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Armor/AFV: AA/AT/Artillery
For discussions about artillery and anti-aircraft or anti-tank guns.
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Did kettenkraftrads tow artillery?
-Captain-
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Oulu, Finland
Joined: October 25, 2003
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Posted: Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 11:13 PM UTC
that`s the question. Did they tow pak 40s or 20mm flak38s?
DutchBird
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Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: April 09, 2003
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Posted: Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 12:02 AM UTC

Short answer: I do not know... I have never seen pictures of it, but I doubt it.... The towing capacity for a kettenkrad was 992 lbs (450 kg)(according to this site , very handy for raw data).

Towing vehicles for Flak 38: Kfz. 81, regular trucks (among them Krupp Protze), Ox cart, 3 ton vehicles, and my gues would be Sd.Kfz 10 as well (as it is also used as a mobile mount (10/4 and 10/5), and in emergencies the Sd.Kfz 250 and 251.

Towing vehicles for 75mm Pak 40 (weighing in at 1500 kg)..

Sd.Kfz 10, Sd.Kfz 11, RSO, Sd.Kfz 251(emergencies)
Graywolf
Staff MemberSenior Editor
HISTORICUS FORMA
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Izmir, Turkey / Türkçe
Joined: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 01:00 AM UTC
I started thinking a kettenkrad that tows a Me163 comet can also tow some kinds of artillery.
Than I remembered a DML kit as a reference

just a few more photos



i wish those help
straightedge
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Ohio, United States
Joined: January 18, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 01:30 AM UTC
Them are pretty good pictures there, but could you tell me does the motorcycle wheel control the tracks for turning, that it is actually there for better ease in controling it over levers, like they done on the modern earthmovers, by putting steering wheels on them over the old toggle switch steering, which very few could steer, but anybody can handle the steering wheel.
-Captain-
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Oulu, Finland
Joined: October 25, 2003
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Posted: Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 03:03 AM UTC
Thanks for your aswers guys
blaster76
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Texas, United States
Joined: September 15, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 10:29 AM UTC
Hey, it makes for one cool motorcycle type vehicle. Those clowns on the build a motorcycle show never thought of anything like this
straightedge
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Ohio, United States
Joined: January 18, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 11:44 AM UTC
I wonder what kind of reception you would get toolen in on one of these babies at Sturgis, at their big hoop la they have every year. Bet you would turn some heads.
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 04:14 PM UTC
To Greywolf: in the larger war-time photo what are the Kettenkrads towing? It's obviously artillery, and it looks like it's being towed barrel first. Is this the Fallschirmjager 75mm recoilless rifle with a very large shield?
)
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Sunday, February 22, 2004 - 04:30 PM UTC
On a closer inspection, the photo was taken in Russia and the soldiers are Wehrmacht. The gun carriage wheels and shield shape look Soviet - is it the 45mm AT? If so , the breech ( although covered) looks overly large and the trail legs look too short - then there's that odd extended handle. Can you ID it?
#:-)
BlueBear
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Idaho, United States
Joined: August 26, 2002
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Posted: Monday, February 23, 2004 - 02:48 AM UTC
The DML picture shows a Kettenkrad towing an 88mm Puppchen. It never went into production, because it didn't give enough of an improvement over a Panzerschreck to justify it. KK's could handle light guns, but you needed another one to tow an amo trailer behind it. German air landing divisions used the things to haul 75mm and 105mm recoilless rifles around until regular artillery and prime movers showed up.
Golikell
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
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Posted: Monday, February 23, 2004 - 03:15 AM UTC
Püpchens certainly wher produced. I've seen several examples of them in real life. One of which was in Saumur. The handle on the gun is clearly intended for man handling and laying the gun. It indeed is towed barrel first, and seems something like mountain arty to me. But then again, I could be mistaken
Savage
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: June 04, 2003
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Posted: Monday, February 23, 2004 - 05:22 AM UTC
Can't remember where, but I have seen photos of KK towing aircraft on an airfield, also Tamiya has kits out with the Sd kfz 2 towing both Me262 and Do335A PFEIL.



Quoted from: http://www.expo.hqusareur.army.mil/historical.htm
“The Kettenkraftrad, or tracked motorcycle, is another unique vehicle. Originally intended for light mountain infantry units, its versatility soon extended its uses to a wide-variety of missions - from wire-laying, to towing light anti-tank guns, to MEDEVAC, and the towing/parking of planes at airfields.”


I would say that if a KK was available, troops would hitch almost anything to it. Just because there are no photos does not mean it wasn’t done! Necessity produces ingenuity!
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 05:22 PM UTC
Possibly the 105 recoilless rifle? (Although it was produced for Fallschirmjager and not Wehrmacht).
mikeli125
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: December 24, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 09:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Them are pretty good pictures there, but could you tell me does the motorcycle wheel control the tracks for turning, that it is actually there for better ease in controling it over levers, like they done on the modern earthmovers, by putting steering wheels on them over the old toggle switch steering, which very few could steer, but anybody can handle the steering wheel.



Straightedge,
Was watching a program recently which said that these can be driven without
the forks on place
Golikell
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: October 25, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 - 11:18 PM UTC
I actually have a picture somwhere which shows one being driven without frontwheel.
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Monday, March 01, 2004 - 02:01 PM UTC
I think I remenber reading somewhere that the tracks were controlled by how much the driver turned the handlebars ie. if he steered to the right the tracks on that side would slow down and he would turn right. (Or something like that!)
#:-)
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