Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
How many of you have partially built models..
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 03:20 PM UTC

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What are you looking to do with your panther camo? Stuck on it? It took me about a war to muster the courage to tackle the Terminator splinter camo. It’s the most complex one I’ve done to date.



Hi Krupp,

I am not plannin .....snipped for ease of reading.... debate, but that is easier to address than masking, at least in my opinion).

Guess I'm just a scaredy cat. Anyway, that's my issue



Maybe you just need to get that airbrush, some paint, masking materials and some scrap plastic and start practicing.
Masking for airbrush is not the same as masking for hairbrush.
Hairbrush: You either get that masking tape down tight on the surface, maybe even have to seal it with the masked colour, or you might as well not bother with masking at all.
Airbrush: Masking material tight against surface: hard edges
Masking material slightly off the surface: slightly feathered edges.
Masking material not on the model at all: feathered edges.
If you have a thin roll of "putty" loosely placed on the model and spray carefully along the edge you can get an almost hard edge. The straightness of the edge depends on the even thickness of the roll of putty.
Holding down a piece of paper against the surface will give you harder edges as long as you spray at an angle from the paper towards the surface i.e. avoid "aiming" the airbrush in under the edge of the paper.
The "hardness" of the edge depends on how smooth (non fuzzy) the masking material is as well as the distance between the edge and the painted surface. Greater distance allows more space for the spray to swirl around.

With a hairbrush you need masking that will stop fluid, with an airbrush the masking is more like creating a shadow, think of the spray from the airbrush as a beam of light (not 100% the same but a lot closer to beam of light than fluid from a hairbrush).

With an airbrush you can use masking tape, wet paper, rolls of "putty", wet string or thread, dry paper held in position with tape or sticky putty, dry strings or thread, cling film, tissue paper, basically anything that will stop the spray from hitting the surface underneath.
Come to think of it, gauze (as in bandages) or even fish-net stockings could produce interesting "camo" patterns.

The air pressure and amount of paint you let into the spray will affect the results so start experimenting with different masking materials and how you spray.
If all else fails there is always the possibility to correct small faults in hidden corners with the trusty old hairbrush.
If it is diffivult to reach with masking material it is probably also not in plain sight.
/ Robin

Edit: Papier mache but without the glue i.e. mash up newspaper paper or tissue paper with water to create something in between porridge and putty and stick it on the surface. Rinse with water afterwards.
Plain old clay from the great outdoors, use like putty, rinse off with water afterwards.
retiredyank
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Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 05:15 PM UTC
Far too many. I have an ambitious plan to finish four, this year.
sgtreef
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Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 05:22 PM UTC
Most won't believe this but none partial ones.
A dio that needs finishing, about all , for the M-110.
Now if you were to ask how long been doing that one, well a different deal there.



Cheers


Jeff
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Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 05:35 PM UTC
lots, mainly figures in some state of painting plus a couple of dioramas. ive also got a 1/96 frigate that's been in progress on and off for 5 years
a lot of the campaigns i enter on here are to give me the push to actually finish something.

one issue i also have is where to display them once finished
cabasner
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Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 09:28 PM UTC
@Matthew Lenton and Robin Nilsson: Thanks for your thoughts; actually, thanks to all of you who keep adding more info about this subject!

I'm thinking the points you made that EVERY model is progress toward making the next ones 'better' makes absolute sense. When you think about it, even for a moment, this is intuitively obvious. What I get out of this is that, while that fear of messing up the model you've spent so much time on up to this point will likely always be there, unless and until a model gets finished, it's not going to be displayed for anyone, including you, to see. I have to convince myself that even if I do something poorly, such as paint, it's not the end of the world. I can always build another one. No time like the present to get going. I think I'm going to try to work on finishing painting my Panther, and if I really mess it up to the point where it's beyond repair, well, there are all these new Panther models that have come out or are on their way, and then I'll have a justifiable reason to get one of the new ones! It is so very true that there are very few things that are irreplaceable. Yes, models are expensive these days, and getting increasingly so. But I've been fortunate to be able to get the models that I want, and replacements for disasters, while frustrating, wouldn't be the end of the world. All this to say that I'm learning that fear of failure shouldn't be one of the reasons to keep from finishing a model.

