Every time a company (Takom, Amusing Hobby, Trumpeter, etc.) announces a new what-if/paperpanzer there are some people who come in and state how stupid these kits are and others who love them. So i really would like to know your point of view and why.
Why don't you like them? What don't you like? Why do you like them? What do you like?
I for one like paperpanzers. I do modelling for fun and to relax after a workday and with these kits i don't have to concern myself with any accuracy problems or anything like this and i can build and paint them how i like.
I hope you guys stay calm while discussing your opinions on this topic!
cheers Chris
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The "Your opinion on paperpanzers"-Thread
ChrisK89
Joined: June 04, 2015
KitMaker: 80 posts
Armorama: 73 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 03:51 PM UTC
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 04:53 PM UTC
I'm a build what you like guy.I only built one myself, a Trumpeter E-10,I thought it was cool looking so I built it and I enjoyed it.My modeling time is limited so I don't have any other paper panzers on my list.I don't hate them,I'm just not that into them.
I don't get crazy when I see new ones announced,it just doesn't affect me.Just like I don't get mad when another Tiger comes out,if I'm interested in it I will will buy it,if not I move on.
I say build what you want and enjoy,I don't build all of the genres but it doesn't mean I hatell tjem.
I don't get crazy when I see new ones announced,it just doesn't affect me.Just like I don't get mad when another Tiger comes out,if I'm interested in it I will will buy it,if not I move on.
I say build what you want and enjoy,I don't build all of the genres but it doesn't mean I hatell tjem.
hugohuertas
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 05:11 PM UTC
I neither hate nor love Paper Panzers.
But find a few of them to be interesting as modeling subjects or just to leave imagination fly from time to time going for some What If options.
I have Trumpeter E-10/E-25/E-50 (heavily modified)/E-75 and E-100 in different levels of building, and I find all of them quite enjoyable.
If I have to guess why some people "hate" them, perhaps it's because they think that every launch of a Paper Panzer kit is delaying the production of their long awaited "real" one.
A wrong idea, since that's not the way things happen in this market...
Also, there are always the chronical "they should have done ... instead" -fill the blank with whatever the AFV or softskin you want-, but I believe they don't count for this tread because they also appear with any other kind of new release.
And of course, Paper Panzers are a PITA for "rivet-counters", since it is more than hard to question accuracy when a vehicle never passed the drawing stage.
Some people also "hate" World of Tanks game and its players' ideas about armored vehicles reality, but I must say that many of the new kits produced in plastic during the last years are a reality thanks to this game and its fans.
Luckily, today there's room for everyone's taste in our hobby. Golden age for modelers -and "just-kit-builders too-!
But find a few of them to be interesting as modeling subjects or just to leave imagination fly from time to time going for some What If options.
I have Trumpeter E-10/E-25/E-50 (heavily modified)/E-75 and E-100 in different levels of building, and I find all of them quite enjoyable.
If I have to guess why some people "hate" them, perhaps it's because they think that every launch of a Paper Panzer kit is delaying the production of their long awaited "real" one.
A wrong idea, since that's not the way things happen in this market...
Also, there are always the chronical "they should have done ... instead" -fill the blank with whatever the AFV or softskin you want-, but I believe they don't count for this tread because they also appear with any other kind of new release.
And of course, Paper Panzers are a PITA for "rivet-counters", since it is more than hard to question accuracy when a vehicle never passed the drawing stage.
Some people also "hate" World of Tanks game and its players' ideas about armored vehicles reality, but I must say that many of the new kits produced in plastic during the last years are a reality thanks to this game and its fans.
Luckily, today there's room for everyone's taste in our hobby. Golden age for modelers -and "just-kit-builders too-!
