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Help with Cockerill 90 mm cannon
Silantra
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Putrajaya, Malaysia
Joined: March 04, 2004
KitMaker: 2,511 posts
Armorama: 913 posts
Posted: Friday, March 12, 2004 - 03:04 PM UTC
Hallo all...

i want to scatchbuild the 90mm gun for my scorpion that resemble Malaysian Scorpion. I have ask a few DG but could find any source for the gun specs. I even email CMI for the specs but uptill now, they still havent reply my email. If anyone here have the specs or anyone can help me with the right sources to ask for the Cockerill 90mm specs.

thanks
Silantra
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Putrajaya, Malaysia
Joined: March 04, 2004
KitMaker: 2,511 posts
Armorama: 913 posts
Posted: Monday, March 15, 2004 - 09:36 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Silantra;

Verlinden did sell a 90mm gun version of the Cadillac Gage V-150 Commando armored vehicle that was equipped with the Cockerill 90mm gun that looked like this vehicle in the attached image:

It appears that you are looking for the same type weapon for your project. The CMI home page has some information and images available at the following link for both versions of the Cockerill 90mm gun: http://www.cmi.be/defence/prodse_en.htm

Hope this is of some use for your project,



thanks for the reply sir...
i already contact CMI for weapon specs...but they havent reply.....i've seen the photo in the CMI website so many times....

perhaps i can ask someone during my visit at DSA 2004.

cheers
Gr8_Humpback
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France
Joined: March 16, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 02:12 AM UTC
Hello everybody, I'm new here
I'm not a kit modeler, but a virtual (3D CG) modeler. Nevertheless, all the references used for kit modeling are also usefull for 3D modeling.
Now, back to the question. Here are some infos about the Cockerill MkIII 90mm gun :

Description
In 1974, the Seraing-based Cockerill company decided to re-enter the defence market by producing a 90 mm gun system suitable for light and medium tanks and armoured cars. [...]. The MarkIII MA1 was introduced in 1986 and has a single-baffle muzzle brake (for firing APFSDS-T projectiles).[...]
All three Marks are similar in that they are manufactured from a special electro-slag refined (ESR) steel, are light, and use a wide range of ammunition.[...] The Mark III gun has a breech mechanism for re-cocking in case of misfire; [...].Other improvements with the Mark III include the reduction of recoil forces from 13000 kg to 8500 kg and the introduction of an improve ESR steel to lessen the incidence of barrel cracking. The recoil mechanism is hydroconcentric using two concentric springs, a light but very effective system wich enables the large-caliber gun to be mounted in vehicles weighing as little as 7 tons.

Specifications

CALIBRE : 90 mm
LENGTH :

  • overall 3506 mm
  • barrel 3248 mm
  • rifling 2873 mm
  • chamber 375 mm
  • recoil 300 mm

WEIGHT :

  • total 456 kg
  • recoiling mass 270 kg
  • barrel 135.5 kg
  • breech, complete 97.6 kg
  • muzzle brake 12.5 kg

NUMBER OF RIFLING GROOVES : 60
ANGLING OF RIFLING : 20' right pitch
MAX RANGE :

  • HEAT 2400 m (effective 1500 m)
  • HESH 1500 m (effective 1200 m)
  • HEAT-TP 1500 m
  • HE APERS-FRAG 6000 m
  • Canister 250 m

MUZZLE VELOCITY :

  • HEAT-T 900 m/s
  • HEAT, heavy 700 m/s
  • HESH 800 m/s
  • HE 700 m/s
  • Smoke 695 m/s
  • HEAT-TP 890/700 m/s
  • HE APERS-FRAG 320 m/s
  • Canister 200 m/s
  • APFSDS-T 1140 m/s


Source : Jane's AFV Retrofit Systems 1992-93
Hope it helps.
ptruhe
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Texas, United States
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 2,092 posts
Armorama: 1,607 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 02:33 AM UTC
Thanks for the specs Gr8_Humpback. Now if someone has the Cadillac Gage V-150 Commando kit and can give us some OD measurements on the barrel that would be great.

