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Armor/AFV: Softskins
Softskins group discussions.
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Air Force Special Forces Humvee Questions
niart17
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Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 08:16 PM UTC
Awesome, thanks again Brent. I guess I was only going by what I remember from Desert Storm information when they were hurriedly painted tan over green.

Judging from the pics, Im pretty sure the interior is tan as well in my vehicle. I don't know about the engine compartment but as I likely won't display it hood up often I guess it's not that important.

Another area I'm having trouble finding reference on is the roof hatch gun ring. It appears to be a different style then the ones I've seen in that it doesn't look like it has the triagular shaped "ears" on the ring in the area under where the hatch opens. It looks like it might just be round with some raised plate acting as a hatch support? Anyone have any information about that? Am I just seeing it wrong?



Bill
j76lr
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Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 08:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text

While in "support" of these 'units' when I was still active duty AF, it was very unlikely, and very much 'frowned upon', that there would be the taking of any kind of photo/film, of any equipment, that went out with and/or possessed by the crews...no matter whether it was for training, or deployment, to 'real world' events. Photos that do show up in military related publications usually appear as a rather generic shot and is usually so 'sanitized' for just such a reason that tries to prevent the chance of even remotely being exposed to such a compromise of 'sensitive' equipment. Don't be too surprised, or disappointed, that perhaps not too many of those photos can be found or obtained. Another example...on any particular mission, there could be opportunities where photos of the crew could be taken in front of their aircraft/vehicle, other times, on that very same mission, no photos were possible/allowed because of the mission/cargo/weaponry/equipment involved with that very same aircraft, at another location, and then usually under the cover of darkness were these vehicles/aircraft then loaded and/or equipped.


i served in the AF 68 72 in the security police , 366the sps Da Nang . we took pick of everything lol, Times mustve changed .
WXerock
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Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 10:06 PM UTC
Bill, if you look closely at photos of the Legend GMV conversion you will see exactly what the hatch and and gun ring on your prototype should look like. It is different from any other HMMWV hatch used. This type seemed to be used only on the GMV.

Regards,

Eric
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Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 10:14 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Bill, if you look closely at photos of the Legend GMV conversion you will see exactly what the hatch and and gun ring on your prototype should look like. It is different from any other HMMWV hatch used. This type seemed to be used only on the GMV.

Regards,

Eric


Partly - yes. Only this triangle under the gun mount is the same as in Legend conversion set. At GMV photos, posted by Bill, there is newer type of weapons ring. It doesn't have these 'ears' (as, f.e., in Tamiya's M1025 kit). I think good reference could be this walkaround of Polish M1025A2 (of course without armor shields):
http://humvee-models.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=58
(Bill is registered on this forum, so he will be able to see it).
niart17
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Posted: Friday, June 23, 2017 - 11:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Partly - yes. Only this triangle under the gun mount is the same as in Legend conversion set. At GMV photos, posted by Bill, there is newer type of weapons ring. It doesn't have these 'ears' (as, f.e., in Tamiya's M1025 kit). I think good reference could be this walkaround of Polish M1025A2 (of course without armor shields):
http://humvee-models.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=58
(Bill is registered on this forum, so he will be able to see it).



Thanks guys. Kuba I think you are correct. That ring looks like it's the same. The only difference I see other than the shields is it looks like my gun mount doesn't have the lightening holes on the frame. In that regard it looks like the normal gun mount. but the triangle areas are missing. Thanks, I think that gets me what I need to model it.

Bill
vettejack
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Posted: Saturday, June 24, 2017 - 04:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

While in "support" of these 'units' when I was still active duty AF, it was very unlikely, and very much 'frowned upon', that there would be the taking of any kind of photo/film, of any equipment, that went out with and/or possessed by the crews...no matter whether it was for training, or deployment, to 'real world' events. Photos that do show up in military related publications usually appear as a rather generic shot and is usually so 'sanitized' for just such a reason that tries to prevent the chance of even remotely being exposed to such a compromise of 'sensitive' equipment. Don't be too surprised, or disappointed, that perhaps not too many of those photos can be found or obtained. Another example...on any particular mission, there could be opportunities where photos of the crew could be taken in front of their aircraft/vehicle, other times, on that very same mission, no photos were possible/allowed because of the mission/cargo/weaponry/equipment involved with that very same aircraft, at another location, and then usually under the cover of darkness were these vehicles/aircraft then loaded and/or equipped.


i served in the AF 68 72 in the security police , 366the sps Da Nang . we took pick of everything lol, Times mustve changed .



I was witness to folks getting, at a minimum, an Article 15 for even mentioning the vehicle/aircraft they were attached to. Some, even relieved of duty to that section/squadron/detachment/unit. Yes...times have changed...and ty for your service as well!
vettejack
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Posted: Sunday, June 25, 2017 - 06:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Your belief of the painting of the HMMWV's is incorrect. They came from the factory in one of three paint schemes.

1. Overall CARC Green
2. 3-color NATO camouflage
3. Overall CARC Sand

The HMMWV's were contracted for production in lots. The destination of the production lot determined what color the vehicles would be painted in.

Having said that, a vehicle could certainly have been 'over sprayed' but wouldn't have been very common. In Desert Storm, over painted vehicles were very common.

Interiors on all vehicles are green coming out of the factory unless they are overpainted in the field. However, in the case of a configuration such as a M1038 or M1152 where the cargo compartment could be uncovered and visible in the open, it is painted to match the vehicle exterior.