Several of you mentioned that at some point, making models has become like work, whereas the whole point was, at the start, enjoyment and fun. And it IS fun. While I want to please myself (and I don't plan on entering contests, anyway, so all I have to do is please ME), I'm not much of a taskmaster. If I finish one and don't like it, there are plenty more to come behind. I have 30-40 models to build right now. They are MY models. I can do with them what I want. I shouldn't be afraid to finish them. We'll have to see if I can turn all this philosophizing into the reality of finished tanks.

I really hope this turns out to be the case.
cabasner
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Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 09:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Most won't believe this but none partial ones.
A dio that needs finishing, about all , for the M-110.
Now if you were to ask how long been doing that one, well a different deal there.



Cheers


Jeff



I'm impressed
Neo
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Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 10:32 PM UTC
I have maybe...
Five.

Now that might not sound bad but that is 90% of the kits I have started in the last ten years !
Yes - if there was a xtra slow modeling award I would have a shelf full (could take the place of the unfinished models NO?).

barkingdigger
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Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 - 11:10 PM UTC
That's the spirit, Curt!

Another thing to remember is the tooling usually takes at least 10,000 shots to pay for itself, often with production runs closer to 100k models. And some of the older Tamiya tooling has clocked up nearer to 1m shots! That means even if you get it wrong several times in a row there's almost certainly at least one or two spare replacement kits out there to be had...

Avanti!
Petro
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Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 05:24 AM UTC
I have 1 kit that is unfinished at the moment. I started it 3 years ago maybe for a campaign. Between screw ups and poor research, i kind of stopped. In fact, i haven't done any building since. I have tried to do more work on it, over that time, but i usually break the part that i just remade after breaking the said part once before. ( or dump a bottle of liquid cement on it!) .
I would like to get back into it. I check out armorama usually every night. But just can't seem to make the time for it.
And my eyesight has gone to sh!t in the past two years!
jasegreene
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Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 06:02 AM UTC
I do have some myself.Some are waiting for aftermarket parts,some are just waiting because I don't have the time.
Eloranta
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Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 02:20 PM UTC
Let's see... I have 3 basically just waiting for primer, 3 in various stages of build. These are my active builds 2018 so six in total isn't that bad I have bit of painter's block currently but that doesn't affect much for building stuff, but if this goes on then I'll guess 2019 is nothing but painting&weathering
Bravo1102
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Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2018 - 07:32 PM UTC
So how many will grab a kit to do a couple of simple assemblies while waiting for something to dry?

And then totally forget about it and go through the stash later and discover kits you don't remember starting?

Usually when I'm stuck on a kit or hit a roadblock, I'll grab something totally else and start on it so I come across kits I forgot I started a lot.

I have over a dozen metal figures cleaned and primed; a half dozen 54mm Historex cavalry where I only did the horses; a Franco-Prussian War scene where I prepped all the Prussian figures but stopped at the doing the French and a half square of Highlanders for Waterloo where the infantry is done but I balked at doing the cross belts. In each case we're talking over a dozen figures re-positioned and filled and then thrown into cups or containers and put aside.
corsutton
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Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 12:51 AM UTC
I have too many to count that have some work done on them. I have one project that is actually really close to being finished, I just haven't worked on it, at all. I know that one thing that stops me on projects is painting. I really do not enjoy the painting part of modeling, I love building. I am fascinated by how the kit comes together and the detail I can add. Then there is painting, just not my thing.
cabasner
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Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 01:46 AM UTC

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I have too many to count that have some work done on them. I have one project that is actually really close to being finished, I just haven't worked on it, at all. I know that one thing that stops me on projects is painting. I really do not enjoy the painting part of modeling, I love building. I am fascinated by how the kit comes together and the detail I can add. Then there is painting, just not my thing.



I like both aspects. I like painting, actually, the more I do it, the better I like it. I'm just scared of masking for camo. I actually enjoy weathering, just that I'm not good at it. I just got the one replacement part I was waiting for on my Meng Merkava 3D Early, so now I'll be able to get started on that again. I got some new anti slip texture stuff that I've been anxious to try, but, honestly THAT scares me, too. That will probably be my next delay on the Merkava model, AGAIN!
Mrclark7
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Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 02:13 AM UTC
Im in the painting boat. The more I paint the more I want to try new ideas. And most builds take to much time to get to the scheme I want to try. I started buying the Meng Toon tanks so I could build faster and get to try the painting ideas to use on the better builds.
KruppCake
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Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 02:49 AM UTC

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What are you looking to do with your panther camo? Stuck on it? It took me about a war to muster the courage to tackle the Terminator splinter camo. It’s the most complex one I’ve done to date.



