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Scarred
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 - 02:52 AM UTC

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As for myself - I have stopped building WW2 german subjects (okay, dead germans/destroyed tanks are okay) AND would not get near some german modelling clubs because some german modellers are a bit "tooo conservative" to put it politely.

I AM planning to build a Tiger (perferable an egg style one) with pig squad crew as soon as I can find out where to get lower halfs with high heels and suspenders for the crew. And pink colors. Definitly pink colors for the tank.



The modelers I've never understood are the ones who only build WWII German subjects. They will not build WWII British, French, or American vehicles unless they are captured vehicles used by the Germans that have had German markings added.



Many of our fellow humans have a fascination for the bad/evil/threatening/dangerous. Why do bad news and scandals sell a lot more newspapers than good news?
/ Robin



Well, Germany had the most diverse amount of equipment. They U.S. had everything Sherman based or vary little variety to make it easier to build such numbers but the Germans were coming out with something new all the time. All different, all interesting. You build one Sherman you built them all. Kidding on the Sherman remark.
tatbaqui
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Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 - 03:03 AM UTC

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As for myself - I have stopped building WW2 german subjects (okay, dead germans/destroyed tanks are okay) AND would not get near some german modelling clubs because some german modellers are a bit "tooo conservative" to put it politely.

I AM planning to build a Tiger (perferable an egg style one) with pig squad crew as soon as I can find out where to get lower halfs with high heels and suspenders for the crew. And pink colors. Definitly pink colors for the tank.



The modelers I've never understood are the ones who only build WWII German subjects. They will not build WWII British, French, or American vehicles unless they are captured vehicles used by the Germans that have had German markings added.



In my case, I like them. Simple as that.
mmeier
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Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 - 03:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text


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As for myself - I have stopped building WW2 german subjects (okay, dead germans/destroyed tanks are okay) AND would not get near some german modelling clubs because some german modellers are a bit "tooo conservative" to put it politely.

I AM planning to build a Tiger (perferable an egg style one) with pig squad crew as soon as I can find out where to get lower halfs with high heels and suspenders for the crew. And pink colors. Definitly pink colors for the tank.



The modelers I've never understood are the ones who only build WWII German subjects. They will not build WWII British, French, or American vehicles unless they are captured vehicles used by the Germans that have had German markings added.



Many of our fellow humans have a fascination for the bad/evil/threatening/dangerous. Why do bad news and scandals sell a lot more newspapers than good news?
/ Robin



Well, Germany had the most diverse amount of equipment. They U.S. had everything Sherman based or vary little variety to make it easier to build such numbers but the Germans were coming out with something new all the time. All different, all interesting. You build one Sherman you built them all. Kidding on the Sherman remark.



The Brits and French had quite a few types as well
jon_a_its
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Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 - 04:43 PM UTC
This is and probably always be a difficult subject, but should be civilly and calmly discussed.

The past should not be ignored, but needn't be glorified.

I personally choose not to build WW2 German armour, mostly because I can't paint it!

I don't build aircraft with swakistas either.
My choice, influenced by spending a lot of time with Germans in Dresden, (former E. Germany) where the AFD is an issue, because they distort history and facts, to support an extreme ideology, exactly like the Nazis did.

Note: I write that the AFD are using the same methods for the same reasons as the Nazis did.
They are not Nazis, but Neo-Fashists, which is different, yea, right!

Also as a kid, I worked for my German grandad near Braunlage (former W Germany). He had been conscripted at 13-14 into the Volksturm, those that declined were shot on the spot by the SS.

I could later have worked for a hotelier, but chose to return to my folks in the UK.
The Hotelier was a Former SS Major, who also legally hosted the Waffen SS reunions.

He told me the fighting arms conscripts were err... conscripted, & they didn't have any choice in joining.

He did also tell me that the Political SS, who did the concentration camps and death-camp admin, were NOT invited or welcomed. They could apply for transfer from the politicals to the Waffen SS, but were then always sent to the eastern front.
long_tom
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Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 - 10:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

This is and probably always be a difficult subject, but should be civilly and calmly discussed.

The past should not be ignored, but needn't be glorified.

I personally choose not to build WW2 German armour, mostly because I can't paint it!

I don't build aircraft with swakistas either.
My choice, influenced by spending a lot of time with Germans in Dresden, (former E. Germany) where the AFD is an issue, because they distort history and facts, to support an extreme ideology, exactly like the Nazis did.

