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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
How to apply a wash ?
screamingeagle
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Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2002 - 09:27 AM UTC
HEY TREAD .........I do .............I do - wait only 10 sec's ( LOL !!!! )
No , actually I give a full 72 hrs "dry & cure " time.
I once tried a wash after 24 hrs and "I bet I don't have to tell you
what happened " !
Yes, I guess we went to that same school Tread. It's really amazing
what you can learn from research. Even though I broke off from
the hobby for 17 years, I still kept myself involved with W.W.II book's, and
video documentaries. I'm sure you know that "it seem's as if there's something
new to learn all the time ".....I'm also amazed on how there's never a shortage
of book's that still come out on battles, armor, soldier biographies, etc. of
the W.W.II Era - I LOVE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My summer is going great, thanks for asking .....................I hope your
Summer is going equally well - Yes ?
"I'll see you in school "
- ralph
screamingeagle
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Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Saturday, July 06, 2002 - 09:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Perhaps you misunderstood me, Tread. I'm certainly in no race and, as a history major in university, I love to do research on these things. What I did mean was that I sometimes get a little impatient while I'm building the model and can't help but paint two colours in one day sometimes. Plus, I have to do my airbrushing outside, so I like to take advantage of calm weather. What I am trying to do now is work on a few models at the same time so while I wait for one to dry and cure, I can work on another. I guess I just have too much fun modeling, if that's possible.

Nic


Hi Nic - Hey, along's your having fun and enjoy what your doing ....
............THAT'S WHAT REALLY COUNTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- ralph
TreadHead
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 12, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, July 07, 2002 - 12:26 AM UTC
[quotePerhaps you misunderstood me, Tread. I'm certainly in no race and, as a history major in university, I love to do research on these things. What I did mean was that I sometimes get a little impatient while I'm building the model and can't help but paint two colours in one day sometimes. Plus, I have to do my airbrushing outside, so I like to take advantage of calm weather. What I am trying to do now is work on a few models at the same time so while I wait for one to dry and cure, I can work on another. I guess I just have too much fun modeling, if that's possible.

Nic[/quote]

Makes absolute sense Folgore. Especially considering your situation. I'm very glad it all works for you. You apparently have better 'juggling' talents than I do.
All I was stating is that I tend to generally take my time and 'enjoy the ride' that's all.
And if I may paraphrase you. " ...have too much fun modeling,..." Are you kidding? That's exactly what it's all about!!

Tread.

Happy Modeling. :-)
TreadHead
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Sunday, July 07, 2002 - 12:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

HEY TREAD .........I do .............I do - wait only 10 sec's ( LOL !!!! )
No , actually I give a full 72 hrs "dry & cure " time.
I once tried a wash after 24 hrs and "I bet I don't have to tell you
what happened " !
[b]Yes, I guess we went to that same school Tread. It's really amazing
what you can learn from research. Even though I broke off from
the hobby for 17 years, I still kept myself involved with W.W.II book's, and
video documentaries. I'm sure you know that "it seem's as if there's something
new to learn all the time ".....I'm also amazed on how there's never a shortage
of book's that still come out on battles, armor, soldier biographies, etc. of
the W.W.II Era - I LOVE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My summer is going great, thanks for asking .....................I hope your
Summer is going equally well - Yes ?
"I'll see you in school "
- ralph[/b]


LOL......glad to hear you switched to 72hrs!

About the "never a shortage" statement. You're right, it is surprising. But it seems that there has recently been an enlarged supply of material. Maybe because of films like 'Saving Private Ryan', maybe because of the recent reawakening of America spirit after 9/11, or just maybe because we're realizing that the Veterans and participants of that era are dying before our very eyes! The 'Greatest Generation' are becoming fewer and farther between.....alas.
Even the 'Nam doesn't seem to be as 'off-limits' a subject matter as it used to be.
Good news for us all in my humble opinion...

Tread.
sniper
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New York, United States
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Posted: Sunday, July 07, 2002 - 11:02 PM UTC
Of course I too agree with the need for research and trying to be accurate. I mean, why else would one be in the hobby if it weren't for love of history. That's the fun part, learning new things and trying to bring that to your replica and maybe then to the people who see it.

That's neither old school or new school (whatever those terms mean).

To get back to the original point of disagreement, I would like to know if anyone has any proof (facts ) that there is a need to wait 48 or more hours between a coat of acrylics and a wash.

I'm not trying to say that it has anything to do with impatience. For me, the fun of the hobby really starts when the airbrush comes out and the finishing begins. I tend to spend much more time painting and weathering than any other step.

