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CHALLENGER 2 IN URBAN CAM
Removed by original poster on 08/25/17 - 23:37:28 (GMT).
JSSVIII
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Posted: Friday, August 25, 2017 - 04:37 AM UTC
Max How sure are you about this? That may not be the best photo to work from, if you look at the patch of brown adjacent to the deck, below the starboard rear of the turret. That does not look to be the same color as the deck, it could be the lighting, or the quality of the photo of course, and I'm definitely no expert on the matter of Berlin camo colors (or any other for that matter!).
AKirchhoff
Germany
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Posted: Friday, August 25, 2017 - 03:34 PM UTC
Hi!
On the vehicles that I photographed for Tankograd "British Infantry Brigade Berlin" the decks were definively brown. The book covers all the types, but is unfortunately sold out.
Andreas Kirchhoff
On the vehicles that I photographed for Tankograd "British Infantry Brigade Berlin" the decks were definively brown. The book covers all the types, but is unfortunately sold out.
Andreas Kirchhoff
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, August 25, 2017 - 03:48 PM UTC
Quoted Text
That may not be the best photo to work from
Here's a better one
H.P.
JSSVIII
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Posted: Friday, August 25, 2017 - 05:44 PM UTC
Thank you guys, I really appreciate you taking the time to confirm that for me. Max, I was thinking about my earlier post, and I hope you were not offended, I did not mean to imply that you did not know what you were talking about, it was just that the photo did not really seem to confirm the color to me. What it DOES confirm now is that you should always cross reference your research!
maximus8425
England - North East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, August 25, 2017 - 05:54 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Max How sure are you about this? That may not be the best photo to work from, if you look at the patch of brown adjacent to the deck, below the starboard rear of the turret. That does not look to be the same color as the deck, it could be the lighting, or the quality of the photo of course, and I'm definitely no expert on the matter of Berlin camo colors (or any other for that matter!).
I saw 14th/20th Hussars Chieftains in Smuts Barracks when we sent a replacement Squadron to Berlin so they could come down to Hohne for firing camp. The decks were definately brown and no offence taken, sometimes pictures don't show everything and it takes someone who was there to confirm things. Even Takom's Mk10 instructions have you paint the decks green. I would imagine they have taken pictures of a Mk10 painted to look like a Berlin Chieftain.
JSSVIII
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Posted: Friday, August 25, 2017 - 06:25 PM UTC
Thanks Max.
retiredyank
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Posted: Sunday, August 27, 2017 - 05:39 PM UTC
I'm soon to start on a Chally 2, with enhanced armor. Would this pattern be appropriate?
bison126
Correze, France
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Posted: Sunday, August 27, 2017 - 06:42 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Isn't this camo used by one of the training formations of the French Army specializing in urban warfare?
The camo on the AMX 10 RC and the VBL was experimental and never adopted by the French army.
The camo used in the Urban warfare training center is the one of the AMX 30 Brennus. Be aware that it is not painted over all the AMX 30 Brennus so you need to check the registration plate before applying this camo to a kit.
Olivier
Scarred
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Posted: Monday, September 11, 2017 - 08:45 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextMax How sure are you about this? That may not be the best photo to work from, if you look at the patch of brown adjacent to the deck, below the starboard rear of the turret. That does not look to be the same color as the deck, it could be the lighting, or the quality of the photo of course, and I'm definitely no expert on the matter of Berlin camo colors (or any other for that matter!).
I saw 14th/20th Hussars Chieftains in Smuts Barracks when we sent a replacement Squadron to Berlin so they could come down to Hohne for firing camp. The decks were definately brown and no offence taken, sometimes pictures don't show everything and it takes someone who was there to confirm things. Even Takom's Mk10 instructions have you paint the decks green. I would imagine they have taken pictures of a Mk10 painted to look like a Berlin Chieftain.
I just read an article in Military Modelling International, March 2016 and it stated the engine decks were green, and there are pictures showing green decks and one picture showing the deck painted in Berlin camo.
