Ola People

Funny discussion this is I will join in too.

I will first quote a modeler named Gerard Deygas about what he had written in the Book Armour conversion and detailing from Finescalemodeler.


Now my question is... Why do they never say that about the Russian, Allied, Modern.

My idea of the answer to this question is: It`s all about the design. The german Armor was so well designed during the whole war. Almost all the vehicles had variants and between those variant were some really nice or Extraordinaire stuff. I`m not saying that the Allied did not do conversions but simply the German stuff looked better.
It´s all about the design. Let´s do a test. and see what you like


Now Don`t laugh but the car on top was called the Lada Turbo and the other car can be recognized as the Ferrari Testarossa Even though most of the people do not have the money to ever buy a testarossa Still everybody rather see a ferrari then a Lada.
Now I hear all the US builders and Shemanoholics saying that you cannot compare a Sherman with a Lada and I`m not doing that I`m only talking of what people prefer more to see.
For the same reason go to Burgerking and instead of getting your Normal "Big King XXL" You get an overall Blue "Big King XXL" Would you eat it????
The Complete German army From Luftwaffe to der Kriegsmarine was so well designed. It was already said by Sgirty. From top to toes the German Soldier always looked good. Equipment, Weapons, Uniforms they simply look intriguing. and they made some really revolutionairy stuff. Look at the STG44

We still know that Weapon. Be it a bit modified but the design simply is the same. now known as the AK 47:

Talking about good design. A lot of the Camo Patterns invented by the germans are still in service. Again be it a bit modified.

What also counts is that the Propaganda of the germans raised the German Armor to a high level. Numerous stories are written down by war correspondents about some brave stuff the Germans did. Rommel in Africa with his corps wich came known to the World as the Ghost division, Micheal Wittmann at Villers A Bocage where he almost singlehandedly destroyed a complete collone of tanks. I`m not so much into Allied armor but I like to read WW2 History and I don`t know any heroic story about Allied Armor while on the other hand the Germans satisfy the need for heroic stories. I`m definately not supporting any Nazi ideology and I simply hate the Dumb headed Neo Nazi`s here on the Planet.

I think that most of the samples above are the reason for many to built German Armor instead of Allied, Russian or Modern Armor. And though many people think the manufacturers don`t listen to them I think they do and the manufacturer sees that the Biggest market all around the world is for German Armor. And I`ll tell you guys a story. The Scalemodel manufacturers are profit companies (Most of them I`m talking bout the big guys here) and they work for their Wallet. So they make what will give the biggest credit.

This is my idea/explanation of this discussion. I`m ready to debate in this. If somebody thinks I`m wrong on this let`s hear it. I`m looking forward to the Discussion

hey rob,

excellent points there, but about your comment about the heroic stories,

there are just as many stories about allied soldiers, but due to the fascination with german stuff they get overshadowed. just a few names;
audie murphy,
john baskeyfield,
fusilier jefferson,
look up these guys and you will see what i mean.

and the AK-47 is not the same as the sturmgewehr, they may look very alike but the operation of the weapons is different. when they were designing the AK its obvious they studied the STG44, but its not a copy by any means

cheers

joe

Ola Joe

I actually know the Story of Audie Murphy but that was because there was a stunning 1:16 dio about him standing in the Hobbyshop I regularly visit. The story was that he managed to get his hands on a MG42 and went down all the Fox Holes on the beach where he landed to singlehandedly clear all of them. He was IIRC the highest Awarded soldier of WW2 (I might be wrong about that. I believe there is even a movie of him??
I will check out the names you gave up but sadly I don`t know one of them besides Audie Murphy at the moment.



I have a small essay about the Man Kalasjnikov himself with extracts of a Interview with the man. He claims in that Interview that he took the STG 44 and made it better. Sure it is not the same weapon but you can clearly see where it came from.