But, if there is no "physical" problem with this "quick" method I have no qualms about doing it. I've never had acrylic paint lift from a Tirpinoid wash. And I've done some heavy washes!

That doesn't mean I wont put a model down for a few days and pick it up again when inspiration strikes or I get some big idea.

Usually I have a few projects in various stages of (un)completness, so I have things to work on.

Steve
screamingeagle
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Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2002 - 10:06 PM UTC
Hi Sniper - I can't speak for acrylics, but I can for enamels.
Like I said, I apply solvent-base washes directly over enamel finishes, without
any protective clear coats.
I always make sure I let the enamel dry & cure for 72 hrs, to be safe.
I once ( like I told Tread ) experimented and let the enamel finish only dry for 24 hours,
applied the solvent-base wash, and had disasterous results - PAINT LIFT & SEPERATION, right down through the primer coat. So that's why I now wait 72 hrs.
Mind you, that I also don't start playing around with the wash either, after it's appplied.
I just let it take it's course and take -up the excess with a brush. And If a second wash or more is needed, I always wait for the previous one to dry completely. .......................
.................." Patience has it's rewards ".
As far as your question with acrylic's. I would think as long as their water based and not
solvent based as Polly Scale, that a full 24 hrs would be sufficient time to give before
adding a solvent-based wash.
- ralph
Roadkill
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Antwerpen, Belgium
Joined: June 09, 2002
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2002 - 10:34 PM UTC
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The first time I used a washed on my model it eat away to my primer :-(

That was 2 months ago, now I have given it a new try, but this time I prayed the model using Future (JonhsonWax Sols Plus here in Belgium).

The base paint is enamel and the wash is Oil + turpentine (I just can't work with acrylics - always clogging op my airbrush)

And what do ye now!!! I has eaten right thru my basecoat again. MAN, I think I’l never paint again!

What the hell is going wrong?????????
#:-) #:-) #:-)
GunTruck
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California, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Monday, July 08, 2002 - 10:52 PM UTC
Ronny - I think the Turpentine is your problem here. It attacks Future - even when cured. Nasty stuff that is.

If you're going to perform an Oil Wash, switch to Turpenoid as your carrier. It is a much milder solution and does not attack acrylics like Tamiya paints or Future floor finish.

Gunnie
sniper
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New York, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 12:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Ronny - I think the Turpentine is your problem here. It attacks Future - even when cured. Nasty stuff that is.

If you're going to perform an Oil Wash, switch to Turpenoid as your carrier. It is a much milder solution and does not attack acrylics like Tamiya paints or Future floor finish.

Gunnie


Yes, get rid of that Turpentine! Maybe use it to wash your brushes or something. That is really too strong a solvent.

You will get great results with Turpinoid or White Spirits. They will also smell better! But, you still need to make sure you have good ventilation.

Some people will use very dilluted water colors for washes. I have not tried this seriously but it is safe (you could probably drink the stuff ) and if you dont like the results clean it off with water.

Steve
Red4
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 12:49 AM UTC
For Roadkill,
Like the others said, drop the turpentine as its definately too strong. For my wshes I use Testors brush cleaner/ paint thinner. Its not too strong and it flows well over the Future without reacting with it either. Are you applying a full wash (ie, over the whole vehicle) or just along panel lines and such? "Q"
Roadkill
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Antwerpen, Belgium
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 01:08 AM UTC
I use a full wash, I know I know selective wash would be better, but hey I am new at this, so I thought to give a full wash a go and when I would be better at this then using selective wash.

I can't find Turpenoid but White Spirit is no problem, however, according to the salesman, White Spirit is Stronger then Turpentine?!? #:-)
sniper
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New York, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 01:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text


I can't find Turpenoid but White Spirit is no problem, however, according to the salesman, White Spirit is Stronger then Turpentine?!? #:-)


Don't take my word, but I think they are about the same. Just test what you are using first.

Steve
GunTruck
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 01:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I use a full wash, I know I know selective wash would be better, but hey I am new at this, so I thought to give a full wash a go and when I would be better at this then using selective wash.

I can't find Turpenoid but White Spirit is no problem, however, according to the salesman, White Spirit is Stronger then Turpentine?!? #:-)


Ronny - I'm a little leery of the White Spirits too. Here is a link to where you can order Turpenoid:

http://aswexpress.com/turturnat.html

Gunnie

sniper
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New York, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 - 02:18 AM UTC

I can get Turpinoid in the craft section of Wal-Mart. Not sure if they have those in Belgium yet!

You may want to go to an art store and ask. It might go by some other name.

