Hi guys, There is a Jagdtiger over in the photos section and it looks real. There is no narrative to go along with the photos telling how he achieved this. It looks heavy like a tank should. The barrel particularly and also what I think is the use of pencil graphite on the edges.
Can anyone take a look and give me your opinion on how he got this result and how the barrel looks like real dark rust steel?
Any insight on how I could achieve this? I have the re-release of the Tamiya 1/25th Jagdpanther and I would like to achieve the same result.
Thanks for any opinions.
AFV Painting & Weathering
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Making a tank look more like steel?
George587
Joined: September 06, 2016
KitMaker: 14 posts
Armorama: 11 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 30, 2017 - 05:40 AM UTC
sdk10159
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 556 posts
Armorama: 433 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 30, 2017 - 06:14 AM UTC
Can you point us to which Jadgtiger?
Thirian24
Joined: September 30, 2015
KitMaker: 2,493 posts
Armorama: 2,344 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 30, 2017 - 06:36 AM UTC
Yes, which picture.
Taylortony
Joined: November 30, 2010
KitMaker: 126 posts
Armorama: 102 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 30, 2017 - 03:14 PM UTC
It is this one as he asks in the comments box...
http://www.armorama.co.uk/features/7545
Photography helps to George, shoot from what would be eye level in real life.
http://www.armorama.co.uk/features/7545
Photography helps to George, shoot from what would be eye level in real life.
kefran
Joined: January 29, 2003
KitMaker: 87 posts
Armorama: 85 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 30, 2017 - 05:01 PM UTC
hello,
from what i see on the model there's nothing difficult : graphite applied on the edges (even too much) and gray primer for the barrel.
rust probably treatef with a set of rust pigments like ammo or AK
from what i see on the model there's nothing difficult : graphite applied on the edges (even too much) and gray primer for the barrel.
rust probably treatef with a set of rust pigments like ammo or AK
165thspc
#521
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
Armorama: 8,695 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 30, 2017 - 05:06 PM UTC
That beautiful model can be credited more to masterful artistry and practice than to exotic materials.
George587
Joined: September 06, 2016
KitMaker: 14 posts
Armorama: 11 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 30, 2017 - 09:47 PM UTC
I didn't know how to link the photo. Yes that is the one.
The barrel looks like a wash not a pigment as it is very smooth.
No matter what brand of anything one uses you still have to know the technique.
I guess I just have to experiment on old or cheap models first.
Thanks for the replies
The barrel looks like a wash not a pigment as it is very smooth.
No matter what brand of anything one uses you still have to know the technique.
I guess I just have to experiment on old or cheap models first.
Thanks for the replies
sgtreef
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 30, 2017 - 10:08 PM UTC
A great looking model indeed.
Have at it, very skilled with Graphite.
Cheers
Have at it, very skilled with Graphite.
Cheers
11Bravo_C2
Joined: May 12, 2015
KitMaker: 475 posts
Armorama: 394 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 30, 2017 - 10:29 PM UTC
Quoted Text
No matter what brand of anything one uses you still have to know the technique.
You answered your own question then...
George587
Joined: September 06, 2016
KitMaker: 14 posts
Armorama: 11 posts
Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 03:52 AM UTC
Well I don't know the technique, so I didn't answer anything, and hoped to save hours trying things that didn't work, by posting question here.
TankManNick
Joined: February 01, 2010
KitMaker: 551 posts
Armorama: 543 posts
Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 04:22 AM UTC
Just to be a contrarian, I would say an operational vehicle would be more likely to be 'dirt colored' than 'metallic looking'. 
However, if you like the look or want enhance the tracks, my understanding is that you take a fairly 'soft' pencil and carefully rub the side (not the pointy end) on the exposed edges. If too stark you can tone it down/blend it in gently rubbing - with a soft cloth I guess. Ok I'm obviously not the expert on this technique but I thought I would at least TRY and help with some pointers!
Good luck!
However, if you like the look or want enhance the tracks, my understanding is that you take a fairly 'soft' pencil and carefully rub the side (not the pointy end) on the exposed edges. If too stark you can tone it down/blend it in gently rubbing - with a soft cloth I guess. Ok I'm obviously not the expert on this technique but I thought I would at least TRY and help with some pointers!
Good luck!
varanusk
Managing Editor
Joined: July 04, 2013
KitMaker: 1,288 posts
Armorama: 942 posts
Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 12:35 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Just to be a contrarian, I would say an operational vehicle would be more likely to be 'dirt colored' than 'metallic looking'.
Agree. A satin finish for the metal with some matt pigments as dust and dirt is usually a good combination.