I have a small essay about the Man Kalasjnikov himself with extracts of a Interview with the man. He claims in that Interview that he took the STG 44 and made it better. Sure it is not the same weapon but you can clearly see where it came from.

[/quote]

hmm thats odd, i saw a documentary on discovery with him, where he stringently denyed that he copied the design. it did explain that the AK has a very different system of operation though

curious he would say one thing then another. he was pretty old on the programme i saw, so might be a bit #:-)

cheers

joe

Wow,
This topic never seems to die regardless or which site you visit. First the availability of kits is based on modeler demand. I build mainly WWII and Modern Armor. I think that the German stuff is endless in variations, where in the Allied side, I guess you could build every version of the sherman. Now, on modern subjects its a different story. My2Cents.

Tanks Out
Andy

Good topic! Here's my two cents...

Figures. I know that I would build more allied stuff if there was a larger aray of good figures to spruce up the Allied vehicles that make it to the shelves of the hobby shop.
There are German figures of every campaign and front of the war, and they really add to the variety of modeling topics to choose from. Allied figures just seem harder to come by.


Also, Vodnik...that's a good point I've been thinking about for awhile. My grandfather fought against the German tanks that I've been building, and my grandma actually said that a Stuka I built looked just like the ones that bombed the railroad 2 miles from her house in Belgium.

As long as everyone is in the hobby, and having fun with it it's cool with me, and should be encouraged! There were honorable and heroic men and women on all sides, I just wish there were more allied troop kits around to represent them.

That's not quite true. Here in Indiana, we have a brand new museum. It's called the "WWII Victory Museum" . The guy who owns it bought it from Belgium. It has two or three 251's, Patton's Command Jeep, etc. Say, go to the "Forums Search" and type in "You gotta see this!" It has a list of everything in the museum. It would help a lot of people if they just lived in Indiana! Thanks for your time.

the germans had more stuff.
and they had all kind of verisons of tanks,
so thats cool to build i love ww2 german amor
but i do build use stufff and russia stuff

here you go gents, for anyone who thinks germans had more versions

http://www.ciar.org/ttk/mbt/sherman.2.MediumTanksM4.html

this site has every variant of the sherman covered.

you might notice theres a few of them

cheers

joe

My god, this is a huge thread!!
Well, like alot of people here, I just build German Armour, although I have some Russian kits waiting to do as well. I can't add much more than what's already been said, the German vehicles just appeal to me, and if it's something that you like to do, go with it. I can't stand modern stuff, it all looks the same to me, a Leopard, Abrams, whatever. Allied WW2, well, I'm not the biggest of sherman fans, not too many variants there, but man, some of the whacky, oddball designs the Germans made, it's enough to keep you going well into your golden years! :-) And me being of Polish heritage, the last thing I should be building is German stuff, my Grandfather would kick my Butt! (he served in a Polish regiment against Germany)

Thanks to all who posted to my original thought. From all that I have seen, most of you enjoy WW2 German armor over modern. That much is clear. Thanks to all who replied.

Perhaps I should have ended my first comments with the words:

"Rounds out"

Maybe in the US the preponderance of movies are from the allied point of view and the fact that more original equipment is still in action which influences the US market. I mean we see A Bridge Too Far and hardly any German equipment is authentic. While the XXX Corp was not true to the real XXX Corp they did do a nice job assembling as many Shermies as possible.

Oh Yeah? Well, according to "The German Army, 1933-1945" (Matthew Cooper, 1978)

Well, I have carpal tunnel now,so I can't type too much longer. Thanks for your time.

I like it all. Allied or Axis, whatever catches my eye is what I build.

the ideas expressed in other posts are, in my opinion, correct in that the Germans had so many varients of all of their armour and tracks that it makes more choices for the armor modeling public.