Steve
screamingeagle
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Connecticut, United States
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Posted: Saturday, July 13, 2002 - 03:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

For Roadkill,
Like the others said, drop the turpentine as its definately too strong. For my wshes I use Testors brush cleaner/ paint thinner. Its not too strong and it flows well over the Future without reacting with it either. Are you applying a full wash (ie, over the whole vehicle) or just along panel lines and such? "Q"


I have to agree with Red4 - Testors Thinner/brush cleaner works great as a wash with
oil's or any other enamels.
However - Don't confuse this with Testors Airbrush Thinner which is not to be used for washes. It is far to stronger than the regular Testors Enamel Thinner.
This comes from a bad experience using Testors Airbrush Thinner as a wash, and also from "Do's & Don't 's " that I received from TheTestor Corporation.
......Also as Gunnie said, Turpenoid work's very good with oils also.
I keep both of these thinners in on my table and extra in stock.
Also any cheap brand of Mineral Spirit's can also be used - brands such as " Sunnyside " and " Kleer " are ok' to use, but I mostly use these to clean my brushes

- ralph
Benno
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Australia
Joined: December 01, 2001
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Posted: Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 05:29 PM UTC
Yeah i used Turps once, and it was on individual link tracks, the bloody tracks all fell apart.

I can't remember it might have been Turps or Metho...?

It melted the glue in between the tracks. I now use Low odour oil paint thinners, it is very gentle and drys matt, someone on a msg board recommended it to me, never looked back since

I use a Tamiya paint coat, and put a clear finish over the top and its goes on like a treat think and thin, not to mention random brush strokes never touch the under coat.
Roadkill
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Antwerpen, Belgium
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Posted: Sunday, July 14, 2002 - 06:11 PM UTC
Hi, me again, hehehe

Ok, I could not find the testors thinner, so I went to my local arts store and got a bottle of oil medium (quick drying). And YAHOOOO, the wash did not attack my basecoat!

But .... quick drying?!? No way, I did my wash on Thursday and now (Monday) it still feels sticky. Is there a way to speed up the drying time.

I tried the 100W lamp and hair blower technique, but not much result.

Damn I am a real rookie
Benno
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Australia
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Posted: Monday, July 15, 2002 - 03:44 PM UTC
lol, that sucks, i used linseed oil once as well, took about 3 weeks to dry...damm

Low odour thinners drys in one day...best stuff :-)
SS-74
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Vatican City
Joined: May 13, 2002
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Posted: Monday, July 15, 2002 - 03:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi, me again, hehehe

Ok, I could not find the testors thinner, so I went to my local arts store and got a bottle of oil medium (quick drying). And YAHOOOO, the wash did not attack my basecoat!

But .... quick drying?!? No way, I did my wash on Thursday and now (Monday) it still feels sticky. Is there a way to speed up the drying time.

I tried the 100W lamp and hair blower technique, but not much result.

Damn I am a real rookie


Once I washed my model, I turn on air conditioner to high cool, the thing got dried in less than 3 hours, I mean it's a freezing three hours, but I can handle the washed model in a short period of time. So it works out alright.

Urquhart
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Portugal
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Posted: Monday, July 15, 2002 - 04:56 PM UTC
You`ll have to coat your model witha a good layer of varnish and set aside to dry completely.Then prepare a mixture of 80 to 90% turpentine and 20 to 10% oil and with a big rounded blush cover the entire model (it should take about 30 seconds to cover a 1:35 scale model).Don´t forget to take the excess mixture of your brush in the container you are using before you aplly the wash.
Eagle
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Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Joined: May 22, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 01:38 AM UTC
I did the wild thing and applied the first wash of my life.... hey that didnt turn out that bad at all.

I was wondering about the percentages you all mention. Is it an estimation thing, or do you guys measure the components before butting them together ? I mean 10 % of paint on just 9 ml of thinning fluid, that's something like "add nothing to something" to me ?

Just was wondering how you approached that ?
TreadHead
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Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 07:17 AM UTC
Drops...
TreadHead
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Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 07:19 AM UTC
Or you can use measuring ampules. All you need is some sort of measuring 'touchstone'.

Tread.
TreadHead
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Posted: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 - 07:23 AM UTC
Ya know, after re-reading through this thread, I have come to the conclusion that I must be the most cautious model painter this side of OZ!!


Tread.
HellaYella
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Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 12:47 AM UTC
I feel stupid asking but can u do a wash with rubbing (isopropyl) alcohol..what is the purpose of a wash? I know that weathering means the effects of temperature etc on an object..what is washing...Can someone illustrate exactly?
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