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 05:29 PM UTC
If it is interesting, it is interesting. I like accurate, but I also like a chance to let my creative side work. I mean, I wouldn't want my head to lean one direction, because I only use half of it. 
supaderpa
Joined: March 28, 2016
KitMaker: 157 posts
Armorama: 140 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 06:15 PM UTC
I think some people don't realize that Amusing Hobby's niche has always been in prototypes and paper panzers. Bit funny when I read posts lamenting their release of another paper panzer kit.
That said, given the plethora of model kit companies today, I'm not sure why people are even griping about paper panzer kits being released when you have new kits being announced every month, week or so.
As for me, I like paper panzers. Sometimes I just like to build my own what if tanks regardless of whether they appeared on a drawing board or not. Even then, I'm not much of a stickler for total accuracy when it comes to building real tanks. I'll still go for the best detail I can get for a reasonable price ... which is usually Tamiya... I'm poor..shut up..
That said, given the plethora of model kit companies today, I'm not sure why people are even griping about paper panzer kits being released when you have new kits being announced every month, week or so.
As for me, I like paper panzers. Sometimes I just like to build my own what if tanks regardless of whether they appeared on a drawing board or not. Even then, I'm not much of a stickler for total accuracy when it comes to building real tanks. I'll still go for the best detail I can get for a reasonable price ... which is usually Tamiya... I'm poor..shut up..
ivanhoe6
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 07:00 PM UTC
I don't love or hate paper panzers. The only one I've ever built was the E-10 and it was fun. As Hugo stated, "If I have to guess why some people "hate" them, perhaps it's because they think that every launch of a Paper Panzer kit is delaying the production of their long awaited "real" one". I can see their point and it's a good one.
Bottom line is the "bottom line". Manufacturers would stop making them if modelers didn't buy them.
I don't anticipate buying any in the near future but If I did all I ask for is a hassle free build.
Have a good weekend all !
Tom
Bottom line is the "bottom line". Manufacturers would stop making them if modelers didn't buy them.
I don't anticipate buying any in the near future but If I did all I ask for is a hassle free build.
Have a good weekend all !
Tom
anti-hero
Joined: March 20, 2005
KitMaker: 420 posts
Armorama: 307 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 07:22 PM UTC
Personally, I REALLY like this paper panzer trend. As others have said. I build for fun and relaxation. I truly do admire and enjoy looking at the work of those who superdetail and try to get every little detail accurate, but that's not me. And like others, I like to occasionally show my work, but when someone refers to the cammo scheme you put on a King Tiger as "from a fairy tale" ... come on. (And it was not some crazy dazzle cammo scheme with unusual colors) We all know of and have seen examples of this.
Paper panzers let me do what ever the hell I want.
I agree with what others have said, that the "hate" for these kits comes from the belief that the kit they want produced isn't being produced because the manufacturers keep doing these "fantasy" vehicles. It absolutely boils to money. It seems this paperpanzer trend has not lost any steam, and the kit producers see this, so they will continue to put out "fantasy" vehicles over, say, inter-war armor. $ it's the bottom line.
And I can't wait for one of these Bärs (Bären ???) to hit the shelves, I've been wanting to build one ever since I've seen the diorama Sigeyuki Mizuno built using the New Connections kit.
Paper panzers let me do what ever the hell I want.
I agree with what others have said, that the "hate" for these kits comes from the belief that the kit they want produced isn't being produced because the manufacturers keep doing these "fantasy" vehicles. It absolutely boils to money. It seems this paperpanzer trend has not lost any steam, and the kit producers see this, so they will continue to put out "fantasy" vehicles over, say, inter-war armor. $ it's the bottom line.
And I can't wait for one of these Bärs (Bären ???) to hit the shelves, I've been wanting to build one ever since I've seen the diorama Sigeyuki Mizuno built using the New Connections kit.
j76lr
Joined: September 22, 2006
KitMaker: 1,081 posts
Armorama: 1,066 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 07:30 PM UTC
if you like it build it !!