And they really do look cool! :-)

Not sure what you could learn about Audie Murphy in a diorama, but he was the most decorated American soldier of World War II, including the Medal of Honor. When he came back from the war, he wrote a book called "To Hell and Back" which was subsequently turned into a movie starring -- guess who? -- Audie Murphy as himself. After that, he made lots of westerns and did a particularly good performance in the screen version of Stephen Crane's Civil War classic, "The Red Badge of Courage."

Find out more than you probably ever wanted to know about Audie Murphy here: http://www.audiemurphy.com/

Read his Medal of Honor citation here: http://www.audiemurphy.com/citation.htm

As far as Audie Murphy is concerned, many sources actually list Matt Urban as the most decorated American soldier from WW2, while other sources say they had the same number of decorations. I guess the dispute stems from disagreements over which decorations should be included in the final tally. Any way you slice it, both men displayed tremendous bravery in battle.

I believe the mystique of German militaria comes from their inovativness in tactics, armour design, and camouflage techniques, combined with quality. Granted, the Panther/Tigerll design was lifted from the T-34, which was in turn lifted from the American Christie design. The quality of their later tanks, if the production wasn't so complicated and expensive, would have made them the best tanks of WWll. The 88, for instance, could take out a JSll at maximum range even before the Soviet 122 was within firing range. The Germans didn't lose from mediocrity, they lost because they were out-gunned. The Russians were turning out at least 50 tanks for every Panther. Russian production was shabby and hasty compared to German, but mass-production was what counted and what did it matter if one Panther or Tiger took out 15 or 20 T-34's; the Russians had 100 more to take their place, the Germans had none. Similarly on the Western front, one on one a Sherman had no chance against a Panther, and routinely it took 3 or 4 Shermans in a concerted flanking attack to take out a single Panther/Tiger. Post-war, some European countries continued to produce and use German designed vehicles. German design influenced Western armour. And especially their comouflage (someone said German camouflage was so varied because none of it worked!) was copied by both Western and Eastern Post-War Europe (both Wehrmacht and SS patterns). Recent German camouflage ( tarnfleck, I think) was very close to SS patterns and was rejected by the Dutch military as 'looking too agressive'!
Even the modern NATO patten bears a very close resemblance to SS.
For all the evil the Nazi political system was responsible for, it left a legacy of military influence which endures in modern armies.
I may be wrong or I may be right, but this is my opinion.

Ughhh????????????? This may sound a bit "Beavis and Buttheadish" but, I just think the German stuff looks cool! Ever since I was a teenie weenie plastic beenie I just thought the German armor and softskin stuff was neat. The Shep Paine diorama sheets in the Monogram kits and the Tamiya box artwork were enough to entice me to the "dark side"!
Now my interests have evolved some in the meantime, I really love US WWII and British WWII stuff now....especially US Tank destryers and British Armor.
But....my first love will always be the Deutsche stuff!
Like woody Allen said " The X-acto wants...what the X-acto wants!"

Later,
Bodeen

Well heres my two pennys worth ,german armour where do i start ,tiger 1 the best looking tank ever to grace the world,panther,king tiger,jagdpanther the list goes on.More dioramas are built using german tanks and infantry as its proved that if you put two dioramas together at any modeling venue,one was of a sherman the other say a tiger with crew at rest i know which one will attract the most attention,dont get me wrong allied tanks are great there just not as good as german armour.well it dont matter what tank you model we all enjoy modeling ,so happy modeling to you all!!!!!

I myself have alot of books on ww2 german armor, there were so many variants and so many vehicals that it offers variety to alot of people, and i dont know if anyone has mentioned this, but german armor just looks cool! Also what might influence you is reading about all the german tank aces, some claiming 20+ tanks in one fight!
Where as a Sherman ( no offence ) looks like a few pieces of medal slapped togther and made for mass production, the average german tank was designed to last long and survive, each panther or tiger looks like a work of art
I think though that we are all happy that the final out come was the destruction of the Nazi Reich
( best possible weapons in the worst possible hands )