Brent's assessment is highly accurate. And my apologies in completely skipping over this portion of the questioning about colors. Per my experience. vehicles pre-destined for desert use were painted specifically with CARC sand. That is how our unit picked some of them up stateside for flight into the T/O. Alternately, some vehicles were immediately deployed out of European stock, still in green, to be over sprayed in sand later, if at all, in the T/O. We would even have manifest, with dates, of arriving/departing vehicles, of all types, with color/designation/unit/minimum equipment list, that no longer wore the color indicated when initially deployed. Lots of vehicles remained green their entire use in the T/O. I guess what I'm trying to say is that pretty much a multiple of combinations would be/are possible, and did exist. There was intratheatre vehicle swap outs from one Middle East country to another, adding to multiple over sprays and then the attempt to return back to an original platform of color. In the G.I. world, pretty much anything goes...especially if times does not permit a paint job. Its my understanding that the paint on a vehicle was pretty much left up to the unit, more so than the command, and depending on its use in the T/O, and the discipline of the squadron/unit assigned these duties. At least that was my conversations with a few of the end users. Hope this helps, for your decision depends on my eye witness accounts instead of a photograph.
niart17
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Posted: Sunday, June 25, 2017 - 08:02 PM UTC
Thanks John, no apology at all required!

I've done a little more work on this, tidying up the dash a little and started to figure out ride geometry etc... I think it sits a little high for my liking but I'm not sure I want to go through the pain of trying to lower it. Do you guys think it's noticeably too high? I'm not sure how I'd lower it bar doing some serious cutting and possibly having to rebuild a good part of the suspension.







these are just loosely placed together, all the seams and nips will be straightened out once it's glued for real.

Thanks for looking and all your help!
Bill
vettejack
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Posted: Sunday, June 25, 2017 - 09:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks John, no apology at all required!

I've done a little more work on this, tidying up the dash a little and started to figure out ride geometry etc... I think it sits a little high for my liking but I'm not sure I want to go through the pain of trying to lower it. Do you guys think it's noticeably too high? I'm not sure how I'd lower it bar doing some serious cutting and possibly having to rebuild a good part of the suspension.








these are just loosely placed together, all the seams and nips will be straightened out once it's glued for real.

Thanks for looking and all your help!
Bill



All you have to do with the load, compared to vehicle height, is to ensure it's proportioned correctly. Another words: heavy load, more pronounced 'sagging' as you put it. With this being said, keep in mind: a vehicle packed with clothing, sleeping bags, and other light goods like food, can/may appear fully utilized, yet should be relatedly light in weight...hence, little or no sag. Conversely, a vehicle with just a few weapons and ammo may not have the look of being completely full/utilized, however, the deception could have a pronounced appearance of sagging just on weapons weight alone. Good luck!
niart17
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Posted: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - 07:52 PM UTC
Thanks for the reply John. I'll likely leave the ride height as it is and just hope it doesn't look wrong with a load. I am going to put some stowage but there will likely only be 1 or maybe 2 figures in the vehicle (per IPMS rules to not be a vignette) if any, so that's some of the weight not on the wheels.

Speaking of stowage, I've been collecting resources on some of the items I can see in the pic of the vehicle I'm building, but is there an area of this site somewhere that has information for standard items like sizes of 30 cal and 50 cal ammo boxes, water can dimensions and some of the other weapons and equipment carried? It would be really nice to have a lot of that in an easy to search area. If not I can continue googlefying everything.

Thanks,
Bill
vettejack
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Posted: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 - 10:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for the reply John. I'll likely leave the ride height as it is and just hope it doesn't look wrong with a load. I am going to put some stowage but there will likely only be 1 or maybe 2 figures in the vehicle (per IPMS rules to not be a vignette) if any, so that's some of the weight not on the wheels.

Speaking of stowage, I've been collecting resources on some of the items I can see in the pic of the vehicle I'm building, but is there an area of this site somewhere that has information for standard items like sizes of 30 cal and 50 cal ammo boxes, water can dimensions and some of the other weapons and equipment carried? It would be really nice to have a lot of that in an easy to search area. If not I can continue googlefying everything.

Thanks,
Bill



My answer would be to Googlefy it. I've been retired military for more than 20 years...which takes me out of knowing (even caring ) about what is done today in a HUMMER. Other than the 5 gal Sceptor can that normally replaces the old familiar metal one, I would not be shy to use a metal one in/on your vehicle. On the .50cal can, I would venture to say the modern one could very closely resemble pretty much the old one (trinkets and bling not withstanding). But I could be wrong on both counts...
sgtsauer
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Posted: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 - 12:12 PM UTC
If you go to my website www.hmmwvinscale.com and go to the 'cargo items' section, you will see detailed photos of fuel cans, water cans, ammunition cans, etc.
niart17
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Posted: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 - 07:49 PM UTC
Thanks Brents, that is good for images. I'm hoping to find either scaled drawings or even pics with measurement references included, like sometimes when a pic is taken with a ruler in frame to give size reference.

I haven't updated this thread because as I'm sure you guys know and have noticed, Photobucket decided to do it dumb move and no longer allows 3rd party hosting. So I'm in the process of trying to transfer my images to another provider and will have to rebuild all my model site threads. I hope to get some of that done soon.

I did get my 3D printed parts for the turret and M2 in and I'm very happy with them. Would love to show you guys pics but alas...oh well.

Bill
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