Hi Krupp,

I am not planning on anything special for my Panther, just a 'regular' tricolor dunkelgelb, green and brown. My problem isn't a specific color or pattern; my issue is how to do the masking. I have a bunch of poster putty, and I even bought a canister of Panzer Putty, I think it's called (the black Silly Putty like stuff that is purpose-made for masking). My issue is doing the masking over all the details. For example, on the left hand side of the upper hull, there is a long, thin tubular shaped item, which needs, per the kit instructions painting scheme, to have at least 2, or all 3 colors, painted on it in various places, and I'm simply not confident in being able to mask around that shape, and in many other cases, because this tank has so many sharp/pointy details, I'm afraid of using the masking putty because I think it will break or pull off the parts. Plus, being able to mask around many of the very 3D parts will be difficult to be able to do a good job of masking. I have yet to do a multi color camo paint job using masking; all of my tanks thus far have been single color, or freehand multi color camo. I don't have a particular need to do a specific camo pattern on this tank, but I DO need to learn how to do specific camo patterns and, to learn how to do hard edged camo, or, in some cases, slightly feathered edges. I'm simply afraid of the damage I may/will do to a build, that, up to this point, has ended up pretty decent, IMHO. I don't want to be limited to just single color tanks, though. I really want to do an M1A1 NATO color tank, and will also want to do an Australian M1A1 (both of which require specific camo shapes), and the Aussie M1A1 has slightly feathered transitions between colors. I don't want to feel limited in the tanks I build only because I can't paint them in the needed camo colors and patterns, but up to now, that is exactly what is causing a lot of my issues and finishing builds. Fortunately, many of my tanks are single colors, by definition. Many of my M1 Abrams tanks will be/are simply sand color, and I happen to have been drawn to a lot of IDF armor, which are one color (albeit, the one color for these vehicles is a source of huge debate, but that is easier to address than masking, at least in my opinion).

Guess I'm just a scaredy cat. Anyway, that's my issue



Hi Curt,

To add on to what Robin said in an earlier post, here’s how I do soft edge and hard edge camo:

Soft edge:

I dilute my paint of choice down to basically the consistency of water. I also add a drop or two of flow improver (The liquitex stuff) and then turn the operating PSI on the airbrush down to 8. Sometimes this doesn’t work as one intends if the nozzle is too large for such a low pressure and I increase the PSI to 10/11 if needed. Very thin paint and having the airbrush 1 cm or less to the model give you a soft edge line with a very tight overspray pattern, which should be more than satisfactory for 1/35 scale. If you need a very specific camo pattern, you can use an HB pencil to outline where you’d like to paint on the base coat before you start.

Hard edge:

A lot simpler than soft edge, though more tedious, doing the hard edge camo is relatively easy with either Tamiya masking tape or blue tack (Sticky tack but the blue one, not white). In general, you don’t have to worry about either lifting paint or pieces off if you take your time with tape removal and lift it basically at 90 degrees to the surface. One trick you can try is to roll a flat piece of the blue tack onto a non-stick surface and to cut out a shape that corresponds to your camo so you have less manual contact with the surface of the model while working.

Here are examples of hard edge and soft edge camos that I did:

Soft edge: https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/246281&page=1

The overspray is a little wider on this model because the ones painted in the field were very roughly done. You can modulate this with paint thickness and pressure. Higher AB off the surface = wider pattern.

Hard edge:

http://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/262614&ord=&page=1
cabasner
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Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 03:13 AM UTC
Hi Krupp! GREAT job on both of your models, but I REALLY liked the tan/green Pzr 2000 model...you did a fabulous camo job, and all the weathering was absolutely top notch! What you accomplished on both those guys is something I'd be happy to have on ANY model I might build, truly. Thanks for the tips...I'll certainly try to use them. I've also gotten most of the Mig Weathering magazines, and I love the photos that are taken of the models as they are being built/painted/weathered. Having videos are even more valuable, though.

