Dioramas
Do you love dioramas & vignettes? We sure do.
Do you love dioramas & vignettes? We sure do.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Mario Matijasic
Crossing a danger point
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Friday, December 30, 2016 - 07:16 PM UTC
I am gathering assets and other things for an upcoming project concerning troops crossing a danger point. I am pretty sure it will be in Normandy and probably showing troops from various units in the HJ as they try to escape the pocket around St Lambert/Trun on the eastern side of the Falaise pocket.
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Friday, December 30, 2016 - 07:22 PM UTC
This how it works according to some of the small unit tactics I learned a long time ago.
The unit moves up to the danger area to be crossed and near side security( A ) is placed under control of the second in command. Then the far side security is sent across ( B ) and is under control of the chief. When all is secure,the unit passes over one by one. On the far side they set up a hasty perimeter until all are across and then the (A) security joins them and all move out together.
Now,the challenge is trying to show the gist of all this in a small dio with the minimum figures.
I know I have several dios going simultaneously but don't we all have several projects going at the same time ?
J
The unit moves up to the danger area to be crossed and near side security( A ) is placed under control of the second in command. Then the far side security is sent across ( B ) and is under control of the chief. When all is secure,the unit passes over one by one. On the far side they set up a hasty perimeter until all are across and then the (A) security joins them and all move out together.
Now,the challenge is trying to show the gist of all this in a small dio with the minimum figures.
I know I have several dios going simultaneously but don't we all have several projects going at the same time ?
J
KevPak
Joined: June 04, 2014
KitMaker: 137 posts
Armorama: 128 posts
Posted: Friday, December 30, 2016 - 08:13 PM UTC
Hey JR!
Good to hear you're off on a different project - although I'm looking forward eagerly to the conclusion of your Elbe retreat dio.
So what I'm envisioning for your newest proposal (and I don't know if this will help at all - just kind of freely associating here...) is that the danger point is a short area of exposed dirt road flanked by ruts on either side where the infantry have some cover, along with a few trees/bushes. Perhaps a stone wall on one side or the other or a small (like a jeep) destroyed or abandoned vehicle in the middle of the road. Could be the beginning of a very interesting dio...
Good to hear you're off on a different project - although I'm looking forward eagerly to the conclusion of your Elbe retreat dio.
So what I'm envisioning for your newest proposal (and I don't know if this will help at all - just kind of freely associating here...) is that the danger point is a short area of exposed dirt road flanked by ruts on either side where the infantry have some cover, along with a few trees/bushes. Perhaps a stone wall on one side or the other or a small (like a jeep) destroyed or abandoned vehicle in the middle of the road. Could be the beginning of a very interesting dio...
kurnuy
Joined: August 22, 2009
KitMaker: 1,491 posts
Armorama: 997 posts
Posted: Friday, December 30, 2016 - 08:24 PM UTC
Hi Jerry ,
keep them coming ...
Kurt
keep them coming ...
Kurt
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Friday, December 30, 2016 - 08:26 PM UTC
Yep,I am still "on" the Elbe dio and was painting last night for the first time in a while due to the big holiday.
Yes,you have surmised th general scene quite well. No vehicles though,as they take me too long lately because I get bogged down in research and always end up doing what amounts to a doctoral thesis! LoL
For this crossing to make sense it would be a narrow dirt road with good concealment on both sides otherwise it would just be a movement formation. I may plop a simple shed in there to save time though. It will take some noggin power at this point to keep this from becoming the ever-expanding deal the Elbe thing has become !
Good points there buddy. I appreciate the comments.
J
Yes,you have surmised th general scene quite well. No vehicles though,as they take me too long lately because I get bogged down in research and always end up doing what amounts to a doctoral thesis! LoL
For this crossing to make sense it would be a narrow dirt road with good concealment on both sides otherwise it would just be a movement formation. I may plop a simple shed in there to save time though. It will take some noggin power at this point to keep this from becoming the ever-expanding deal the Elbe thing has become !