Note: I write that the AFD are using the same methods for the same reasons as the Nazis did.
They are not Nazis, but Neo-Fashists, which is different, yea, right!

Also as a kid, I worked for my German grandad near Braunlage (former W Germany). He had been conscripted at 13-14 into the Volksturm, those that declined were shot on the spot by the SS.

I could later have worked for a hotelier, but chose to return to my folks in the UK.
The Hotelier was a Former SS Major, who also legally hosted the Waffen SS reunions.

He told me the fighting arms conscripts were err... conscripted, & they didn't have any choice in joining.

He did also tell me that the Political SS, who did the concentration camps and death-camp admin, were NOT invited or welcomed. They could apply for transfer from the politicals to the Waffen SS, but were then always sent to the eastern front.


I read that in late-war Germany, the Waffen-SS were known as the "White SS" because they were fighting the enemy, while the "Black SS" was derided for being draft dodgers. The Allgemeine-SS even had to ditch their black uniforms.
PzAufkl
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Posted: Wednesday, September 06, 2017 - 11:44 PM UTC
All those complaining about or derising German laws that interdict public use of Nazi symbols, be informed that these sections were inserted into the German Penal Code by the “Allied Control Council for Germany“ soon after the war.

That council seems to have seen a need for them.
Mrclark7
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 12:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Questions: Are we looking for conspiracies where none exist? IF this were true, why would it be limited to a single incident in Chinese history? IF this notion were true, why are model companies producing German & Russian afvs in mass quantities, since both countries have questionable episodes related to human rights in their past? IF this were true, many 1/35 kits of rail cars of WWII vintage would also disappear, so no one might be tempted to portray a Holocaust scene. The issue on swastikas is just that; the symbol has been outlawed, not the model that may have displayed that symbol. Come on, people!



sooo, I am just curious if there is a follow up to this thought process.
long_tom
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 12:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text


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Questions: Are we looking for conspiracies where none exist? IF this were true, why would it be limited to a single incident in Chinese history? IF this notion were true, why are model companies producing German & Russian afvs in mass quantities, since both countries have questionable episodes related to human rights in their past? IF this were true, many 1/35 kits of rail cars of WWII vintage would also disappear, so no one might be tempted to portray a Holocaust scene. The issue on swastikas is just that; the symbol has been outlawed, not the model that may have displayed that symbol. Come on, people!



sooo, I am just curious if there is a follow up to this thought process.


Note that there is very little portrayal of Imperial Japanese subjects.

Also, Paracel is not modelling anything ARVN. Presumably it is genuinely illegal for them to do that.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 12:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text


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Questions: Are we looking for conspiracies where none exist? IF this were true, why would it be limited to a single incident in Chinese history? IF this notion were true, why are model companies producing German & Russian afvs in mass quantities, since both countries have questionable episodes related to human rights in their past? IF this were true, many 1/35 kits of rail cars of WWII vintage would also disappear, so no one might be tempted to portray a Holocaust scene. The issue on swastikas is just that; the symbol has been outlawed, not the model that may have displayed that symbol. Come on, people!



sooo, I am just curious if there is a follow up to this thought process.


Note that there is very little portrayal of Imperial Japanese subjects.

Also, Paracel is not modelling anything ARVN. Presumably it is genuinely illegal for them to do that.



Another thing: The Swedish armed forces have been more or less ignored. There is the CV-90 and it's derivatives used by other countries but that is presumably only because these variants are used by some NATO countries. HobbyBoss issued the Strv 122 and Trumpeter have the Strv S but where are all the other vehicles? Plenty of softskins, quite a large variety of tanks from the early 1920'ies and onwards. Gun carriers and APC's built on obsolete tank chassis, the Bandkanon 1 (tracked cannon), a tracked SP howitzer which was quite innovative for its time. The Swedish Navy has been completely ignored. It's a little better with the airforce but there are LOTS of aircraft missing. How about that for a political correctness conspiracy? The same goes for Switzerland. "No! We can't make anything Swiss because that illojal country assists and supports tax evaders. We would never be able to sell those kits."
How about French stuff? It's only the last few years that anyone except Heller has been providing French tanks. There were lots of different types. Take that for a conspiracy.