I really liked kelly's idea of Toon tanks to complete builds quicker and get the painting stages. Really great idea! However, now that I have both Takom Merkava I and I Hybrid models, I'm actually thinking of building my Tamiya Merkava I tank, not doing any photo etch, and maybe even leaving off all the small details, and using it as a painting/weathering "test-bed".
Beastmaster
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Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 03:17 AM UTC
I'm afraid I've got quite a few unfinished ones too though hopefully most are within sight of being fairly completed. I don't just make tanks etc so things can get a bit complicated and strangely enough it's mainly tanks that need finishing with me (mainly the dreaded double Panzer wheels).

This year I've said to myself that it's a year of finishing as much as I can before starting anything else. That's my new years resolution anyway.
Lakota
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Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 04:46 AM UTC
The last time I bothered to count them I had about 25 in various stages from "started the cockpit" to "just need to add a little mud to finish the weathering" and everything in between. I don't worry too much about them anymore because I've made a resolution to move some shelf queens off the shelves and into the display case in 2018. And, have fun doing it.
Gary has taken on some of the "unbuilt" campaigns which I've joined or will join. The reason for the number of shelf queens? I didn't finish them in time for contests or campaigns or I simply got bored. I have about 600-800 kits to keep my interest changing constantly.
The boredom thing doesn't bother me too much because at some point I come back around and want to finish it for a different contest or campaign. I've found that working on two kits at a time is about my pace. Another problem is I'm a kitchen table builder and have a family. Lack of a proper building space and the usual family obligations hamper me. Not that I'm complaining because I love my family and kitchen table building lets me relax.
Don't be afraid to paint that Panther, no one ever gets it perfect the first few dozen times. We all have to do some touchup and glue parts back on after the fact.
Build on Brother,
Don "Lakota"
MLD
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Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 07:13 AM UTC


Hi, My name is mike and I've got a problem with unfinished models...

I've been a regular participant in the various Hangar Queen, Unfinished Business, Gettr Done campaigns around here and that's been a help in cutting down this pile.

My problem is a combination of the 'eyes bigger than the stomach', 'bit off more than I can chew' and 'ooohhh look a shiny new thing!' all rolled in with a big old case of modelers attention deficit and a busy adult life



I have shelf queens going back as far as 18 yrs. I started building a LOT when my son was born, building, but not painting at home so generally stopping on a build when the kit no longer fit into a closed box.

The plus side of this is of course that I always have a kit at just the stage I feel like working on at any given point. Basic construction, got 10. Masking and painting, easily another 10, weathing 15 or so, and if I feel like 497 teeny tiny stencil decals there are kits to work on there too.
cabasner
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Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 07:53 AM UTC

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I've found that working on two kits at a time is about my pace. Another problem is I'm a kitchen table builder and have a family. Lack of a proper building space and the usual family obligations hamper me. Not that I'm complaining because I love my family and kitchen table building lets me relax.
Don't be afraid to paint that Panther, no one ever gets it perfect the first few dozen times. We all have to do some touchup and glue parts back on after the fact.
Build on Brother,
Don "Lakota"



Don, thanks much for the encouraging words! My wife, angel that she is, got me to use the dining room in our house (right when we moved in, coming up on 4 years now) for a model room. It's not set up, formally, but I have all my tools, etc., in boxes scattered about the floor, but I know where everything is! Perhaps, one day, I'll bite the bullet and actually make it into a 'real' model room, with shelves and places to put everything. She hasn't ever complained, even when I bring modeling stuff out to the family room, so I can work while I'm with her.

I do, however, do my airbrush work on the kitchen counter, where the sink is. I'm sure that many of your wives would have a heart attack if you started using the kitchen sink as the spot to clean your airbrush, but it works out perfectly for me, and she is so tolerant it scares me. My compressor has an almost honorary semi-permanent location on the counter, though the rest of the airbrushing accoutrements (spelling?) get broken down most of the time, and removed, after spraying for the day.

