistencies -- like others have said .
Keep experimenting Phil !
Ciao
But I agree completely that each person will find what works for them -
I use different techniques with different colors of the Model Color line since they have different consistencies -- like others have said .
Keep experimenting Phil !
Ciao
AgentG
Joined: December 21, 2008
KitMaker: 1,109 posts
Armorama: 1,095 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 09:20 PM UTC
I'm confused.
Are you using Tamiya X 21 with Vallejo? If so there's your problem. The two, Tamiya and Vallejo, are not compatible being completely different in formulation.
G
Are you using Tamiya X 21 with Vallejo? If so there's your problem. The two, Tamiya and Vallejo, are not compatible being completely different in formulation.
G
DKdent
Joined: November 27, 2005
KitMaker: 182 posts
Armorama: 180 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 09:32 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm confused.
Are you using Tamiya X 21 with Vallejo? If so there's your problem. The two, Tamiya and Vallejo, are not compatible being completely different in formulation.
G
Hello,
the original poster did not use this combination (at least he did not say so). I did and it works quite wonderful and there is not the slightest problem using these two products together (at least if we talk about Tamiya X-21 Flat Base and Vallejo Model Colors). I can`t say if Flat base is not usable with other Vallejo products (e.g. thinners or effect colors). But Vallejo Model Color and X-21 mix absolute perfectly. Fot this combination your statement is wrong.
Best Regards
Dennis
DKdent
Joined: November 27, 2005
KitMaker: 182 posts
Armorama: 180 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 09:34 PM UTC
Quoted Text
" matt medium " is acrylic resin ,
Ciao
Hello,
as I stated above: my fault. Absentminded, typo, whatever. Sorry for the confusion. I corrected the posts to "Tamiya X-21 Flat Base"
Best Regards.
Dennis
urumomo
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
Armorama: 667 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 09:50 PM UTC
The X21 flattening agent is just silica - amorphous silica dioxide - maybe with acrylic resin ?
you could technically add that to any water-base paint w/o issue .
Me guess -- I don't find MSDS
you could technically add that to any water-base paint w/o issue .
Me guess -- I don't find MSDS
ivanhoe6
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 09:50 PM UTC
This is REALLY a good subject for me ( and others). I am thinking about switching over from Humbrol Enamels to Vallejo acrylics for figure painting. Has anybody ever used the Vallejo face painting set of 8 colors, #70119 ? Or, is this overkill and could I get by with say 4 or 5 colors? If so, what would you recommend to get started with?
Thanks to everybody who contributed ! Lots of good info here!
Best wishes to everybody in 2017 !
Tom
Thanks to everybody who contributed ! Lots of good info here!
Best wishes to everybody in 2017 !
Tom
iakarch
Joined: May 19, 2007
KitMaker: 459 posts
Armorama: 421 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 10:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
This is REALLY a good subject for me ( and others). I am thinking about switching over from Humbrol Enamels to Vallejo acrylics for figure painting. Has anybody ever used the Vallejo face painting set of 8 colors, #70119 ? Or, is this overkill and could I get by with say 4 or 5 colors? If so, what would you recommend to get started with?
Thanks to everybody who contributed ! Lots of good info here!
Best wishes to everybody in 2017 !
Tom
Yes the face set is good and also Andrea Miniatures makes a very good set. The Andrea sets have base colors and first and second highlight and shadow and they have a set for just about every color. red, blue yellow etc. so I would look at the Andrea sets first.
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