Good points there buddy. I appreciate the comments.
J
pnance26
Joined: January 22, 2016
KitMaker: 766 posts
Armorama: 518 posts
Posted: Friday, December 30, 2016 - 09:00 PM UTC
Another from the mind of Minol... wait, that's the camera!
Great concept, JR! Like to see another project from you...
Strictly infantry on this one? No armor?
As for me, I am at worse than a standstill because of the holidays. I have to spend my next seven cutting firewood. And then stacking etc... I know, I know.
But I did get a paint booth for Christmas! Just need to get my space cleared out... but first need to get out of our storage space completely! Oh well, life goes on! Maybe February...
Keep 'em coming!
Great concept, JR! Like to see another project from you...
Strictly infantry on this one? No armor?
As for me, I am at worse than a standstill because of the holidays. I have to spend my next seven cutting firewood. And then stacking etc... I know, I know.
But I did get a paint booth for Christmas! Just need to get my space cleared out... but first need to get out of our storage space completely! Oh well, life goes on! Maybe February...
Keep 'em coming!
ahandykindaguy
Joined: August 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,295 posts
Armorama: 1,191 posts
Posted: Friday, December 30, 2016 - 11:38 PM UTC
The foreman of the peanut gallery has pushed the following this thread button, and awaits his next fix with baited breath and eager anticipation good sir! 
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 31, 2016 - 01:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for checking in buddy ! Happy New Year to you and yours and don't worry. The model stuff will all be there when you get back to it !Another from the mind of Minol... wait, that's the camera!
Great concept, JR! Like to see another project from you...
Strictly infantry on this one? No armor?
As for me, I am at worse than a standstill because of the holidays. I have to spend my next seven cutting firewood. And then stacking etc... I know, I know.
But I did get a paint booth for Christmas! Just need to get my space cleared out... but first need to get out of our storage space completely! Oh well, life goes on! Maybe February...
Keep 'em coming!
J
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 31, 2016 - 01:23 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The foreman of the peanut gallery has pushed the following this thread button, and awaits his next fix with baited breath and eager anticipation good sir!
Thanks my good friend. I hope the breath isn't baited with anchovies !
J
ahandykindaguy
Joined: August 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,295 posts
Armorama: 1,191 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 31, 2016 - 01:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThe foreman of the peanut gallery has pushed the following this thread button, and awaits his next fix with baited breath and eager anticipation good sir!
Thanks my good friend. I hope the breath isn't baited with anchovies !
J
Uugggghhhh....pffpft, ppffttt...anchovies!
Never acquired the taste of the little suckers...
Happy New Year Jerry. May He bless and keep you this coming year!
BUTA46
Joined: May 05, 2015
KitMaker: 117 posts
Armorama: 113 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 31, 2016 - 04:49 PM UTC
Something to create or heighten the sense of danger? Some sign of the enemy? The crossing interrupted by....?? Something funny??
You nailed it with getting bogged down in detail and research. Unfortunately, that part can still be fun too ....
You nailed it with getting bogged down in detail and research. Unfortunately, that part can still be fun too ....
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 31, 2016 - 11:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Something to create or heighten the sense of danger? Some sign of the enemy? The crossing interrupted by....?? Something funny??
You nailed it with getting bogged down in detail and research. Unfortunately, that part can still be fun too ....
You have a good idea there and I will have the threat there. It will be implied though.
J
parrot
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 1,607 posts
Armorama: 1,581 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 31, 2016 - 11:56 PM UTC
Jerry,
Do ever relax a little?Just build a kit?
Still watching the Elbe.
Excellent work and very interested in the new project.
Tom 
Do ever relax a little?Just build a kit?
Still watching the Elbe.
Excellent work and very interested in the new project.
Tom
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2017 - 01:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Jerry,
Do ever relax a little?Just build a kit?
Still watching the Elbe.
Excellent work and very interested in the new project.
Tom
Thanks Tom,
I had a Bn Cmdr once that told up,the thing about paras is that even when they have nothing to do they stand around a look nervous.