Why would Paracel do ARVN? If they focus on the local market it could just be that they produce what they think will sell the most. It's a marketing thing. Why is their Modern Series almost only SAA/FSA? Why do they have Zombie figures? Has it got something to do with Vietnamese cooking? Fish sauce is useful but all the other stuff? Why don't they have any native americans or eskimoes? Why do they have a few US soldiers? Why are there almost no ice-cream vendors on the streets during the winter? A conspiracy by the anti-sugar lobby?
Why does my butt hurt if I sit too long on a pointy rock? A clever marketing ploy by the cushion producers lobby?

Why haven't Bronco removed the Type 63-2 from their online catalogue yet? Is it a conspiracy to try and fool us westerners into believing that the Chines Communist Party is not trying to erase the memory of Tiananmen massacre.
Have the Chinese authorities banned the word 'massacre' from the chinese internet access yet?
Why hasn't the rest of the world started adding a little snippet of text about the Tiananmen massacre into every web-page, tweet, FB-update, forum post et.c so that the Chinese people realise that there is something strange going on when all their internet queries return nothing?
Why is there so much lint in my navel?
Why are there so many people obsessed with political conspiracies? Should the native americans have built a wall along the coasts 500 years ago to keep out all the immigrants? Why am I writing this? Am I a conspiracy by the Chinese ruling class, created as a subversive means to undermine Your sanity? Who knows .... So many useless questions ...
/ Robin
Mrclark7
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 01:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


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Questions: Are we looking for conspiracies where none exist? IF this were true, why would it be limited to a single incident in Chinese history? IF this notion were true, why are model companies producing German & Russian afvs in mass quantities, since both countries have questionable episodes related to human rights in their past? IF this were true, many 1/35 kits of rail cars of WWII vintage would also disappear, so no one might be tempted to portray a Holocaust scene. The issue on swastikas is just that; the symbol has been outlawed, not the model that may have displayed that symbol. Come on, people!



sooo, I am just curious if there is a follow up to this thought process.


Note that there is very little portrayal of Imperial Japanese subjects.

Also, Paracel is not modelling anything ARVN. Presumably it is genuinely illegal for them to do that.



Another thing: The Swedish armed forces have been more or less ignored. There is the CV-90 and it's derivatives used by other countries but that is presumably only because these variants are used by some NATO countries. HobbyBoss issued the Strv 122 and Trumpeter have the Strv S but where are all the other vehicles? Plenty of softskins, quite a large variety of tanks from the early 1920'ies and onwards. Gun carriers and APC's built on obsolete tank chassis, the Bandkanon 1 (tracked cannon), a tracked SP howitzer which was quite innovative for its time. The Swedish Navy has been completely ignored. It's a little better with the airforce but there are LOTS of aircraft missing. How about that for a political correctness conspiracy? The same goes for Switzerland. "No! We can't make anything Swiss because that illojal country assists and supports tax evaders. We would never be able to sell those kits."
How about French stuff? It's only the last few years that anyone except Heller has been providing French tanks. There were lots of different types. Take that for a conspiracy.

Why would Paracel do ARVN? If they focus on the local market it could just be that they produce what they think will sell the most. It's a marketing thing. Why is their Modern Series almost only SAA/FSA? Why do they have Zombie figures? Has it got something to do with Vietnamese cooking? Fish sauce is useful but all the other stuff? Why don't they have any native americans or eskimoes? Why do they have a few US soldiers? Why are there almost no ice-cream vendors on the streets during the winter? A conspiracy by the anti-sugar lobby?
Why does my butt hurt if I sit too long on a pointy rock? A clever marketing ploy by the cushion producers lobby?

Why haven't Bronco removed the Type 63-2 from their online catalogue yet? Is it a conspiracy to try and fool us westerners into believing that the Chines Communist Party is not trying to erase the memory of Tiananmen massacre.
Have the Chinese authorities banned the word 'massacre' from the chinese internet access yet?
Why hasn't the rest of the world started adding a little snippet of text about the Tiananmen massacre into every web-page, tweet, FB-update, forum post et.c so that the Chinese people realise that there is something strange going on when all their internet queries return nothing?
Why is there so much lint in my navel?
Why are there so many people obsessed with political conspiracies? Should the native americans have built a wall along the coasts 500 years ago to keep out all the immigrants? Why am I writing this? Am I a conspiracy by the Chinese ruling class, created as a subversive means to undermine Your sanity? Who knows .... So many useless questions ...
/ Robin



Have the Chinese authorities banned the word 'massacre' from the chinese internet access yet?

