What about the recent plethora of US and Russian "Paper Panzers" that people seem to enthuse over? True, most of them were actually built - even if only as pilot models. But none saw production or service. Are the Tortoise and T28 "Paper Panzers"? Are Allied prototype and experimental subjects somehow more worthy than German ones? Sometimes seems like it. Just saying....

I for one have a "Panzer 46" Tortoise in planning, although that will be limited to a hull 20mm cannon and a zany cam scheme, possibly winter splinter. I can see that had the war been slower and Tortoise arrived sooner, there would have been a dedicated assault gun version for dealing with the Westwall. 4.5" gun? 5.5" howitzer? Flame gun? Why not, I say.

I also have the E10 and E25 in the stash. For some reason I just find them, well - cute. There: I said it. Cute tanks ......

Paper Panzers for me is ok. I will only buy ones that are "real". Ie- Panther II - it was a real idea, on paper..the chassis was worked on but not the turret..however..there are drawings for the turret.
This is how far I will go in buying kits.
I don't like the idea that companies are now coming out with kits that are influenced by the PC game World of Tanks. I will not buy a kit that some kid drew up.
These should be called fantasy kits or some other dumb title.

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At what point do paper panzers cross the line into fantasy? Or do we include ALL armor vehicles, including those of sci-fi, anime and fantasy gaming?

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While I agree with Bill K. that this is not a deal-breaker for most people, I have "drawn" my own line or limit about this: for me either Paper Panzers or What-if models should be in between the boundaries of physics and the technology available or suitable to be developed within the time/era when the model was supposed to be deployed.

This meaning that -and this is just my personal point of view, no more, no less- if someone builds an Entwicklung-whatever with hovercraft capabilities or laser tracking devices, it falls in the fictional/Sci-Fi category.

The same goes for a model showing a massive main gun placed on a small turret, where the gun trunnions will never ever fit or the recoil of the first shot would blow-off the entire turret.
-I may add in this category Mig's/Takom recently released "July 1945" What-if version of the Tiger II, which adds stereoscopic rangefinders without increasing the height of the turret roof -so there's no chance for the rangefinder system to fit above the main gun breach, which by the way is a 105mm gun and not the original 88mm-

Again, that's just my opinion

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I dont have a problem with the paper panzers my problem is the modeling world is flooded with tigers and panthers really guys how many tigers do you really need? im soo sick of everyone going crazy every time a new tiger kit comes out
give it a rest

Howdy Y'all
My problems are money and time (I imagine I'm not the only one).
If I ever find one cheap at a swap meet and it doesn't have hundreds and hundreds of parts I might pick one up. I would enjoy building something that the "rivet counters" can't tell me is "wrong".
Let folks build what they want to is my motto.
Take care,
Don "Lakota"

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At what point do paper panzers cross the line into fantasy? Or do we include ALL armor vehicles, including those of sci-fi, anime and fantasy gaming?

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While I agree with Bill K. that this is not a deal-breaker for most people, I have "drawn" my own line or limit about this: for me either Paper Panzers or What-if models should be in between the boundaries of physics and the technology available or suitable to be developed within the time/era when the model was supposed to be deployed.

This meaning that -and this is just my personal point of view, no more, no less- if someone builds an Entwicklung-whatever with hovercraft capabilities or laser tracking devices, it falls in the fictional/Sci-Fi category.

The same goes for a model showing a massive main gun placed on a small turret, where the gun trunnions will never ever fit or the recoil of the first shot would blow-off the entire turret.
-I may add in this category Mig's/Takom recently released "July 1945" What-if version of the Tiger II, which adds stereoscopic rangefinders without increasing the height of the turret roof -so there's no chance for the rangefinder system to fit above the main gun breach, which by the way is a 105mm gun and not the original 88mm-

Again, that's just my opinion

paper panzers such as the mbt-70.

I don't mind them. I bought the Amusing Hobby 38t mortar kit. It's a very clean and detailed kit. It looks kind of clumsy and stupid and that's partially why I bought it. I build a bit of Gundam and Star Wars and I don't mind getting a little bit more imaginitive with paper or what-if stuff.

One thing amongst the paper Panzer that *does* surprise me is that with all of the "actually built to some extent" E-100 variants, and now a handful of new-tool Maus kits, still none of them have the relatively well-documented production Maus turret (with flat sloping front and 75mm above the 128mm on offer. I've got a couple of the nice resin turrets from...uh, whatever Alley Cat's armor division was called, in the stash, so I can do a "production" Maus and a "finished E-100 prototype", so I find it surprising that while we've got Jadgpanzer E-100s, Flak E-100s, Berge...uh, no, maybe I don't want to go there, but given the obscurity of some of what is being released, there's an interesting, well-documented paper panzer that's yet to be done in injection-molded format. Maybe it's coming soon from Takom.

maybe it's a vehicle in WoT (which I don't play)

For others however, have at it...it's called a "choice".