I actually find it useful to build some small projects while doing a large one. This gives me the sense of completion that comes with finishing a small vignette so I don't loose interest in the large time consuming dio.
J
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
Armorama: 1,239 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2017 - 03:49 AM UTC
HI Jerry,
Happy New Year. May 2017 be a prosperous year!
So, tactics do differ per army.
Our tactic was to form a line and jump over as a whole, thus creating a single moment of surprise. The explanation was that while doing so the enemy was surprised only once and could not set up a duck hunt......
Any way, what ever reason, we are all waiting for your next project: don't make us wait too long!
(If I was only able to transfer my photos from an IPad to this forum I could show you my progress on the Russian artillery horses.....)
Happy New Year. May 2017 be a prosperous year!
So, tactics do differ per army.
Our tactic was to form a line and jump over as a whole, thus creating a single moment of surprise. The explanation was that while doing so the enemy was surprised only once and could not set up a duck hunt......
Any way, what ever reason, we are all waiting for your next project: don't make us wait too long!
(If I was only able to transfer my photos from an IPad to this forum I could show you my progress on the Russian artillery horses.....)
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2017 - 05:18 AM UTC
Quoted Text
HI Jerry,
Happy New Year. May 2017 be a prosperous year!
So, tactics do differ per army.
Our tactic was to form a line and jump over as a whole, thus creating a single moment of surprise. The explanation was that while doing so the enemy was surprised only once and could not set up a duck hunt......
Any way, what ever reason, we are all waiting for your next project: don't make us wait too long!
(If I was only able to transfer my photos from an IPad to this forum I could show you my progress on the Russian artillery horses.....)
We had that tactic as well. That was for a time when speed was important. This tactic here is for stealth and security. I am thinking of Falaise,when the escape routes were very small and narrow.
I also have another horse project coming up. Only it will be the American Civil War.
J
ahandykindaguy
Joined: August 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,295 posts
Armorama: 1,191 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2017 - 06:22 AM UTC
(If I was only able to transfer my photos from an IPad to this forum I could show you my progress on the Russian artillery horses.....)[/quote]
Paul, I use Photobucket for hosting my photos, and while my iPad says that Photobucket may cause my system to run slower, I am still able to upload to Photobucket directly from my iPad.
I can then use any of my internet connected devises to open armora up, and post to....
Perhaps you are simply too busy??
Paul, I use Photobucket for hosting my photos, and while my iPad says that Photobucket may cause my system to run slower, I am still able to upload to Photobucket directly from my iPad.
I can then use any of my internet connected devises to open armora up, and post to....
Perhaps you are simply too busy??
Paulinsibculo
Joined: July 01, 2010
KitMaker: 1,322 posts
Armorama: 1,239 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 01, 2017 - 10:45 PM UTC
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the advice. I will give it a try and show my horse projects.
And 'yes' I am not too busy but according to my daughters a dinosaur in the IT world (and I am only 60!!!!).....
Thanks for the advice. I will give it a try and show my horse projects.
And 'yes' I am not too busy but according to my daughters a dinosaur in the IT world (and I am only 60!!!!).....
ahandykindaguy
Joined: August 20, 2008
KitMaker: 1,295 posts
Armorama: 1,191 posts
Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 02:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the advice. I will give it a try and show my horse projects.
And 'yes' I am not too busy but according to my daughters a dinosaur in the IT world (and I am only 60!!!!).....
Your welcome Paul, and I know the feelings.... I'm in my 54th orbit around the big bright yellow light in the sky, and my 6 year old girl can operate my iPad almost as well as I can!
Kit maker, this forum's webhost also has free space for hosting your pictures. I've never used it, but a lot of people do, so maybe it's another option.