Yes. But I show you this not to argue with ya. There seems to be western thinking on a eastern issue that has less "talking" about because of censors.


Curiously, I looking over current Tamiya catalog and see no Nazi emblem craft. Or am I missing something. back in 81', I do remember it different, or was it a different brand. maybe, but I was brand loyal to Tamiya even back then.

Is this a bad time to ask if I should build this with a nazi symbol?



Totally joking, hopefully we can get back to our modeling and enjoying the site.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 01:19 AM UTC
That toon tank would be cool with a swastika and some pigs as crew ;-)
Maybe some set of 1:35 farm animals have got something useful.
Maybe just pig heads and Waffen-SS uniforms?
/ Robin
jphillips
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 01:20 AM UTC
I wish Paracel would produce some ARVN stuff, unless it's not permitted there. The aftermarket isn't exactly flooded with ARVN figures and stowage.
long_tom
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 03:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I wish Paracel would produce some ARVN stuff, unless it's not permitted there. The aftermarket isn't exactly flooded with ARVN figures and stowage.


I'm assuming it's not permitted there.
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 04:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Also, Paracel is not modelling anything ARVN. Presumably it is genuinely illegal for them to do that.




Quoted Text

I'm assuming it's not permitted there.



Based upon what, exactly? Company A is located in country B and does not make models of C. Ergo, the only possible explanation is that the government of B has banned A from acknowledging C? Is that the type of logic and evidence this is all based upon?

This is ridiculous.

KL
SgtRam
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 05:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Also, Paracel is not modelling anything ARVN. Presumably it is genuinely illegal for them to do that.




Quoted Text

I'm assuming it's not permitted there.



Based upon what, exactly? Company A is located in country B and does not make models of C. Ergo, the only possible explanation is that the government of B has banned A from acknowledging C? Is that the type of logic and evidence this is all based upon?

This is ridiculous.

KL



Not ridiculous, how many companies do not include swastika's in aircraft kits?
long_tom
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 07:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Also, Paracel is not modelling anything ARVN. Presumably it is genuinely illegal for them to do that.




Quoted Text

I'm assuming it's not permitted there.



Based upon what, exactly? Company A is located in country B and does not make models of C. Ergo, the only possible explanation is that the government of B has banned A from acknowledging C? Is that the type of logic and evidence this is all based upon?

This is ridiculous.

KL


Is it? Vietnam is not exactly a liberal Western democracy.
Bravo1102
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 10:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Also, Paracel is not modelling anything ARVN. Presumably it is genuinely illegal for them to do that.




Quoted Text

I'm assuming it's not permitted there.



Based upon what, exactly? Company A is located in country B and does not make models of C. Ergo, the only possible explanation is that the government of B has banned A from acknowledging C? Is that the type of logic and evidence this is all based upon?

This is ridiculous.

KL


Rather than being illegal it just be that the decision makers at a particular company just don't want to do it.

Why don't Chinese companies do Imperial Japanese? Some sort of national animus? How about Japanese companies SATURATING the market with their releases? Maybe Trumpeter wants to do the 1/350 And 1/700 scale ship's no one else does, like every freaking other navy in WW2 besides Japan.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 12:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Also, Paracel is not modelling anything ARVN. Presumably it is genuinely illegal for them to do that.




Quoted Text

I'm assuming it's not permitted there.



Based upon what, exactly? Company A is located in country B and does not make models of C. Ergo, the only possible explanation is that the government of B has banned A from acknowledging C? Is that the type of logic and evidence this is all based upon?

This is ridiculous.

KL


Is it? Vietnam is not exactly a liberal Western democracy.



How about this Tom, I'll give you a little quiz. Nothing difficult. A person with your insights into conspiracies and hidden agendas around the world will figure this out in notime at all

A few basic facts
1.Sweden is a liberal western democracy (although some Alt-Right believers would call us socialist).

2. There is a fair number of model builders in Sweden, let's say less than 10% of the population (total population somewhere close to 9 millions, peace activists included).

3. There is not one single company producing styrene (or even resin) kits of Swedish armoured vehicles. One single resin kit of a softskin truck has been released. No ships. A few aircraft models have been made with Swedish involvement but the styrene pressings have been done abroad.

Now the big question to You and I'll give you two alternatives to make it really simple (a lot simpler than finding the Type 63-2 in Broncos online catalogue, a trivial task at which you failed mightily to say the least).