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 07:46 PM UTC
At what point do paper panzers cross the line into fantasy? Or do we include ALL armor vehicles, including those of sci-fi, anime and fantasy gaming?
anti-hero
Joined: March 20, 2005
KitMaker: 420 posts
Armorama: 307 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 08:14 PM UTC
Quoted Text
At what point do paper panzers cross the line into fantasy? Or do we include ALL armor vehicles, including those of sci-fi, anime and fantasy gaming?
Why does it matter when a vehicle crosses this line?
As far as I know, none of the kits released are completely made up. All were at least conceived "on paper." (Except for the Trumpeter E-100 turret which was the creation of a fellow modeler.)
And don't take any of this as a "WTF!! Why does it matter!" in your face type of statement.
obg153
Joined: April 07, 2009
KitMaker: 1,063 posts
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Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 08:25 PM UTC
I'll count myself with those who say "build what you like. No point in stressing over what model companies do or don't release. Whatever genre it is, do it for yourself. And as long as we're wishing for kits that may/or may never be released, I want a Romulan War Bird with a fully functional cloaking device in 1/16. Or, I could just put a pedestal on a base, and tell the show judges that "It's cloaked right now."
brekinapez
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 08:28 PM UTC
I personally don't build them, as my intention is to build every production vehicle used by the Germans at the moment. If I reach this goal, I might build some of the planned yet never produced or passed the prototype stage vehicles, as I like some of the E-series designs.
But other people can build whatever they want, as the money they spend might fund something I'd rather build down the road.
But other people can build whatever they want, as the money they spend might fund something I'd rather build down the road.
JPTRR
Managing Editor
#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
Armorama: 2,447 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 08:38 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Personally, I REALLY like this paper panzer trend. As others have said. I build for fun and relaxation.
Paper panzers let me do what ever the hell I want.
Well said. I haven't built any p.p.s but some intrigue me. Same with Luftwaffe '46 subjects. Not against them but have other subjects vying for my limited time. Of course, I have always enjoyed some creative unit creation, although I always try to keep authentic camo.
If I have to go on record about p.p.s, keep them coming.
JPTRR
Managing Editor#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
Armorama: 2,447 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 08:39 PM UTC
Quoted Text
...Romulan War Bird with a fully functional cloaking device in 1/16. Or, I could just put a pedestal on a base, and tell the show judges that "It's cloaked right now."
IPMS judge would still pull out the little flashlight and dental mirror.
hugohuertas
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 09:27 PM UTC
Quoted Text
At what point do paper panzers cross the line into fantasy? Or do we include ALL armor vehicles, including those of sci-fi, anime and fantasy gaming?
While I agree with Bill K. that this is not a deal-breaker for most people, I have "drawn" my own line or limit about this: for me either Paper Panzers or What-if models should be in between the boundaries of physics and the technology available or suitable to be developed within the time/era when the model was supposed to be deployed.
This meaning that -and this is just my personal point of view, no more, no less- if someone builds an Entwicklung-whatever with hovercraft capabilities or laser tracking devices, it falls in the fictional/Sci-Fi category.
The same goes for a model showing a massive main gun placed on a small turret, where the gun trunnions will never ever fit or the recoil of the first shot would blow-off the entire turret.
-I may add in this category Mig's/Takom recently released "July 1945" What-if version of the Tiger II, which adds stereoscopic rangefinders without increasing the height of the turret roof -so there's no chance for the rangefinder system to fit above the main gun breach, which by the way is a 105mm gun and not the original 88mm-
Again, that's just my opinion
tanknick22
Joined: February 19, 2009
KitMaker: 1,139 posts
Armorama: 1,100 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 10:04 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextAt what point do paper panzers cross the line into fantasy? Or do we include ALL armor vehicles, including those of sci-fi, anime and fantasy gaming?
While I agree with Bill K. that this is not a deal-breaker for most people, I have "drawn" my own line or limit about this: for me either Paper Panzers or What-if models should be in between the boundaries of physics and the technology available or suitable to be developed within the time/era when the model was supposed to be deployed.
