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Dragon: IDF Anti-Aircraft Halftrack
varanusk
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 04:12 AM UTC


Dragon is working on a new M3 version from the Israel Defense Forces. After the standard M3 halftrack and one featuring Nord Aviation SS.11 wire-guided antitank guided missiles, a third one is now available, this time fitted with a TCM-20 antiaircraft gun.

Read the Full News Story

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
avenue
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 08:50 AM UTC
still no 67' IDF crews?
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 12:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

still no 67' IDF crews?



Apparently AC Models is working on it...

http://armorama.kitmaker.net/news/24234
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 01:19 PM UTC
Some pictures of the real thing...

http://ckclub31.ipmsfrance.org/wa/halftcm/
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2017 - 01:59 PM UTC
Marvellous !

The conversion set from AFV Design can finally be sent to the bin and luckily I never bought the conversion made by Azimut

/ Robin


Edit:
I wonder how much more would be needed to adapt this new kit to make this one instead ?
somtec
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 03:15 AM UTC
hi
museum piece only the tcm20/btr152 never saw service
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2017 - 03:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

hi
museum piece only the tcm20/btr152 never saw service



Thanks !
At least it was more "real" than some of Dragons PaperPanzers (PaPz)

/ Robin
Austmouse
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 11:08 AM UTC
BTR152 plus TCM20 - never existed in real. It is just a museum cobble together job. All museums do it. The other thing is that this new kit is amixture of early and late fittings. The kit itself seems to be a M16 (fold down sides and narrow rear stoweage boxes) with a new turret. Everyone says the battery box is very wrong on this and Dragons other IDF hald track releases. Dissapionting. It is not that information about these vehicles can easily be found or sought. When will they release an M5 / M9A1 half track??
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 08:14 PM UTC

Quoted Text

BTR152 plus TCM20 - never existed in real. It is just a museum cobble together job.



Do you have a reliable source? According to Wikipedia (Hebrew edition), a few of these vehicles did enter service. On the other hand, as we all know, Wikipedia isn't the most reliable database out there...
somtec
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 10:36 PM UTC
I know an Israeli guy who has done lots of research and written articles specifically on the tcm 20, unfortunately in hebrew ,for their ipms magazine and he is convinced it is a museum build that did not see service.

Personally I would trust him more than wiki

BTR40 yes for a short while, M3 halftrack yes, most numerous and long lasting but BTR 152 no.

On the other hand the btr152 combo does look good
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 11:00 PM UTC
This article (in Spanish) claims that these vehicles were used during the "War of Attrition" and destroyed several enemy aircrafts...The IDF serial number of the vehicle on the photo does not match the one preserved in Hatzerim. Well, hopefully some expert(s) will pour light on the mystery...

http://fdra.blogspot.co.at/2015/10/apc-btr-152-urss-en-israel.html



somtec
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 11:11 PM UTC
Israel captured some btr 152 in 1956, the tcm 20 was used halftrack and ground mount successfully during the war of attrition ,again in 73 and took part in 82 Lebanon.
The first photo in the article is actually a btr40 and i believe the btr152 shown with the tcm mounted is the same one from the airforce museum.
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2017 - 11:23 PM UTC
Yepp, that sounds more than plausible...

Austmouse
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Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 02:12 AM UTC
There is an article by IMPS Israel ( a reasonable source) that shows that the BTR 152 was used with the quad 50 gun mount (from an M16 SPAA) and as said above the TCM 20 was used in the BTR40.

I was keen on doing the BTR152 TCM 20 myslef and actually provided AEF designs with reference images back in 1999. But a question about comms on the fake vehicle brought the result that it was the BTR40 that had the TCM20
ReluctantRenegade
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Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 02:15 AM UTC
Cool stuff, thanks for the info!

knewton
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Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 12:06 PM UTC
another view of the above mentioned BTR 152
Zvierboi
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Posted: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 - 03:44 AM UTC
And yet we still don't have an SU-57. Missing the mark Dragon.
ericadeane
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Posted: Friday, August 25, 2017 - 06:38 AM UTC
FIRST IMPRESSIONS of DML IDF M3 Halftrack with TCM-20 AA guns.