Is it because:

1. Nobody thinks that it is economically viable? Or in simple words: Don't think they can make money out of it because the market in Sweden is simply to small.

2. There is a secret ban enforced by our governments (all of which are different varieties of liberals/leftists/socialists/environmentalists/anti fossil fuel activists). They have forbidden production of all and any kinds of model representations of capitalist-imperialist tools of war. Especially if these models are produced with energy and/or raw materials derived from fossil fuel.

What do you think Tom? Is it alternative 1 or 2?

The infrastructure for pressing styrene exists so lack of infrastructure can't be the root cause. I have been peripherally involved in producing H0 gauge passenger cars so I know this for a fact.

Hmm, number 1 or number 2 ? No stress, take your time.

/ Robin
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 01:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Also, Paracel is not modelling anything ARVN. Presumably it is genuinely illegal for them to do that.




Quoted Text

I'm assuming it's not permitted there.



Based upon what, exactly? Company A is located in country B and does not make models of C. Ergo, the only possible explanation is that the government of B has banned A from acknowledging C? Is that the type of logic and evidence this is all based upon?

This is ridiculous.

KL


Rather than being illegal it just be that the decision makers at a particular company just don't want to do it.

Why don't Chinese companies do Imperial Japanese? Some sort of national animus? How about Japanese companies SATURATING the market with their releases? Maybe Trumpeter wants to do the 1/350 And 1/700 scale ship's no one else does, like every freaking other navy in WW2 besides Japan.



Don't forget that some Imperial Japanese stuff is being made by Chinese companies:
Dragon 6044, 5028, CH5107, 6678, 6712, 6770, 6854, 6777
This one is even labeled 'North China'

there is more stuff in 1:72 from Dragon and that's only one of the Chinese manufacturers ...

If we include modern stuff there is ships and armour by Trumpeter, some of them done in cooperation with the 'old enemy'.
/ Robin
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 01:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Also, Paracel is not modelling anything ARVN. Presumably it is genuinely illegal for them to do that.




Quoted Text

I'm assuming it's not permitted there.



Based upon what, exactly? Company A is located in country B and does not make models of C. Ergo, the only possible explanation is that the government of B has banned A from acknowledging C? Is that the type of logic and evidence this is all based upon?

This is ridiculous.

KL


Is it? Vietnam is not exactly a liberal Western democracy.



First you tried to prove a point using Bronco as example. This failed miserably.
Now it's time to use a small resin caster in Vietnam? They have a business to run and will choose the easiest and most efficient way to make money. They could make dead ARVN soldiers, freshly shot to pieces by the victorious PLA but they apparently think that other subjects will be more profitable (like zombies feasting on corpses).
/ Robin
Bravo1102
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 01:48 PM UTC
Damn you Robin! Stop using facts and evidence to disrupt my belief system!

KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 06:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Not ridiculous, how many companies do not include swastika's in aircraft kits?



Many, but the reasons for that are well documented. What I claimed as ridiculous is the utterly superficial and illogical process the OP went through to reach a conclusion based on absolutely nothing but the absence of a subject from a particular company. And that comes after being shown that his original conspiracy theory about a banned kit was without basis because the kit in question was still available!.

KL
U-mark
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 06:54 PM UTC
There is an interesting story on : Warisboring.com titled; I'm not a Nazi-I just like the Uniform. It kind of ties in with some of the discussion here. Check it out if you like.
obg153
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 06:56 PM UTC
The initial post suggested that because some kit/s had suddenly "disappeared" from Bronco's catalog, some shadowy "deep state" entity sent word to Bronco to stop selling those kits because of potentially bad PR. As Robin has easily shown, those kits can still be obtained. And as Kurt pointed out, it's likely nothing more than normal marketing decisions. And again with the swastikas? If they're not included in a kit, it's because those companies recognize & abide by the laws of the country where their kits are being sold. No different than many other goods/products. If you want to sell your product here/there, it has to meet certain standards. I just think that too many folks are willing to jump on the Hannity/Limbaugh bandwagon and believe that descendants of the Knights Templar, Illuminati, Masons, et.al., are secretly manipulating everything.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, September 07, 2017 - 07:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

...and believe that descendants of the Knights Templar, Illuminati, Masons, et.al., are secretly manipulating everything.


You may not have realised it yet but We Are,
manipulating everything I mean.
Just because You haven't realised yet.
Mwahahahahahaha !