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 12:43 PM UTC
It's called weathering. If you type "weathering" in the little search window at the top of the page you will get lots of results, tips, techniques, preferences and how to's. There are as many techniques out there as there are modellers. Start basic and work up. And it takes PRACTICE!! Get some cheap kits, ebay is a good source and use them. There are some good books out there that start out with the basics and take you to the advanced. Be warned. This is not something you pick up overnight. After more than 40 years I learn new stuff all the time.
sgtreef
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 04:17 PM UTC
Check out Mig on his way, Michael Rinaldi, two of the best I think as of now.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDNKZpyMawVeRKhHB2zwIbnRKv4wtNEFM
When he was with AK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlntGqRgcBU
Michael.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDNKZpyMawVeRKhHB2zwIbnRKv4wtNEFM
When he was with AK.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlntGqRgcBU
Michael.
AgentG
Joined: December 21, 2008
KitMaker: 1,109 posts
Armorama: 1,095 posts
Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 07:11 PM UTC
George, always keep in mind you are modeling a tank. It is big, heavy and imposing. It sits in the open where the elements and crew activity wear the upper surfaces. Operations wear the tracks and wheels.
You need to convey that sense of heaviness and mass. Exposed metal and chipping is part of it but IMHO, usually overdone. Paint fading, scratches and stains are more common. Dust and mud on the suspension depending on where it is operated.
HTH
G
You need to convey that sense of heaviness and mass. Exposed metal and chipping is part of it but IMHO, usually overdone. Paint fading, scratches and stains are more common. Dust and mud on the suspension depending on where it is operated.
HTH
G
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 08:30 PM UTC
Suspension droop and track sag help create the illusion of mass. Minor adjustments to roadwheels and idler wheels will help get that 'heavy' feeling.
George587
Joined: September 06, 2016
KitMaker: 14 posts
Armorama: 11 posts
Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 08:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
It's called weathering. If you type "weathering" in the little search window at the top of the page you will get lots of results, tips, techniques, preferences and how to's. There are as many techniques out there as there are modellers. Start basic and work up. And it takes PRACTICE!! Get some cheap kits, ebay is a good source and use them. There are some good books out there that start out with the basics and take you to the advanced. Be warned. This is not something you pick up overnight. After more than 40 years I learn new stuff all the time.
It's called "Weathering"? I didn't know that.
I've built approx 100-120 armor models. If you google Wilbur Wright Trumpeter BR-52 you can get an idea on the images page.
I asked a very specific question and had hoped to avoid the nonsense one gets at the FineScale forum by coming here. I guess not.
Thanks to those of you giving reasonable replies to the question asked.
11Bravo_C2
Joined: May 12, 2015
KitMaker: 475 posts
Armorama: 394 posts
Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 09:21 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextIt's called weathering. If you type "weathering" in the little search window at the top of the page you will get lots of results, tips, techniques, preferences and how to's. There are as many techniques out there as there are modelers. Start basic and work up. And it takes PRACTICE!! Get some cheap kits, ebay is a good source and use them. There are some good books out there that start out with the basics and take you to the advanced. Be warned. This is not something you pick up overnight. After more than 40 years I learn new stuff all the time.
It's called "Weathering"? I didn't know that.
I've built approx 150 armor models. If you google Wilbur Wright Trumpeter BR-52 you can get an idea on the images page.
I asked a very specific question and had hoped to avoid the nonsense one gets at the FineScale forum by coming here. I guess not.
What non-sense do you speak of? You asked a question and have received many good answers. Weathering is an artistic method and no amount of responses on how to do it will help you achieve the results of the Jagdtiger modeler. Practice, practice, practice.
As suggested, do a youtube search for Mig Jimenez, Michael Rinaldi, and Adam Wilder to name a few. Adam Wilder has a series of videos that take you step-by-step on his finishing techniques to achieve a heavily weathered/used tank.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ9GDtkHYnVmc3b8ttF5cyh8MiOWZ-e33
All the above mentioned artists have several publications on the subject of weathering.
p.s. There is a lot of good folk and information on this board. Keep an open mind and have patience.
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Monday, July 31, 2017 - 09:31 PM UTC
We're not giving you nonsense, we're telling you where to look for your answer. You want us to tell you step by step how to do a thing and that's not going to happen. Search this site like I said to, start reading the results. The answer is there but yuo need to find it and not expect us to, once you find the answer, and the answer is going be what you like vs your skill, than you will be able to ask specific question. Not 'how do I do this' but 'I read this and tried it, it kinda worked but not quite so what did I do wrong'. Than we can answer your question. Or at least point you in the right direction. Also you need reference material, like the books and magazines. There are several that have how-to's on you subject.