I've not seen any prior write ups so I decided to jot down these notes (along with a few questions) on the recent DML release (kit 3586) of the Israeli AA halftrack. It was under the guise of its Six-Day war "50th anniversary" series of releases. Fine and good but according to Gannon, this combination first saw action during the War of Attrition -- post Six-day War.

My conclusion is one of disappointment. The subject matter is certainly attractive and I'm very satisfied with DML's US Halftrack series. But this kit is a let down accuracy wise -- I would presume that fit isn't an issue as there weren't any in the earlier Halftrack kits.

Here are my pros/cons -- based upon what I can discern from the Gannon's "Israeli Half-tracks Pt 2" and photos I've accumulated from various online sources.

Pros:

1) the TCM-20 guns and ammo cans look good. This pair of long guns dramatically contrasts with the previous M45 quad .50cal gun turret.

2) The DML IDF halftracks include nice PE -- of note are the typical twin jerry can holders and a pioneer tool rack. However, they omit the PE radiator louvers that were included in all prior HT kits. They inform you that the only option is part H3, a closed louver radiator cover.

3) depending on how they take paint, DML includes a bunch of water cans and back packs and bed rolls are included -- made of their DS material. This will make fleshing out the final kit easier.

Cons:

1) The M45 gun turret is naturally taken from the earlier DML M16 kit. However, by the late 60s, the original Briggs-Stratton power pack had been replaced by a more modern motor. DML only includes the WW2-era Briggs & Stratton unit. To be fully accurate, I'll need to scratch a replacement. Also the prominent hand holds which were added for the loaders are missing. This is a big omission, in my opinion too.

2) Side panels: the kit includes side fold down panels (similar to the M16). In photos, it's clear this part is not meant to fold down. Also the lower portion of the side panel is the same as the M16 part and includes fixtures that weren't correct for an IDF halftrack. DML tells you to add three grenade boxes (N6 & N1) -- which aren't in photos of the real thing. My solution will be to frankly, build the side panels from scratch.

3) Kit includes the full width dashboard (B1). I believe that by the late 60s, this should have been the consolidated rectangular dash above the steering column. Can anyone confirm?

4) Windshield .30cal has no cradle. This will need scratchbuilding.

5) Add a seat back to bulkhead Q37 for the center seat

6) Rear bulkhead ammo cans are missing their support braces

7) rear bulkhead missing rear door. DML tools up a new part -- but I'm wondering what was their source of info -- known pictures clearly show this door.

8) tail lights. On the real thing, tail lights were relocated to the upper edge of the rear bulkhead. Their original locations were covered by standard vehicle reflectors. DML ignores this fact.

9) head lights -- are the more modern type -- but from photos, I've only seen these on IDF halftracks that rec'd the diesel upgrades and never with the original louvered radiator armor. The older style headlights aren't included in this kit. If you have a deep spares box of DML HTs, then you'll be fine. However, why put this burden on the modeler who desires accuracy. The other option is to go whole hog and add all the components needed for the diesel upgrade (nose armor, passenger compartment air filter, twin mufflers beneath modified front fenders)

10) gun turret base N4: in reality this was two 16" high cylinders stacked atop one another. DML makes it one long cylinder.

11) the rear ammo bins should be wedge shaped. DML only gives you square shaped boxes.

12) the forward ammo bin is not a shelf but instead, a wide box with a lid. There should be support legs beneath this too.

Now my questions for my readers: have you ever seen instances of 3, 7, 8 or 9 as DML portrays it?

If you can deal with (in my mind) are some pretty big accuracy issues, I think you'll end up with a well fitting kit. However for me, this will represent a fairly big investment in modeling time.


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