Paul
Silantra
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Putrajaya, Malaysia
Joined: March 04, 2004
KitMaker: 2,511 posts
Armorama: 913 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 01:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello everybody, I'm new here
I'm not a kit modeler, but a virtual (3D CG) modeler. Nevertheless, all the references used for kit modeling are also usefull for 3D modeling.
Now, back to the question. Here are some infos about the Cockerill MkIII 90mm gun :

Description
In 1974, the Seraing-based Cockerill company decided to re-enter the defence market by producing a 90 mm gun system suitable for light and medium tanks and armoured cars. [...]. The MarkIII MA1 was introduced in 1986 and has a single-baffle muzzle brake (for firing APFSDS-T projectiles).[...]
All three Marks are similar in that they are manufactured from a special electro-slag refined (ESR) steel, are light, and use a wide range of ammunition.[...] The Mark III gun has a breech mechanism for re-cocking in case of misfire; [...].Other improvements with the Mark III include the reduction of recoil forces from 13000 kg to 8500 kg and the introduction of an improve ESR steel to lessen the incidence of barrel cracking. The recoil mechanism is hydroconcentric using two concentric springs, a light but very effective system wich enables the large-caliber gun to be mounted in vehicles weighing as little as 7 tons.

Specifications

CALIBRE : 90 mm
LENGTH :

  • overall 3506 mm
  • barrel 3248 mm
  • rifling 2873 mm
  • chamber 375 mm
  • recoil 300 mm

WEIGHT :

  • total 456 kg
  • recoiling mass 270 kg
  • barrel 135.5 kg
  • breech, complete 97.6 kg
  • muzzle brake 12.5 kg

NUMBER OF RIFLING GROOVES : 60
ANGLING OF RIFLING : 20' right pitch
MAX RANGE :

  • HEAT 2400 m (effective 1500 m)
  • HESH 1500 m (effective 1200 m)
  • HEAT-TP 1500 m
  • HE APERS-FRAG 6000 m
  • Canister 250 m

MUZZLE VELOCITY :

  • HEAT-T 900 m/s
  • HEAT, heavy 700 m/s
  • HESH 800 m/s
  • HE 700 m/s
  • Smoke 695 m/s
  • HEAT-TP 890/700 m/s
  • HE APERS-FRAG 320 m/s
  • Canister 200 m/s
  • APFSDS-T 1140 m/s


Source : Jane's AFV Retrofit Systems 1992-93
Hope it helps.



WOW...goood info Gr8...
this surely helps me...
as Corporal ptruhe mentioned, an OD specs would complete the spec....

but pls excuse me for these stupid question ...can anyone tell me what is :

1. rifling
2. chamber
3. recoil

ok then...thanks once again for the marvelous info...



ptruhe
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Texas, United States
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 2,092 posts
Armorama: 1,607 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 03:02 AM UTC
Silantra,

I'm no cannon expert but here's my best attempt to answer your questions.

1. rifling - portion of the barrel that is rifled to impart spin to the shell. Not sure if chamber is included in barrel length but rifling length should be close to barrel length minus the muzzle brake.
2. chamber - Portion of the cannon where the projectile & charge are loaded with the breech closing behind it.
3. recoil - amount the cannon travels backward when fired.

Might be a good question for the ML gang.

Paul

Silantra
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Putrajaya, Malaysia
Joined: March 04, 2004
KitMaker: 2,511 posts
Armorama: 913 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 04:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Silantra,

I'm no cannon expert but here's my best attempt to answer your questions.

1. rifling - portion of the barrel that is rifled to impart spin to the shell. Not sure if chamber is included in barrel length but rifling length should be close to barrel length minus the muzzle brake.
2. chamber - Portion of the cannon where the projectile & charge are loaded with the breech closing behind it.
3. recoil - amount the cannon travels backward when fired.

Might be a good question for the ML gang.

Paul




thanks corporal...
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