Namabiiru
Associate Editor
#399
Joined: March 05, 2014
KitMaker: 2,888 posts
Armorama: 1,920 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 02:57 AM UTC
I think by "nonsense" he may have meant the rather condescending tone--intentional or unintentional--that can be detected in some (not all!) of the responses. It's generally a pretty friendly crowd here on KMN, but in online forums we don't have the benefit of hearing how our words might sound to someone who doesn't know what is in our mind.
IMHO, the simple, but probably not altogether helpful, answer to George's question is that there is no single technique used to achieve the results in that photo. It's going to be a combination of techniques that creates the depth and complexity to which I think George is referring when he says weight, and learning to apply those techniques effectively and in a balanced combination is something that doesn't lend itself to a simple answer.
The point made that mud and dust play a major role in the weathering process is valid; however, to say that a vehicle that emphasizes paint worn to bare metal is somehow not right is IMHO taking that point too far. Aesthetically, it is very appealing to some, and that is subjective. If every model produced was covered in mud and dust it would end up a pretty boring collection. I agree that the model in the photo was very well executed, and I like it. But that's just my opinion.
IMHO, the simple, but probably not altogether helpful, answer to George's question is that there is no single technique used to achieve the results in that photo. It's going to be a combination of techniques that creates the depth and complexity to which I think George is referring when he says weight, and learning to apply those techniques effectively and in a balanced combination is something that doesn't lend itself to a simple answer.
The point made that mud and dust play a major role in the weathering process is valid; however, to say that a vehicle that emphasizes paint worn to bare metal is somehow not right is IMHO taking that point too far. Aesthetically, it is very appealing to some, and that is subjective. If every model produced was covered in mud and dust it would end up a pretty boring collection. I agree that the model in the photo was very well executed, and I like it. But that's just my opinion.
11Bravo_C2
Joined: May 12, 2015
KitMaker: 475 posts
Armorama: 394 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 03:39 AM UTC
I re-read every post and didn't perceive any condescending tones.
The OP asked for OPINIONS. He got them.
The OP asked for OPINIONS. He got them.
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 03:40 AM UTC
It's not nonsense at all. There are articles, posts, how-to's all over this site covering years and techniques. All nicely worded, and rather than write a several thousand word reply on what he wants that may not cover everything we're telling him "hey, search the site!" the answer is there. A 30 minutes search, if that, and you will find what you need and several other things as well. And if you do find it hey, post the link maybe it's something we didn't read or would like to re-read. Also there are great books out there geared to this. Panzer Art and Mig Jimenez F.A.Q. 2 are great and you can watch Mig Jimenez Painting Master Class at IPMS Stockholm 2014 Day 1 and 2 on Youtube.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 04:24 AM UTC
I was a little confused about this posting, until I did as he said and looked at "Wilber Wright Trumpeter BR 52". This bring us to the FSM web page. I take it George is "Wilber Wright", since his FSM profile matches what he's said above. He's done a nice clean build of the BR 52 (although PB has deleted his images on the actual FSM website-- a problem most of you are experiencing here as well). I don't "Google" I use "Bing" and his photos come up there in the "Image"section with a link to the FSM blog. It doesnt look like there is much weathering on his BR 52, but all I can see at FSM are laudatory comments on his build-- I don't see any "nonsense" thier either. For the life of me, I don't see what "nonsense" he's referring to at either site. George buddy-- you need to be a little more clear on what you want and what you mean. Several folks have steered you in the right direction.
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
AgentG
Joined: December 21, 2008
KitMaker: 1,109 posts
Armorama: 1,095 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 08:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Suspension droop and track sag help create the illusion of mass. Minor adjustments to roadwheels and idler wheels will help get that 'heavy' feeling.
When I attach the suspension arms, I place the hull on a flat surface and put a ziplock bag full of coins inside. This gives the suspension a lower set and I believe, conveys a sense of weight.
G
Taylortony
Joined: November 30, 2010
KitMaker: 126 posts
Armorama: 102 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 01, 2017 - 06:48 PM UTC
These guides might help George
http://www.migjimenez.com/en/content/7-downloads-ammo-of-mig-jimenez
Back to the Jagdtiger he has used the burnishing well around the top of the turret to accentuate the thickness of the armour plate, thus giving it mass and depth that equates to the feeling of solidity and weight.
http://www.migjimenez.com/en/content/7-downloads-ammo-of-mig-jimenez
Back to the Jagdtiger he has used the burnishing well around the top of the turret to accentuate the thickness of the armour plate, thus giving it mass and depth that equates to the feeling of solidity and weight.
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