Looking forward to seeing them when you get around to it. Good luck.
jimb
Joined: August 25, 2006
KitMaker: 2,539 posts
Armorama: 238 posts
Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 08:22 AM UTC
While I was at the US Army Officer Candidate School, we learned a quick method of crossing a danger point from the Rangers called "Scroll the Road". It derives its name from the Ranger Unit's shoulder sleeve insignia (SSI) which are scrolls. Anyway, it goes something like this:
Say you are going to cross a East-West road. The fist soldier approaches the road, and if it is determined if it safe at that time finds a concealed position and places his LEFT side toward the road so he & his weapon are facing East down the road. A second solder relieves the first one taking up the same position, while the first soldier sprints across the road to a concealed position again placing his LEFT shoulder toward the road so he & his weapon are no facing West. So you now have one solder on the near side facing East down the road & one solder on the far side facing West down the road. The squad keeps this up until the entire unit is across the road.
This is a good small unit tactic, but doesn't work very well in units larger that a platoon. Maybe this will help, maybe it won't.
Jim
Say you are going to cross a East-West road. The fist soldier approaches the road, and if it is determined if it safe at that time finds a concealed position and places his LEFT side toward the road so he & his weapon are facing East down the road. A second solder relieves the first one taking up the same position, while the first soldier sprints across the road to a concealed position again placing his LEFT shoulder toward the road so he & his weapon are no facing West. So you now have one solder on the near side facing East down the road & one solder on the far side facing West down the road. The squad keeps this up until the entire unit is across the road.
This is a good small unit tactic, but doesn't work very well in units larger that a platoon. Maybe this will help, maybe it won't.
Jim
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 07:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
While I was at the US Army Officer Candidate School, we learned a quick method of crossing a danger point from the Rangers called "Scroll the Road". It derives its name from the Ranger Unit's shoulder sleeve insignia (SSI) which are scrolls. Anyway, it goes something like this:
Say you are going to cross a East-West road. The fist soldier approaches the road, and if it is determined if it safe at that time finds a concealed position and places his LEFT side toward the road so he & his weapon are facing East down the road. A second solder relieves the first one taking up the same position, while the first soldier sprints across the road to a concealed position again placing his LEFT shoulder toward the road so he & his weapon are no facing West. So you now have one solder on the near side facing East down the road & one solder on the far side facing West down the road. The squad keeps this up until the entire unit is across the road.
This is a good small unit tactic, but doesn't work very well in units larger that a platoon. Maybe this will help, maybe it won't.
Jim
Yep,I remember scrolling. I made my diagram pretty formal to show a set piece crossing. In reality,in the Falaise cauldron,my group of escaping guys probably would be a mix from different units,hell bent on escaping the trap. The ring was very tight and only small groups with very good skill and a lot of luck could get out. The more motivated,IE,elite units,would be making this attempt as the regular grunts surrendered in droves. So,I am trying to pay attention to a lot of variables here and ,of course,getting wayyy too involved!! LoL
Just build and paint Rutman !!
J
Sean50
Joined: March 20, 2007
KitMaker: 340 posts
Armorama: 328 posts
Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 08:38 PM UTC
Jerry
Interesting idea. I think you could get yhe point across very well with 8 to 10 figures, or is that still too many?
Have you thought about the "crossing" being the Dives itself? It's not particularly wide down there and would instantly tell the story.
Cheers
Sean
Interesting idea. I think you could get yhe point across very well with 8 to 10 figures, or is that still too many?
Have you thought about the "crossing" being the Dives itself? It's not particularly wide down there and would instantly tell the story.
Cheers
Sean
jrutman
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Monday, January 02, 2017 - 10:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Jerry
Interesting idea. I think you could get yhe point across very well with 8 to 10 figures, or is that still too many?
Have you thought about the "crossing" being the Dives itself? It's not particularly wide down there and would instantly tell the story.
Cheers
Sean
Interesting idea ! Yes,the Dives is quite narrow at that area and in fact,I saw a pic on the google earth of the very bridge that Steiner and his group used. Almost a foot bridge. I don't know if I want to get tied down with building a water feature though,that would have to have low hanging branches and bushes,etc,like this area has.
Maybe for another dio though !
J
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.