This meaning that -and this is just my personal point of view, no more, no less- if someone builds an Entwicklung-whatever with hovercraft capabilities or laser tracking devices, it falls in the fictional/Sci-Fi category.
The same goes for a model showing a massive main gun placed on a small turret, where the gun trunnions will never ever fit or the recoil of the first shot would blow-off the entire turret.
-I may add in this category Mig's/Takom recently released "July 1945" What-if version of the Tiger II, which adds stereoscopic rangefinders without increasing the height of the turret roof -so there's no chance for the rangefinder system to fit above the main gun breach, which by the way is a 105mm gun and not the original 88mm-
Again, that's just my opinion
I dont have a problem with the paper panzers my problem is the modeling world is flooded with tigers and panthers really guys how many tigers do you really need? im soo sick of everyone going crazy every time a new tiger kit comes out
give it a rest
ivanhoe6
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 10:05 PM UTC
I forgot to add this to my earlier post.... I'm in my early 60's and have been modeling for 50 + years. I remember there not being a lot of different kits to build. Monagram with their 1/32 armor kits. Tamiya came along with the motorized kits. Then the new kid, Dragon, came along with their Imperial series with, at the time, high part counts, varied subjects. They were for the most part the only ones with new releases. Now look at our options. All the new manufacturers, variants of the old standards, introductions of things you'd have never seen in plastic, better accuracy, build ability and so on. It is a great time to be a modeler we should be happy to have the options that we have now.
hugohuertas
Joined: January 26, 2007
KitMaker: 1,024 posts
Armorama: 1,013 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 10:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I dont have a problem with the paper panzers my problem is the modeling world is flooded with tigers and panthers really guys how many tigers do you really need? im soo sick of everyone going crazy every time a new tiger kit comes out
give it a rest
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 10:28 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextAt what point do paper panzers cross the line into fantasy? Or do we include ALL armor vehicles, including those of sci-fi, anime and fantasy gaming?
While I agree with Bill K. that this is not a deal-breaker for most people, I have "drawn" my own line or limit about this: for me either Paper Panzers or What-if models should be in between the boundaries of physics and the technology available or suitable to be developed within the time/era when the model was supposed to be deployed.
This meaning that -and this is just my personal point of view, no more, no less- if someone builds an Entwicklung-whatever with hovercraft capabilities or laser tracking devices, it falls in the fictional/Sci-Fi category.
The same goes for a model showing a massive main gun placed on a small turret, where the gun trunnions will never ever fit or the recoil of the first shot would blow-off the entire turret.
-I may add in this category Mig's/Takom recently released "July 1945" What-if version of the Tiger II, which adds stereoscopic rangefinders without increasing the height of the turret roof -so there's no chance for the rangefinder system to fit above the main gun breach, which by the way is a 105mm gun and not the original 88mm-
Again, that's just my opinion
I dont have a problem with the paper panzers my problem is the modeling world is flooded with tigers and panthers really guys how many tigers do you really need? im soo sick of everyone going crazy every time a new tiger kit comes out
give it a rest
You could say the same thing about Shermans,Mustangs,Messerschmitts,and Spitfires,but I say the more the merrier.More choices.Just cause a manufacturer puts out another Tiger or a Paper Panzer,it probably isn't the reason they didn't put out your most wanted kit.
Wingtsun
Joined: July 16, 2006
KitMaker: 295 posts
Armorama: 259 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 10:37 PM UTC
I am indifferent. I agree "Build what you like". There are so many model companies releasing so many products each year it is impossible to build every new kit released. So I have not purchased and built any paper panzer only because the ones I really want have not yet been made in plastic. On the other hand, new kit releases of real vehicles grab my interest first such as the T-90MS and AMX-10RCR for example.
tanknick22
Joined: February 19, 2009
KitMaker: 1,139 posts
Armorama: 1,100 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 10:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextQuoted TextAt what point do paper panzers cross the line into fantasy? Or do we include ALL armor vehicles, including those of sci-fi, anime and fantasy gaming?