I think it is my background in manufacturing operations which make me believe the Sherman is much more impressive than any German tank out there. While the Panthers anf Tigers were good battletanks they had lots of breakdowns and repairs were not simple. Plus with all the German "variety" out there the manufacturing of tanks was never in full swing.
The Sherman on the other hand, was mass produced. Thousands of identical Shermans in a row to me is more impressive than a few sleek German tanks. The fact that the Sherman was used virtually the entire war with a few upgrades also impresses the hell out of me. Then every funny from bridge layer, crab, recovery, dozer, DD, wader, mine roller was made from a Sherman. According to an article in FSM Feb 2002, more than likely once a German tank was disabled it was out of the war whereas a Sherman was recovered, repair and released an average of 6 times because if its ease to maintain.
Like I said, perhaps it's my background in manufacturing operations that I think the simplistic Sherman is the most versatile tank, and that's what gets my attention.

Well not a lot I can add, but I am drawn to the German stuff for what I like to call the BOOGY MAN EFFECT. I also like the varirty of designs and color schemes. I will build Russian, American, and British just for a little variety in the display case. I also do modern stuff from all countries equally.

I think the attraction for the German armor is the fact that for the most part in a one on one situation, the German tanks were probably the better tanks. Of course you must consider which era of the war you look into. You can't compare a T34c to a PzKpfw I. What defeated the German armor was indeed the inability to mass produce the vehicles any where near the scale as to which we were able to do the M4's and the Soviets the T34 series. I don't know the numbers right off hand but I do know the Germans were at a distinct disadvantage in the number of AFV's compared to the allies. It was their inability to compete with the allies in production that was the German AFV down fall, not inferior product. Poor strategic planning on the part of their war ministry benefited us all. There is much that goes into this- our bombing , Allies gaining air superiority etc. The fact that the German technology was not able to overcome the Allied numerical advantage always bothered me as an M1 crewman in the eighties because we were also at a distinct numerical disadvantage to the Warsaw Pact countries.

I also enjoy modern US armor. Actually any armor is fine by me. I guess when it comes down to it I might have developed my fondness for the German armor playing Panzer Blitz and Panzer Leader. You see when I bought Panzer Blitz I didn't want to be the Soviets when my friend and I played. In turn he purchased Panzer Leader and would not allow me to be the Western Allies. So I guess I got familiar with the game vehicles and it just went from there. Boots and Saddles anyone?

German WW2 Armour appeals to me because its so different. Take a look at basically all the stuff produced by the allies in WW2 and the are all similar due to the lend lease agrements.

I get a bigger WOW factor when I see a nicely built Tiger than a nicely bult M4 etc.

Also most German items were far superior in terms of firepower to what the allies could throw at the axis. Only problem is the germans took so long and therefore produced so little amounts of the stuff.

I am building the Tamiya Half track just now and found the construction of the model easy apart from the darn wheels. I have built the Tamiya 1/16 RC tanks (King Tiger & M26 Pershing) and the Pershing was simple and easy to build but once again the wheels on the King Tiger complicate things. Also when I have friends round for a little "battle" in the background using the ace battle system sensor everybody wants the King Tiger!

It looks vastly more menacing than the Pershing.

Guess to sum up it just looks and is so much different!

Happy Building!

I agree with Indycopper about the "bogyman" effect. The grunts on the ground see the effect of the enemy's weapons and seems to think they are more lethal.

Also when I started modeling thirty four years ago, there were almost no WW2 1/35 allied armor available. The Tamiya Easy eight , M10 and M36 was about it. Woofers one and all!

Another thing that is fascinating about the German armor is that they made use of anything they could get thier hands on. The Czech 35(t)/ 38(t) as a gun tank and then modified into Panzerjagers. Plus StuGs, StuHs, Wespes, Hummels, Nashorns, and Hornisse. Then, the halftracks and armored cars. Plus ten to twenty versions of everything.

I don't just build the German models, I build US, British, Russian, Italian and Japanese. I enjoy them all.