Invincible
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Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 01:35 AM UTC
Perhaps the painting of the engine deck was a matter of preference by the crew- some chose brown, some chose to stay green, some Camouflaged
maximus8425
England - North East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 02:21 AM UTC
All vehicles of the same type were painted the same scheme. The exact same colours in the same places. This was so individual vehicles could not be identified and therefore a count of how much armour was actually in Berlin. If you google Berlin Brigade armour and find the parade pictures you will see Chieftains, CVR(W)Fox and 432's all in the same patterns.
Scarred
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Posted: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 - 04:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
All vehicles of the same type were painted the same scheme. The exact same colours in the same places. This was so individual vehicles could not be identified and therefore a count of how much armour was actually in Berlin. If you google Berlin Brigade armour and find the parade pictures you will see Chieftains, CVR(W)Fox and 432's all in the same patterns.
If you believe that anyone in Berlin was fooled by camo on how many tanks there were in the city then you are sorely mistaken. There was also the agreement of how many tanks could be in the city, how many soldiers could be in the city. Plus since the camo was unique the soviets knew there was a max number of what, 16 Chieftains in the city? About the same number of M60's and AMX30's. We were in a fish bowl. The Soviet were our ALLIES. We saluted them when we saw their officers, mainly in our PX, and gave them the greeting of the day. They could go on any kasern without hindrance, except ours. They'd come in riding in their blacked out diplomatic Mercedes and we'd block the cars with our bodies, standing in front of and behind and blocking the doors with our backs to it to keep them from getting our pictures. They'd always catch me on the way to the chow hall. The MP's would then escort them off base. Couldn't arrest them or take the film from their cameras. They could walk by the fence of the kasern, and take pictures of all the equipment, and personnel, they wanted including bumper numbers. The soviets took over Spandau prison every four months to guard Hess and the british armor motor pool was right there. There were no secrets in Berlin. The stupidest thing I saw tho, was when we went to East Berlin we went in dress greens and you removed your name tag, all soldiers did. If you were from my unit you also removed your branch insignia and unit crests. That was a dead give away. I could always see, in my mind, the Stasi and the KGB looking for the soldiers with their uniforms stripped and saying "those guys must be intelligence because they sure ain't intelligent".
JokerJames
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Posted: Thursday, September 21, 2017 - 07:59 PM UTC
These tanks were painted at Bovington by myself and a colleague. The army have no choice to subcontract as David Cameron sold all the army work bases in his austerity cull. The decks are mainly brown but intercut with the white & grey for distortion. As a rule Chally decks stay pretty much free of engine oil & soot.
LeoCmdr
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Posted: Thursday, September 21, 2017 - 10:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
These tanks were painted at Bovington by myself and a colleague. The army have no choice to subcontract as David Cameron sold all the army work bases in his austerity cull. The decks are mainly brown but intercut with the white & grey for distortion. As a rule Chally decks stay pretty much free of engine oil & soot.
Would you happen to have the pattern template used to paint the Challengers?
JSSVIII
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Posted: Saturday, September 23, 2017 - 05:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Would you happen to have the pattern template used to paint the Challengers?
Fingers crossed the answer is yes!
AKirchhoff
Germany
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Posted: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 - 01:38 AM UTC
Hi,
for all who wonder how the Berlin camouflage on Challenger 2 looks like from the top, here is a small video scene (which however is in a very low resulution) which shows the top (Time code 0:12):
https://twitter.com/ArmyCO1Mercian/status/923278144408342529
Here, an interesting side view with the dozer blade mounted:
https://twitter.com/josephhdempsey/status/899966179456016386
Best regards,
Andreas
for all who wonder how the Berlin camouflage on Challenger 2 looks like from the top, here is a small video scene (which however is in a very low resulution) which shows the top (Time code 0:12):
https://twitter.com/ArmyCO1Mercian/status/923278144408342529
Here, an interesting side view with the dozer blade mounted:
https://twitter.com/josephhdempsey/status/899966179456016386
Best regards,
Andreas
18Bravo
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Posted: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 - 01:56 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextAll vehicles of the same type were painted the same scheme. The exact same colours in the same places. This was so individual vehicles could not be identified and therefore a count of how much armour was actually in Berlin. If you google Berlin Brigade armour and find the parade pictures you will see Chieftains, CVR(W)Fox and 432's all in the same patterns.