While I agree with Bill K. that this is not a deal-breaker for most people, I have "drawn" my own line or limit about this: for me either Paper Panzers or What-if models should be in between the boundaries of physics and the technology available or suitable to be developed within the time/era when the model was supposed to be deployed.
This meaning that -and this is just my personal point of view, no more, no less- if someone builds an Entwicklung-whatever with hovercraft capabilities or laser tracking devices, it falls in the fictional/Sci-Fi category.
The same goes for a model showing a massive main gun placed on a small turret, where the gun trunnions will never ever fit or the recoil of the first shot would blow-off the entire turret.
-I may add in this category Mig's/Takom recently released "July 1945" What-if version of the Tiger II, which adds stereoscopic rangefinders without increasing the height of the turret roof -so there's no chance for the rangefinder system to fit above the main gun breach, which by the way is a 105mm gun and not the original 88mm-
Again, that's just my opinion
I dont have a problem with the paper panzers my problem is the modeling world is flooded with tigers and panthers really guys how many tigers do you really need? im soo sick of everyone going crazy every time a new tiger kit comes out
give it a rest
You could say the same thing about Shermans,Mustangs,Messerschmitts,and Spitfires,but I say the more the merrier.More choices.Just cause a manufacturer puts out another Tiger or a Paper Panzer,it probably isn't the reason they didn't put out your most wanted kit.
At least with a sherman the build options are endless just look how many different versions of Isreali Shermans you can build and with a tiger maybe what 3 or 4 build options
easyco69
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 2,275 posts
Armorama: 2,233 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 11:16 PM UTC
Paper Panzers for me is ok. I will only buy ones that are "real". Ie- Panther II - it was a real idea, on paper..the chassis was worked on but not the turret..however..there are drawings for the turret.
This is how far I will go in buying kits.
I don't like the idea that companies are now coming out with kits that are influenced by the PC game World of Tanks. I will not buy a kit that some kid drew up.
These should be called fantasy kits or some other dumb title.
This is how far I will go in buying kits.
I don't like the idea that companies are now coming out with kits that are influenced by the PC game World of Tanks. I will not buy a kit that some kid drew up.
These should be called fantasy kits or some other dumb title.
tanknick22
Joined: February 19, 2009
KitMaker: 1,139 posts
Armorama: 1,100 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 11:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Paper Panzers for me is ok. I will only buy ones that are "real". Ie- Panther II - it was a real idea, on paper..the chassis was worked on but not the turret..however..there are drawings for the turret.
This is how far I will go in buying kits.
I don't like the idea that companies are now coming out with kits that are influenced by the PC game World of Tanks. I will not buy a kit that some kid drew up.
These should be called fantasy kits or some other dumb title.
history proves that the entire E-series of armored vehicles were real paper panzers
easyco69
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 2,275 posts
Armorama: 2,233 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2017 - 11:28 PM UTC
But........if a modeller one day decided to build only paper panzers, then that would be ok.I say this because before I started doing modelling again..I decided to do only ww2 armor. When I was in my 20's....I was doing only modern armor. When I was in my teens I was doing only ww2 aircraft. So.....I guess it boils down to "choice". I chose to do only ww2 armor this time around.
Jmarles
Joined: November 02, 2008
KitMaker: 1,138 posts
Armorama: 953 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2017 - 12:17 AM UTC
I don't mind them. I bought the Amusing Hobby 38t mortar kit. It's a very clean and detailed kit. It looks kind of clumsy and stupid and that's partially why I bought it. I build a bit of Gundam and Star Wars and I don't mind getting a little bit more imaginitive with paper or what-if stuff. It also gives me the opportunity to do odd camo schemes that have no basis in reality! 
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