We will see how the Panther goes...I"m getting more and more encouraged, because of all of you!
tybugg
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Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 10:30 AM UTC
I probably have as many unfinished kits as unstarted ones. About 25 or so. I have a hard time completing aircraft kits, because something always seems to go wrong (seams, paint, broken or missing parts). With car kits, it is usually the paint I mess up. I try sanding and polishing but seldom get it as good as I would like. I'm far better with armor kits. Most that I start I finish. I seem to get easily discouraged when I mess up a build, and sometimes it is just easier to move onto the next model. However, I have been thinking about revisiting a couple of my shelf queens. If I can just finish 1 or 2 of them, I'd be happy, and maybe It will spur me on to complete more of them.
vettejack
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Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 06:30 PM UTC

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I've found that working on two kits at a time is about my pace. Another problem is I'm a kitchen table builder and have a family. Lack of a proper building space and the usual family obligations hamper me. Not that I'm complaining because I love my family and kitchen table building lets me relax.
Don't be afraid to paint that Panther, no one ever gets it perfect the first few dozen times. We all have to do some touchup and glue parts back on after the fact.
Build on Brother,
Don "Lakota"



Don, thanks much for the encouraging words! My wife, angel that she is, got me to use the dining room in our house (right when we moved in, coming up on 4 years now) for a model room. It's not set up, formally, but I have all my tools, etc., in boxes scattered about the floor, but I know where everything is! Perhaps, one day, I'll bite the bullet and actually make it into a 'real' model room, with shelves and places to put everything. She hasn't ever complained, even when I bring modeling stuff out to the family room, so I can work while I'm with her.

I do, however, do my airbrush work on the kitchen counter, where the sink is. I'm sure that many of your wives would have a heart attack if you started using the kitchen sink as the spot to clean your airbrush, but it works out perfectly for me, and she is so tolerant it scares me. My compressor has an almost honorary semi-permanent location on the counter, though the rest of the airbrushing accoutrements (spelling?) get broken down most of the time, and removed, after spraying for the day.

We will see how the Panther goes...I"m getting more and more encouraged, because of all of you!



What!?? An air compressor can't be considered a kitchen appliance that can't blend right in with the coffee maker and can opener?? The humanity!!
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 06:57 PM UTC

Quoted Text


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...
I've found that working on two kits at a time is about my pace. Another problem is I'm a kitchen table builder and have a family. Lack of a proper building space and the usual family obligations hamper me. Not that I'm complaining because I love my family and kitchen table building lets me relax.
Don't be afraid to paint that Panther, no one ever gets it perfect the first few dozen times. We all have to do some touchup and glue parts back on after the fact.
Build on Brother,
Don "Lakota"



Don, thanks much for the encouraging words! My wife, angel that she is, got me to use the dining room in our house (right when we moved in, coming up on 4 years now) for a model room. It's not set up, formally, but I have all my tools, etc., in boxes scattered about the floor, but I know where everything is! Perhaps, one day, I'll bite the bullet and actually make it into a 'real' model room, with shelves and places to put everything. She hasn't ever complained, even when I bring modeling stuff out to the family room, so I can work while I'm with her.

I do, however, do my airbrush work on the kitchen counter, where the sink is. I'm sure that many of your wives would have a heart attack if you started using the kitchen sink as the spot to clean your airbrush, but it works out perfectly for me, and she is so tolerant it scares me. My compressor has an almost honorary semi-permanent location on the counter, though the rest of the airbrushing accoutrements (spelling?) get broken down most of the time, and removed, after spraying for the day.

We will see how the Panther goes...I"m getting more and more encouraged, because of all of you!



What!?? An air compressor can't be considered a kitchen appliance that can't blend right in with the coffee maker and can opener?? The humanity!!



One of the main reasons for running the airbrush on CO2 is that the setup, with a little fixing and trixing, could service as soda machine

/ Robin
firstcircle
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Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 - 07:11 PM UTC
Yeah, wow, I'm really not sure you should be spray painting in the kitchen, not that I want to discourage you or interfere with your domestic arrangements.

It is nice to hear all these thoughts on modelling, I too am a dining table builder, though spray painting gets done in the garage. I have co-opted a good deal of the storage space in the dining room, so it all gets put away - except the mini photo backdrop on top of the cupboard + all the built models behind the glass doors

I think wives (or whatever...) can be happy that at least it's a hobby that isn't too expensive (compared to say cars, motorbikes, boats) and doesn't keep you out all weekend (on 100 mile cycle rides, golf, away football matches, etc.) It's quite domesticated actually.