If you believe that anyone in Berlin was fooled by camo on how many tanks there were in the city then you are sorely mistaken. There was also the agreement of how many tanks could be in the city, how many soldiers could be in the city. Plus since the camo was unique the soviets knew there was a max number of what, 16 Chieftains in the city? About the same number of M60's and AMX30's. We were in a fish bowl. The Soviet were our ALLIES. We saluted them when we saw their officers, mainly in our PX, and gave them the greeting of the day. They could go on any kasern without hindrance, except ours. They'd come in riding in their blacked out diplomatic Mercedes and we'd block the cars with our bodies, standing in front of and behind and blocking the doors with our backs to it to keep them from getting our pictures. They'd always catch me on the way to the chow hall. The MP's would then escort them off base. Couldn't arrest them or take the film from their cameras. They could walk by the fence of the kasern, and take pictures of all the equipment, and personnel, they wanted including bumper numbers. The soviets took over Spandau prison every four months to guard Hess and the british armor motor pool was right there. There were no secrets in Berlin. The stupidest thing I saw tho, was when we went to East Berlin we went in dress greens and you removed your name tag, all soldiers did. If you were from my unit you also removed your branch insignia and unit crests. That was a dead give away. I could always see, in my mind, the Stasi and the KGB looking for the soldiers with their uniforms stripped and saying "those guys must be intelligence because they sure ain't intelligent".
Well, you can BOTH be right. Indeed the story we always got was that the tanks were identically painted for intelligence reasons. Although the true number fooled no one, there were other reasons, tracking routes, AO's, etc... And although they were supposed to be identical, they were not, as this photo clearly shows.
As for US forces (and Patrick, you must have been there a long time to have seen Hess and three color camo) all of our vehicles were OD green, and during manouvers we usually covered up bumper numbers with sand bags, sape, or both.
Scarred
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Posted: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 - 07:22 AM UTC
I was there when Ronnie gave his famous "Mr Gorbachev tear down this wall in June 87 and Hess died 2 months later. 40th armor's tanks were green and very shiny, I was wrong about that, I don't know if they ever brought M1's into the city tho Turner Barrack was some distance from Andrews. We didn't get M16A2's until fall of 88. Our unit was always the last to get new gear. They weren't real concerned with Berlin Brigade's fighting ability or they would have stationed M1's and Bradleys there and lots more of them but when you found out what was arrayed around the city, you'd realize any resistance would have been futile.
AKirchhoff
Germany
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Posted: Friday, April 27, 2018 - 01:40 AM UTC
Hi!
Here are 2 shots from Challenger II in urban "Berlin" camouflage. Colours are heavily worn after some months...
https://www.facebook.com/RoyalTankRegt/photos/pcb.801558566710344/801771210022413/?type=3&theater
(click "+3")
https://www.facebook.com/RoyalTankRegt/photos/pcb.800666603466207/800666136799587/?type=3&theater
Andreas
BTW, for everyone who might have missed it: The Tankograd book on British Infantry Brigade Berlin is reprinted and available again!
Here are 2 shots from Challenger II in urban "Berlin" camouflage. Colours are heavily worn after some months...
https://www.facebook.com/RoyalTankRegt/photos/pcb.801558566710344/801771210022413/?type=3&theater
(click "+3")
https://www.facebook.com/RoyalTankRegt/photos/pcb.800666603466207/800666136799587/?type=3&theater
Andreas
BTW, for everyone who might have missed it: The Tankograd book on British Infantry Brigade Berlin is reprinted and available again!